News Article: Jimmy D. : "Red Wings won't 'sit back' in attempt to rebuild"

[Shaman464]

Signing Karlsson to a 12x7 contract is a no brainer. He is a dynamic player that has shown he can carry a team. Adding Karlsson and a top 5 pick should set this team on a direct path to contender status.

****, I’d consider a max contract for Ek.

Ew. No way they should pay EK 12 million that long into his 30s.

 

[Winger98]

you mean when he was in his mid 30s and won a Norris? the horror

who was still dealt because he was too weak defensively and physically in a changing game. give us a Lidstrom and Konstantinov to balance his run and gun tendencies and I'd be more up for it. But that's sort of my point: Karlsson isn't the sort of all-around horse that a Lidstrom or Pronger were. He's fun to watch, but so is PK Subban. I'd rather have Roman Josi.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Karlsson threads are always an amusing read,i've never seen someone with 2 Norris trophies(that could very easily have 4 Norris trophies) at the age of 28 get so much hate

you mean when he was in his mid 30s and won a Norris? the horror

Also the year he was terrible in the Finals and sealed his fate on the Wings. Bowman said he couldn't win with Coffey and traded his ass.

Not loving Karlsson under all conditions doesn't mean it's hate.

 

[SirloinUB]

Ew. No way they should pay EK 12 million that long into his 30s.

Honestly, at 12 million, we could see that kind of money offset on cap increases alone. I would think with Vegas joining the fold, Seattle around the corner we could see a cap in excess of 90 million in 2 or 3 years. And with things like further expansion (Houston?), esports and gambling having a secondary impact on the brand that kind of 10-11 million increase on the cap could very well be a modest guess.

The wings actually have a really solid cap situation moving forward with a lot of space opening over the next 2 summers.

I think a 12 million dollar contract for a talent like Karlsson is manageable.

 

[Flowah]

Here's a "crazy" idea.

Quennville was just let go. Do the Wings move quickly on him and let Blash go?

 

[ricky0034]

Also the year he was terrible in the Finals and sealed his fate on the Wings. Bowman said he couldn't win with Coffey and traded his ass.

Not loving Karlsson under all conditions doesn't mean it's hate.

so because he had a single bad 4 game series(a series where he was far from the only bad one,that's how you get swept) in a year where he won the Norris AND still ended up finishing second on the team in Playoff points after only Fedorov the game "passed him by"?

talk about histrionics

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Here's a "crazy" idea.

Quennville was just let go. Do the Wings move quickly on him and let Blash go?

I dont think they will. I have a feeling that Q will not be intrested in a rebuilding team.
The Wings also seem committed to Blash this year, perhaps for draft ranking purposes.
But if Q wanted to come here the brass should absolutely hire him on and fire Blash.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

so because he had a single bad 4 game series(a series where he was far from the only bad one,that's how you get swept) in a year where he won the Norris AND still ended up finishing second on the team in Playoff points after only Fedorov the game "passed him by"?

talk about histrionics

Feel free to quote me where I said the game passed him by. Or that it was because of a single bad game.

Coffey's lack of commitment to defense is why Bowman got rid of him and basically said that they couldn't win a Cup with Coffey and that they won in Pittsburgh in spite of him. Four teams made the finals or won a Cup the year after they traded Paul Coffey.

 

[ricky0034]

Feel free to quote me where I said the game passed him by. Or that it was because of a single bad game.

Coffey's lack of commitment to defense is why Bowman got rid of him and basically said that they couldn't win a Cup with Coffey and that they won in Pittsburgh in spite of him. Four teams made the finals or won a Cup the year after they traded Paul Coffey.

the guy I was quoting when you quoted me said "I've seen the guy compared to Paul Coffey, but I remember Coffey in Detroit when the game had shifted and his game hadn't",I literally bolded it

and you said that he was terrible in the finals

four teams made the finals or won the cup after trading Coffey? talk about reaching for a point,seven teams made the finals or won a cup with Coffey it's called playing on good teams

just because Bowman was a good coach doesn't mean he was perfect,didn't he want to trade Yzerman at one point too? and he didn't exactly do a great job as Buffalo's GM either,coaches have types of players they like same as anyone else

