Jim Elmer Benning on Sportsnet 650 Today (Jan. 23) around 4 PM

[Teflon Jim]

Having Pettersson on the team does not make up for the bad decisions management has made over the last 5 years. Just like McDavid could not save Chiarelli.

When did JB do anything like Chia I don't get this JB hate did he trade a hart trophy winner or did he trade a career ahler for the rookie of the year.
What exacticaly did JB do to earn such unearned hatred. Did he trade your 2nd rd pick that you cherished so much .
And listing a bunch of petty things is not enough to justify this hatred.

 

[timw33]

When did JB do anything like Chia I don't get this JB hate did he trade a hart trophy winner or did he trade a career ahler for the rookie of the year.
What exacticaly did JB do to earn such unearned hatred. Did he trade your 2nd rd pick that you cherished so much .
And listing a bunch of petty things is not enough to justify this hatred.

Death by a Thousand Cuts.

Off the top of my head:

-Miller signing (overpayment, bad term, had just as good a goalie in Lack)
-Not trading Vrbata after career year
-Kesler for a weak return (not insisting that Rakell/Theodore/Vatanen be included and making it a more future based package)
-Bonino for a weak return
-Letting Matthias and Richardson walk for nothing
-Flipping Fosling for Clendening
-Trading Kassian and a pick to get Prust (a character target who turned out to have zero character)
-Gudbranson trade
-Sutter extension
-Sbisa extension
-Dorsett extension
-Gudbranson extension
-Refusing to trade Hamhuis at the deadline
-Admitting that he could have traded Miller and didn't
-Tried to trade the Boeser pick for Lucic at the deadline, and then again in the offseason, then tried to sign him as a UFA (and was saved by non other than Peter Chiarelli)
-Drafting Virtanen over Ehlers/Nylander
-Drafting Juolevi over Tkachuk/Keller/Sergachev
-Trading a 2nd round pick for Linden Vey
-Hiring Willie Desjardins
-Keeping Willie Desjardins when it was clear he is not an NHL coach (see 14/15 Playoffs)
-Messing up Tryamkin paperwork and not understanding ELCs
-Driving Tryamkin off the team after saying he wasn't in game shape and tried to send him to AHL even though he had a contract stipulation that clearly said he would leave in they tried that. Then he played and was a totally competent d-man.
-Getting fined for tampering for not understanding the CBA
-Louie Eriksson signing
-Going into 2016 draft with 5 picks as the 3nd worst team in the league
-Unable to get a measly pick for a productive Thomas Vanek, who in the 2 previous years had netted minimum 2nd/3rd round picks.
-Trading a 3rd round pick for Pedan
-Trading Pedan and a 4th round (97ov) pick for Derek Pouliot
-Re-signing Pouliot
-Overpaying a career 3GAA goaltender on a 2 year deal
-Has not brought in a single quality NHL defender in 5 years, targets include: Philip Larsen, Derek Pouliot, Luca Sbisa, Erik Gudbranson, Matt Barkowski, Adam Clendening
-Sam Gagner signing.
-Sending Gagner to Utica's rival while their AHL team is dying for a talented centre
-Overpaying a 33 year old 4th line centre for 4 years.
-Tim Schaller signing
-Most recently showed poor long term thinking in the Nilsson deal and losing McKenna on waivers giving us no NHL contracted goalies on the farm team should the situation that is currently happening occur. Also why call up Demko if you aren't going to give him more than 1 start in a month?

 

[Teflon Jim]

Death by a Thousand Cuts.

Off the top of my head:

