Jim Benning vs Kyle Dubas

[RogerR]

How exactly do you know this?

Please, for once back up a claim

Because in 2002 Leaf fans were laughed at for celebrating getting to the E. Conf. Finals and advised it didn't matter unless you win a cup. I was told this by Hab, Sens, Canuck fans ETC. Now winning a first round is huge apparently!
It's irrelevant what happened in the past with a different roster. blues won the cup 2 years ago and the season prior missed the playoffs alltogether.

 

[Halla]

epic cold take thread.

3-11 against non ottawa teams. ill leave it at that

 

[Joe n]

How exactly do you know this?

Please, for once back up a claim

I can't wait to get the we won a playoff round trophy

 

[sparxx87]

Because in 2002 Leaf fans were laughed at for celebrating getting to the E. Conf. Finals and advised it didn't matter unless you win a cup. I was told this by Hab, Sens, Canuck fans ETC. Now winning a first round is huge apparently!
It's irrelevant what happened in the past with a different roster. blues won the cup 2 years ago and the season prior missed the playoffs alltogether.

So three individuals are the authority on this? How old were they and you in 2002?

I find it much easier to enjoy hockey if you do it as a hockey fan rather than examining everything as it relates to your favourite team. It makes you sound like a massive homer and most will just disregard what you post.

As far as winning rounds - Most in the sport recognize a team needs to be able to win in 3-4 different ways and that’s what makes the cup such a big accomplishment. I think most knew the Leafs weren’t going anywhere because Dubas is a beginner and built a group that could only win one way. He admitted he was wrong in the offseason and tried to fix things. That’s progress but for me, still a ways to go. Hard to evaluate this year when they aren’t playing any true contenders so we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[IPS]

Jim Benning is an elite GM

Benning > Dubas

 

[IPS]

The difference of Benning and Dubas really is not hard to understand. Neither are great to be fair, But Benning did not have the benefit of taking over a 105 pt team with over 28M in capspace as Dubas had.

Benning took a bad team, made some mistakes, and now that team is ascending.

Dubas took a 105 pt team. made many mistakes, the team has regressed every year under him, and missed the playoffs all together this year.

So neither are great, but atleast with Benning you see some positives now. Taking a bad team and making it a team that is now trending up. While Dubas took a 105 pt team and has gone the other way trending down.

Agreed 100%, the Canuck's ascension has been insane.

 

[RogerR]

So three individuals are the authority on this? How old were they and you in 2002?

I find it much easier to enjoy hockey if you do it as a hockey fan rather than examining everything as it relates to your favourite team. It makes you sound like a massive homer and most will just disregard what you post.

As far as winning rounds - Most in the sport recognize a team needs to be able to win in 3-4 different ways and that’s what makes the cup such a big accomplishment. I think most knew the Leafs weren’t going anywhere because Dubas is a beginner and built a group that could only win one way. He admitted he was wrong in the offseason and tried to fix things. That’s progress but for me, still a ways to go. Hard to evaluate this year when they aren’t playing any true contenders so we’ll have to wait and see.

27.

 

[RogerR]

Considering Dubas was acting GM before Lou arrived and has been with Leafs since 2014, it's a little unfair to frame it as he "Took over" a 105 point team. He was apart of building that 105 point team.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Leafs still #1 in the NHL, Vancouver barely ahead of Ottawa, Jim Benning still winning this poll, but there is supposedly no anti Leaf bias

 

[RogerR]

Dubas is great with the cap.

CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Anyone who still thinks Leafs have some dire cap issue needs to spend time on the other 30 teams. How Dubas pulled this off this offseason is fantastic.

Canucks cap...oh boy. Never, EVER give big, long-term deals to 4th liners. And this was done before Pettersen and Hughes were locked-up. Even Boeser needs a new deal soon. He could only sign him for 3 years because of cap issues.

A 11.5 million 4th line...Ridiculous. Spezza/Thornton/Simmonds combined make 2.9...

 

[Golden_Jet]

Because in 2002 Leaf fans were laughed at for celebrating getting to the E. Conf. Finals and advised it didn't matter unless you win a cup. I was told this by Hab, Sens, Canuck fans ETC. Now winning a first round is huge apparently!
It's irrelevant what happened in the past with a different roster. blues won the cup 2 years ago and the season prior missed the playoffs alltogether.

In the past the Leafs gave every player “rings” for winning the division, lol

 

[Golden_Jet]

Dubas is great with the cap.

CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Anyone who still thinks Leafs have some dire cap issue needs to spend time on the other 30 teams. How Dubas pulled this off this offseason is fantastic.