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

the guy I was quoting when you quoted me said "I've seen the guy compared to Paul Coffey, but I remember Coffey in Detroit when the game had shifted and his game hadn't",I literally bolded it

and you said that he was terrible in the finals

four teams made the finals or won the cup after trading Coffey? talk about reaching for a point,seven teams made the finals or won a cup with Coffey it's called playing on good teams

just because Bowman was a good coach doesn't mean he was perfect,didn't he want to trade Yzerman at one point too? and he didn't exactly do a great job as Buffalo's GM either,coaches have types of players they like same as anyone else

He was terrible in the Finals. I still never said the game had left him behind.

My point about him being traded is it's not like he was always an essential piece to all those Cups. Teams still succeeded by trading him.

How they hell did we get on this major Paul Coffey detour anyway?

 

[Reddwit]

You'd think some of you would have learned your lesson when decrying adding legitimate stars to the roster.

Have you not seen what happens when you pass up the opportunity to add a legitimate star because of the monetary cost?? You get Danny Dekeyser at $5M til he's 33. You get Jonathan Ericsson at $4.8M* til he can no longer skate. You pay Frans Nielsen $5.5M for six years til he's 38. You give Jonathan Abdelkader a lifetime deal.

Yes, Karlsson will very well cost $12M. He may even cost $13M. But you know what that means?

It means you don't get to have Kyle Quincey for $4.8M*
It means you don't get the luxury of signing Bernier to a 3x3 deal.
It means you don't get to the honor of paying a 35 year-old Brad Richards $3.3M*
It means you have to choose between Abdelkader and Helm and ship the other off at the deadline.
It means you have to give up on Brendan Smith sooner than expected and pass on giving him $3M*
It means you have to think twice about giving Stephen Weiss $6M*
It means you can't give Dan Cleary his a yearly salary for merely existing.
It means you can't give everyone on your team an NTC because - hey! - you might have to trade a mediocre player even though you treat him like your firstborn.

In short, it means you end up paying and treating depth players like they're depth players. God forbid.

And before anyone accuses me of being biased, I absolutely agree with the concerns about Karlsson's injury history and the criticisms of his defensive acumen, but that's part of the trade-off with a free agent star. You aren't going to get good contract value for them but their organizational value is potentially immeasurable, and that's especially the case where the free agent star is the type of player you desperately need, as in this case.

*in today's cap dollars (so as to make comparisons between $12-13M in today's cap dollars more genuine)

 

[izlez]

You'd think some of you would have learned your lesson when decrying adding legitimate stars to the roster.

Have you not seen what happens when you pass up the opportunity to add a legitimate star because of the monetary cost?? You get Danny Dekeyser at $5M til he's 33. You get Jonathan Ericsson at $4.8M* til he can no longer skate. You pay Frans Nielsen $5.5M for six years til he's 38. You give Jonathan Abdelkader a lifetime deal.

Yes, Karlsson will very well cost $12M. He may even cost $13M. But you know what that means?

It means you don't get to have Kyle Quincey for $4.8M*
It means you don't get the luxury of signing Bernier to a 3x3 deal.
It means you don't get to the honor of paying a 35 year-old Brad Richards $3.3M*
It means you have to choose between Abdelkader and Helm and ship the other off at the deadline.
It means you have to give up on Brendan Smith sooner than expected and pass on giving him $3M*
It means you have to think twice about giving Stephen Weiss $6M*
It means you can't give Dan Cleary his a yearly salary for merely existing.
It means you can't give everyone on your team an NTC because - hey! - you might have to trade a mediocre player even though you treat him like your firstborn.

In short, it means you end up paying and treating depth players like they're depth players. God forbid.

And before anyone accuses me of being biased, I absolutely agree with the concerns about Karlsson's injury history and the criticisms of his defensive acumen, but that's part of the trade-off with a free agent star. You aren't going to get good contract value for them but their organizational value is potentially immeasurable, and that's especially the case where the free agent star is the type of player you desperately need, as in this case.