-Miller signing (overpayment, bad term, had just as good a goalie in Lack)
-Not trading Vrbata after career year
-Kesler for a weak return (not insisting that Rakell/Theodore/Vatanen be included and making it a more future based package)
-Bonino for a weak return
-Letting Matthias and Richardson walk for nothing
-Flipping Fosling for Clendening
-Trading Kassian and a pick to get Prust (a character target who turned out to have zero character)
-Gudbranson trade
-Sutter extension
-Sbisa extension
-Dorsett extension
-Gudbranson extension
-Refusing to trade Hamhuis at the deadline
-Admitting that he could have traded Miller and didn't
-Tried to trade the Boeser pick for Lucic at the deadline, and then again in the offseason, then tried to sign him as a UFA (and was saved by non other than Peter Chiarelli)
-Drafting Virtanen over Ehlers/Nylander
-Drafting Juolevi over Tkachuk/Keller/Sergachev
-Trading a 2nd round pick for Linden Vey
-Hiring Willie Desjardins
-Keeping Willie Desjardins when it was clear he is not an NHL coach (see 14/15 Playoffs)
-Messing up Tryamkin paperwork and not understanding ELCs
-Driving Tryamkin off the team after saying he wasn't in game shape and tried to send him to AHL even though he had a contract stipulation that clearly said he would leave in they tried that. Then he played and was a totally competent d-man.
-Getting fined for tampering for not understanding the CBA
-Louie Eriksson signing
-Going into 2016 draft with 5 picks as the 3nd worst team in the league
-Unable to get a measly pick for a productive Thomas Vanek, who in the 2 previous years had netted minimum 2nd/3rd round picks.
-Trading a 3rd round pick for Pedan
-Trading Pedan and a 4th round (97ov) pick for Derek Pouliot
-Re-signing Pouliot
-Overpaying a career 3GAA goaltender on a 2 year deal
-Has not brought in a single quality NHL defender in 5 years, targets include: Philip Larsen, Derek Pouliot, Luca Sbisa, Erik Gudbranson, Matt Barkowski, Adam Clendening
-Sam Gagner signing.
-Sending Gagner to Utica's rival while their AHL team is dying for a talented centre
-Overpaying a 33 year old 4th line centre for 4 years.
-Tim Schaller signing
-Most recently showed poor long term thinking in the Nilsson deal and losing McKenna on waivers giving us no NHL contracted goalies on the farm team should the situation that is currently happening occur. Also why call up Demko if you aren't going to give him more than 1 start in a month?

And all this set us back how as it seems like a list of petty things which is not good enough.

 

[timw33]

And all this set us back how as it seems like a list of petty things which is not good enough.

These are all fundamentally bad moves that have impeded our ability to build a stanley cup contender. The 14' and 16' drafts alone set us back 2-3 years. Spending an entire drafts worth of picks to acquire not a single quality NHL defender has set us back an entire draft class.

Just because he didn't trade a star player for magic beans doesn't mean he's even close to a competent NHL GM.

 

[Jimbo57]

And all this set us back how as it seems like a list of petty things which is not good enough.

Dont you know? The geniuses in this forum would have taken that 101 pt team in 2015, swapped the whole core, re- stocked the pitiful prospect pool left by Gillis et al, and revamped the whole D by now...and henceforth would have built a contender by now. Because doing that in 3-4 years is normal.

 

[Peter10]

Except Benning stole our superstar at #5, and wasn’t gifted any top-3 picks whatsoever. Makes the positivity of our rebuild at this point all the more impressive, and fun to cheer for. Benning is the salve to bad Canuck luck.

Should they build a Benning statue in front of Rogers?

 

[Teflon Jim]

These are all fundamentally bad moves that have impeded our ability to build a stanley cup contender. The 14' and 16' drafts alone set us back 2-3 years. Spending an entire drafts worth of picks to acquire not a single quality NHL defender has set us back an entire draft class.

Just because he didn't trade a star player for magic beans doesn't mean he's even close to a competent NHL GM.

I guess its all about how you look at things.
After the twins retired i expected to be in the basement for several years but JB has already replaced them with EP40 and BB6 while it looks like BH53 replaces Kesler.
I'm sure aquaman sees only the great core of youth assembled already with a stable of good young prospects in the system.
I don't see any major screw ups that would get JB fired in fact I'm excited about our future these days.

 

[Ryp37]

I guess its all about how you look at things.
After the twins retired i expected to be in the basement for several years but JB has already replaced them with EP40 and BB6 while it looks like BH53 replaces Kesler.
I'm sure aquaman sees only the great core of youth assembled already with a stable of good young prospects in the system.
I don't see any major screw ups that would get JB fired in fact I'm excited about our future these days.

What would a bad job have looked like to you then?

I don't know how you can defend the guy, we went through the pains of a re-build with essentially 0 of the benefits. Like this team set franchise records for being piss poor while trying to compete for the playoffs. That's hilarious.

Benning signed Eriksson and traded for Gudbranson in the off-season before getting Petey. He even shopped Petey's pick. The mans a buffoon and he'll prove so once again on July 1st

 

[Teflon Jim]

What would a bad job have looked like to you then?