Canucks cap...oh boy. Never, EVER give big, long-term deals to 4th liners. And this was done before Pettersen and Hughes were locked-up. Even Boeser needs a new deal soon. He could only sign him for 3 years because of cap issues.

A 11.5 million 4th line...Ridiculous. Spezza/Thornton/Simmonds combined make 2.9...

Lol, 40 million for 4 players and 40 million for 19 players.
Should be able to get balance with that.

 

[RogerR]

In the past the Leafs gave every player “rings” for winning the division, lol

Decades ago maybe. Never heard that. I know they had a celebration over a close call in 93.

 

[RogerR]

Lol, 40 million for 4 players and 40 million for 19 players.
Should be able to get balance with that.

Laziest argument EVER. What about the other 40 million? Do you put any thought into that? The 4 players are core pieces and stars you build around and they play a ton of minutes.

The cap is about the entire roster and 81.5 million.

I seriously have had Canuck fans laughing at the 4 for 40 million narrative, even this offseason. No one spends anytime adding up the MILLIONS wasted on support talent. People only seem to notice if a star makes 10 million. Vancouver's 4th line that barely plays has a 11.5 cap hit! Dubas can find a better 4th line and save 8 million.

When you pay almost nothing for Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds, Bogosian, Holl, the 40 million narrative starts to fall apart. It shouldn't cost much to fill-out a roster for good players when you have stars locked-up and in place. Dubas did it perfectly this offseason and he'll face less challenges as his great drafting starts to show soon with players on ELCs.

What GM is better than Dubas at finding fantastic deals on bottom 6 talent?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Decades ago maybe. Never heard that. I know they had a celebration over a close call in 93.

That was the ring year and a a city hall rally

The Leafs did have a City Hall rally in 1993 for a team that fell one game short of making it to the final. So desperate was Leafs ownership and Leafs fans for the slightest form of success that they feted that team like Stanley Cup champions and doled out commemorative rings for the “Norris Division Champions of 1993”, a title that doesn’t even really exist.

 

[Critical13]

Lol, 40 million for 4 players and 40 million for 19 players.
Should be able to get balance with that.

I would have preferred he had spent it on Chiarot, Edmundson, Eriksson or Beagle types, personally.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Lol, 40 million for 4 players and 40 million for 19 players.
Should be able to get balance with that.

To be fair to Kyle, would it be better if he spent over the odds on players like, Silfverberg, Schmaltz, Krejci, Skinner, Backlund, Gardiner, Seabrook, Saad, Foligno, Benn, Detroit, Neal, Bobrovsky, Carter, Parise, Weber, Duchene, Zajac, Eberle, The plethora of Rangers buyouts, Dadanov, Giroux, Matheson, Karlsson, Faulk, Palat, Vancouver, Fleury, Schultz, Stastny or Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lol, 40 million for 4 players and 40 million for 19 players.
Should be able to get balance with that.

I would suggest to you it's working out considering as of today they are the top team in the league

 

[dukeofjive]

Poll was done when vancouver was in the playoffs and toronto lost to columbus for the play ins...

Man hfboard is so anti leafs, its the only reason they have not won anything since forever...

Damn you hfboards

 

[RogerR]

Poll was done when vancouver was in the playoffs and toronto lost to columbus for the play ins...

Man hfboard is so anti leafs, its the only reason they have not won anything since forever...

Damn you hfboards

I think it more shows people need to calm down about the now and put context into things. You're a Habs fan. The tweets and media acclaim about the Habs looks funny now. People should have waited beyond 1 month.
The knocks on Dubas and why people wouldn't vote for them were so incredibly flawed anyways.

 

[RogerR]

I would suggest to you it's working out considering as of today they are the top team in the league

And that's because he had 41 million to fill-out the roster and did a fantastic job.

 

[dukeofjive]

I think it more shows people need to calm down about the now and put context into things. You're a Habs fan. The tweets and media acclaim about the Habs looks funny now. People should have waited beyond 1 month.
The knocks on Dubas and why people wouldn't vote for them were so incredibly flawed anyways.

Dude its entertainment, for sure the media will prop up there team when they do good or bad. This poll was made around the time leafs lost to columbus and vancouver won there round, its not rocket science...

Try not to take what people post too personally, will make your life a lot easier, not a knock on you, but yea as a habs fan i figured out not to let trolls or people with different opinions get to me, makes enjoying the sport much better.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Maple Leaf Hot Stove has just said Dubas for the Gregory Award.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Best HF Thread of all time. All you have to do is link this post and people can easily see how stupid so many people on here are.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

And that's because he had 41 million to fill-out the roster and did a fantastic job.

I have been as critical of Dubas as anybody and I stand by those criticisms because they were valid but the results this season speak for themselves