*in today's cap dollars (so as to make comparisons between $12-13M in today's cap dollars more genuine)

I agree with your sentiment that these are the type of players you end up with... I don't think we've exactly passed up on star players... they just don't actually hit UFA (I think Karlsson reaching UFA is still a stretch)

Quincey/Neilsen/Green/Bernier are pretty much grade-A free agents, though they are far from grade-A players

 

[Frk It]

You'd think some of you would have learned your lesson when decrying adding legitimate stars to the roster.

Have you not seen what happens when you pass up the opportunity to add a legitimate star because of the monetary cost?? You get Danny Dekeyser at $5M til he's 33. You get Jonathan Ericsson at $4.8M* til he can no longer skate. You pay Frans Nielsen $5.5M for six years til he's 38. You give Jonathan Abdelkader a lifetime deal.

Yes, Karlsson will very well cost $12M. He may even cost $13M. But you know what that means?

It means you don't get to have Kyle Quincey for $4.8M*
It means you don't get the luxury of signing Bernier to a 3x3 deal.
It means you don't get to the honor of paying a 35 year-old Brad Richards $3.3M*
It means you have to choose between Abdelkader and Helm and ship the other off at the deadline.
It means you have to give up on Brendan Smith sooner than expected and pass on giving him $3M*
It means you have to think twice about giving Stephen Weiss $6M*
It means you can't give Dan Cleary his a yearly salary for merely existing.
It means you can't give everyone on your team an NTC because - hey! - you might have to trade a mediocre player even though you treat him like your firstborn.

In short, it means you end up paying and treating depth players like they're depth players. God forbid.

And before anyone accuses me of being biased, I absolutely agree with the concerns about Karlsson's injury history and the criticisms of his defensive acumen, but that's part of the trade-off with a free agent star. You aren't going to get good contract value for them but their organizational value is potentially immeasurable, and that's especially the case where the free agent star is the type of player you desperately need, as in this case.

*in today's cap dollars (so as to make comparisons between $12-13M in today's cap dollars more genuine)

I don’t think it should be a given that you spend to the cap every year, no matter what.

You should only spend to the cap when you can do so responsibly, not if it involves stockpiling negative equity. I mean hell, we shed Datsyuk’s contract to spend money on Helm/Nielsen/Dekeyser.

So I can’t buy into this 100%. Having cap space makes stupid contracts more tempting, but it doesn’t mean you should do it. All that said, I wouldn’t be opposed to signing Karlsson even if it involves overpaying, but I very much doubt we have any appeal on that front.

 

[SCD]

I agree with your sentiment that these are the type of players you end up with... I don't think we've exactly passed up on star players... they just don't actually hit UFA (I think Karlsson reaching UFA is still a stretch)

Quincey/Neilsen/Green/Bernier are pretty much grade-A free agents, though they are far from grade-A players

Grade-A free agents are grade-A players. Over paying a UFA doesn't make him grade-A.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don’t think it should be a given that you spend to the cap every year, no matter what.

You should only spend to the cap when you can do so responsibly, not if it involves stockpiling negative equity. I mean hell, we shed Datsyuk’s contract to spend money on Helm/Nielsen/Dekeyser.

So I can’t buy into this 100%. Having cap space makes stupid contracts more tempting, but it doesn’t mean you should do it. All that said, I wouldn’t be opposed to signing Karlsson even if it involves overpaying, but I very much doubt we have any appeal on that front.

I also think important to that is our history as a big spender. People won't debate if the Wings aren't at the cap whether or not they are that kind of team. I mean especially since we still capped out post Mike Ilitch even when we maybe should not have. So I don't even fear players wondering. We maintain big boy status regardless which makes this an even lower risk move than some organizations have to worry about in my opinion.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

You give Jonathan Abdelkader a lifetime deal.

um, who?!?