I don't know how you can defend the guy, we went through the pains of a re-build with essentially 0 of the benefits. Like this team set franchise records for being piss poor while trying to compete for the playoffs. That's hilarious.

Benning signed Eriksson and traded for Gudbranson in the off-season before getting Petey. He even shopped Petey's pick. The mans a buffoon and he'll prove so once again on July 1st

The twins just retired and they've already been replaced so has Kesler .
We have two #1 centres with a #1 winger and top prospects coming up .
This all in 4 years and now we're on the rise powered by the will of our youth to compete.
Of course JB is gonna say the team will compete to win even in a rebuild after all they are a billion dollar sports entertainment organization with the purpose of selling tickets to an entertaining product even if they are not.
I overall dont understand all the doom and gloom as I'm once again following the hockey heros every game now and see a bright future once again.

 

[Ryp37]

The twins just retired and they've already been replaced so has Kesler .
We have two #1 centres with a #1 winger and top prospects coming up .
This all in 4 years and now we're on the rise powered by the will of our youth to compete.
Of course JB is gonna say the team will compete to win even in a rebuild after all they are a billion dollar sports entertainment organization with the purpose of selling tickets to an entertaining product even if they are not.
I overall dont understand all the doom and gloom as I'm once again following the hockey heros every game now and see a bright future once again.

You're just repeating yourself

That's a poor excuse.

A Message from Glen Sather and Jeff Gorton About Our Team

Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock warns there’s pain coming as he takes over | The Star

Answer the question. What would a bad job have looked like? I wanna know what you've set the bar at.

 

[Teflon Jim]

You're just repeating yourself

That's a poor excuse.

A Message from Glen Sather and Jeff Gorton About Our Team

Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock warns there’s pain coming as he takes over | The Star

Answer the question. What would a bad job have looked like? I wanna know what you've set the bar at.

I think I have to repeat myself because some either can't hear or won't listen to reason and conmon sense

 

[pgj98m3]

I think I have to repeat myself because some either can't hear or won't listen to reason and conmon sense

Did you mean conman sense cause that would be about right.

 

[Ryp37]

I think I have to repeat myself because some either can't hear or won't listen to reason and conmon sense

Why can't you answer the question?

 

[rypper]

Why can't you answer the question?

*Tumbleweeds*

 

[racerjoe]

Except Benning stole our superstar at #5, and wasn’t gifted any top-3 picks whatsoever. Makes the positivity of our rebuild at this point all the more impressive, and fun to cheer for. Benning is the salve to bad Canuck luck.

Yeah Toronto got there’s at 4, or did you mean Nylander at 8?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Dont you know? The geniuses in this forum would have taken that 101 pt team in 2015, swapped the whole core, re- stocked the pitiful prospect pool left by Gillis et al, and revamped the whole D by now...and henceforth would have built a contender by now. Because doing that in 3-4 years is normal.

Where do you get off stereotyping every critique made here in this way?

Present a rational argument instead of the above strawman and you will get an answer you cannot counter. Maybe that's why you posted this strawman in the first place?

 

[Horse McHindu]

Dont you know? The geniuses in this forum would have taken that 101 pt team in 2015, swapped the whole core, re- stocked the pitiful prospect pool left by Gillis et al, and revamped the whole D by now...and henceforth would have built a contender by now. Because doing that in 3-4 years is normal.

Best.Post.Ever.

 

[Teflon Jim]

Why can't you answer the question?

I did but you refuse to hear

 

[Teflon Jim]

Did you mean conman sense cause that would be about right.

No I didnt and thats because you refuse to listen

 

[F A N]

You're just repeating yourself

That's a poor excuse.

A Message from Glen Sather and Jeff Gorton About Our Team

Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock warns there’s pain coming as he takes over | The Star

I know you were just trying to prove a point, but I'm not sure your links really prove your point.

How much can you read into Babcock's initial comments except to say "If we suck for a while don't blame me." He surely spoke with a different tone after the season began: "If you look around the league, everyone loves their young guys for about 10 games. Then the veterans get their jobs back. Well, I'm not interested in that kind of thing. Either you're going to play and help the team win, or the Marlies are available for you."