 

[kliq]

the guy I was quoting when you quoted me said "I've seen the guy compared to Paul Coffey, but I remember Coffey in Detroit when the game had shifted and his game hadn't",I literally bolded it

and you said that he was terrible in the finals

four teams made the finals or won the cup after trading Coffey? talk about reaching for a point,seven teams made the finals or won a cup with Coffey it's called playing on good teams

just because Bowman was a good coach doesn't mean he was perfect,didn't he want to trade Yzerman at one point too? and he didn't exactly do a great job as Buffalo's GM either,coaches have types of players they like same as anyone else

He did, I still have the newspaper article talking about a deal almost being done. I think he was set to be traded for yashin.

 

[Realgud]

um, who?!?

you know he meant joakim abdelkader #8

 

[SuperScript29]

I'm afraid this season we're gonna be bad, but not bad enough. Overall this is not too bad of a team, just lots of kids who lack experience but have potential. If they start gaining confidence as the season goes and they build chemistry, I would not be shocked if we end up a few points out of the playoffs.

Of course that would be good long term, but I'm having doubts that we'll have our top-3 pick.

 

[jkutswings]

I'm afraid this season we're gonna be bad, but not bad enough. Overall this is not too bad of a team, just lots of kids who lack experience but have potential. If they start gaining confidence as the season goes and they build chemistry, I would not be shocked if we end up a few points out of the playoffs.

Of course that would be good long term, but I'm having doubts that we'll have our top-3 pick.

Time to use those connections to have the league do Detroit a favor...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The Red Wings are paying $46.19 million for 12 players who have totalled 12 goals combined this season

 

[RedWingzz]

You'd think some of you would have learned your lesson when decrying adding legitimate stars to the roster.

Have you not seen what happens when you pass up the opportunity to add a legitimate star because of the monetary cost?? You get Danny Dekeyser at $5M til he's 33. You get Jonathan Ericsson at $4.8M* til he can no longer skate. You pay Frans Nielsen $5.5M for six years til he's 38. You give Jonathan Abdelkader a lifetime deal.

Yes, Karlsson will very well cost $12M. He may even cost $13M. But you know what that means?

It means you don't get to have Kyle Quincey for $4.8M*
It means you don't get the luxury of signing Bernier to a 3x3 deal.
It means you don't get to the honor of paying a 35 year-old Brad Richards $3.3M*
It means you have to choose between Abdelkader and Helm and ship the other off at the deadline.
It means you have to give up on Brendan Smith sooner than expected and pass on giving him $3M*
It means you have to think twice about giving Stephen Weiss $6M*
It means you can't give Dan Cleary his a yearly salary for merely existing.
It means you can't give everyone on your team an NTC because - hey! - you might have to trade a mediocre player even though you treat him like your firstborn.

In short, it means you end up paying and treating depth players like they're depth players. God forbid.

And before anyone accuses me of being biased, I absolutely agree with the concerns about Karlsson's injury history and the criticisms of his defensive acumen, but that's part of the trade-off with a free agent star. You aren't going to get good contract value for them but their organizational value is potentially immeasurable, and that's especially the case where the free agent star is the type of player you desperately need, as in this case.

*in today's cap dollars (so as to make comparisons between $12-13M in today's cap dollars more genuine)

I didn't realize that Justin had a brother and that we signed him to a lifetime deal.

 

[TCNorthstars]

The Red Wings are paying $46.19 million for 12 players who have totalled 12 goals combined this season

Kings are in a similar place and that is without Doughty's extension.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The Red Wings are paying $46.19 million for 12 players who have totalled 12 goals combined this season

What's the point of including guys like Dekeyser and Ericsson who are on pace for ~10 goals which would be a great number for D? Daley's on pace for 7-8 goals which is nice and Abdelkader on pace for ~15+ is also solid. Need more goals from Nyquist but 70+ point pace is good. Glendening 30+ point pace is great for a 4th liner PKer. Green and Nielsen 40+ point pace is good.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

What's the point of including guys like Dekeyser and Ericsson who are on pace for ~10 goals which would be a great number for D? Daley's on pace for 7-8 goals which is nice and Abdelkader on pace for ~15+ is also solid. Need more goals from Nyquist but 70+ point pace is good. Glendening 30+ point pace is great for a 4th liner PKer. Green and Nielsen 40+ point pace is good.

I didn't write the article