I read Sather's and Gorton's comments as well. They didn't use the word rebuild did they? Glen Sather is no longer in charge but I don't think his MO was patiently rebuild either. That does not mean they don't intend to be sellers which their message to their fans seem to indicate is what they will do. But that whole getting younger and acquiring players that will help the team for years to come is no different from Benning's focus on the future message.

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

Dont you know? The geniuses in this forum would have taken that 101 pt team in 2015, swapped the whole core, re- stocked the pitiful prospect pool left by Gillis et al, and revamped the whole D by now...and henceforth would have built a contender by now. Because doing that in 3-4 years is normal.

This summer will be your 6th draft, how many years until we stop hearing about Gillis?

 

[Jimbo57]

Where do you get off stereotyping every critique made here in this way?

Present a rational argument instead of the above strawman and you will get an answer you cannot counter. Maybe that's why you posted this strawman in the first place?

Its exactly as I wrote it. TimmyboyW was lamenting above because this team is not a contender yet. I suggested that the geniuses in this forum could have taken that 101 pt team in 2015 - swapped out the whole core, swapped out the D, and restocked the prospect pool by now- only because there are reams of posts in here criticizing "the rebuild", "the d", and practically everything else. Timmyboy thinks that this ship should have been in contender territory by now after all. If you cannot connect the dots - thats on you.

 

[Bobby Digital]

Get over yourself, Pal.

Its exactly as I wrote it. TimmyboyW was lamenting above because this team is not a contender yet. I suggested that the geniuses in this forum could have taken that 101 pt team in 2015 - swapped out the whole core, swapped out the D, and restocked the prospect pool by now- only because there are reams of posts in here criticizing "the rebuild", "the d", and practically everything else. Timmyboy thinks that this ship should have been in contender territory by now after all. If you cannot connect the dots - and have to resort to pulling out phrases from your philosphy 100 text book in a juvenile attempt to insult me - thats on you.

Toronto was in pretty much the exact same position as us in 2014 when both Benning and Shannahan were hired.

One team fully committed to a plan. Loaded up on draft picks, signed FAs to short terms deals so they could eat up the tough mintues, lead the young guys and eventually flip for assets that would help them down the line, and also flipped their older vets for those same future assets. Aka rebuilding.

One team refused to accept reality and instead pushed for the playoffs. They traded picks for older "prospects" in hopes to retool quickly, wasted multiple draft picks on crap, refused to cash in on older players and signed multiple UFAs to horrible contracts. The most amazing thing the GM of this team has accomplished is selling ignorant fans an idea that he's actually been rebuilding.

One team is a Stanley Cup contender the other one isn't even close.

Guess what team your boy is the GM of?

 

[xtra]

I guess its all about how you look at things.
After the twins retired i expected to be in the basement for several years but JB has already replaced them with EP40 and BB6 while it looks like BH53 replaces Kesler.
I'm sure aquaman sees only the great core of youth assembled already with a stable of good young prospects in the system.
I don't see any major screw ups that would get JB fired in fact I'm excited about our future these days.

So your saying we were competing the years the twins were here under benning? Shouldn’t benning be fired then for finishing bottom 3 so much?

Or were we rebuilding the same amount of time as Toronto?

 

[timw33]

Its exactly as I wrote it. TimmyboyW was lamenting above because this team is not a contender yet. I suggested that the geniuses in this forum could have taken that 101 pt team in 2015 - swapped out the whole core, swapped out the D, and restocked the prospect pool by now- only because there are reams of posts in here criticizing "the rebuild", "the d", and practically everything else. Timmyboy thinks that this ship should have been in contender territory by now after all.

What's hilarious is that they looked at that 101-point team, which was only lightly tweaked by Benning, bragged openly about how far ahead of their plan they were, and then after that season promptly downgraded Bonino (and in the process Vrbata), downgraded our depth, downgraded our picks, downgraded our D-core, and while doing so actually thought they were making the team better.

What follows is a 3 year culmulative stretch where they were the absolute worst team in the NHL. And along the way they kept trying to make "compete" moves in
Gudbranson/Eriksson.

I thought about going through the exercise of how we could have very simply done a conventional rebuild and be miles ahead of where we are, but then I realized that you and the other usual suspects would be screaming "HINDSIGHT! PICKING THIS PLAYER MEANS WE WOULDNT BE ABLE TO PICK XXX PLAYER!" so honestly, it's not worth the time to make a case in good faith.