Jets Prospects 2018-2019 Part 3

[puck stoppa]

He has been injured on and off since joining the Moose, after the accident. And when he was healthy on the Moose, we were winning and not in need of a change.

I remember watching our fourth line during that win streak thinking man I hope we lose a game so they can take Luoto and Shaw out. They would’ve been the fourth line on Canada’s Spengler Cup team if lucky. Someone posted some advanced stats on that line and it was awful, but we kept winning, if we lost 4 in a row with them they would’ve been pulled and sent down and would never play here again. They were tough to watch.

 

[Gil Fisher]

For what it's worth, Chevy seemed to suggest yesterday that we'd be seeing Niku soon enough.

Would be nice if we could play Sbisa and Bourque into 4th or 5th round draft picks at the deadline

 

[puck stoppa]

For what it's worth, Chevy seemed to suggest yesterday that we'd be seeing Niku soon enough.

Would be nice if we could play Sbisa and Bourque into 4th or 5th round draft picks at the deadline

I think Bourque, Shaw, Sbisa, Bitteto, Dahlstrom can fetch nothing and all likely clear waivers except for maybe Sbisa.

 

[ps241]

For what it's worth, Chevy seemed to suggest yesterday that we'd be seeing Niku soon enough.

Would be nice if we could play Sbisa and Bourque into 4th or 5th round draft picks at the deadline

Where did you see Chevy’s Niku comments Gil?

 

[puck stoppa]

Where did you see Chevy’s Niku comments Gil?

Wpg sun is where I saw it. He spoke about Niku Buff.

 

[ps241]

Cool thx!

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't agree that he has been that bad. Unfortunately he seems to have 2-3 weak/bad games when he first comes back after injury. He is often injured so that adds up.

The Jets could save a little cap space though by sending him (and Beaulieu) down. They get 1.075 mil cap relief and have several AHL Dmen who would get <800k. Injury replacement has pushed us over the cap if we had to count Buff's contract after the ruling on his grievance. Saving 500k(ish) by sending down Kuli and Beaulieu and calling up Niku and Kovacevic, for example, might be important.

Me looking at the Jets' roster of defensemen...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Remember, we were winning almost every game with that patch work D and Mau likes to stick with winning lineups regardless how bad some players are.
Is there an echo in the room

And I will repeat - such an extreme refusal to change a lineup that has just won stinks of superstition. Do you really believe it is acceptable for a coach to make lineup decisions based on superstition? Take the word superstition out if you don't like it and just call it irrational or illogical instead. Is it acceptable for a coach to be that irrational? Does he also refuse to change his underwear after a win?

I know that Mau has a tendency to lean toward not changing a winning lineup. A slight leaning in that direction is one thing. But put it in the context of having a player who had made the team but was sent down for a brief period of conditioning. That player has now finished his conditioning. The player who was a temporary replacement for him has visibly played poorly. You don't refuse to put the player who had won a job in because your goalie won you a game despite the poor play by the replacement. That is carrying the idea of not changing a winning lineup to a ridiculous extreme.

 

[Whileee]

And I will repeat - such an extreme refusal to change a lineup that has just won stinks of superstition. Do you really believe it is acceptable for a coach to make lineup decisions based on superstition? Take the word superstition out if you don't like it and just call it irrational or illogical instead. Is it acceptable for a coach to be that irrational? Does he also refuse to change his underwear after a win?

I know that Mau has a tendency to lean toward not changing a winning lineup. A slight leaning in that direction is one thing. But put it in the context of having a player who had made the team but was sent down for a brief period of conditioning. That player has now finished his conditioning. The player who was a temporary replacement for him has visibly played poorly. You don't refuse to put the player who had won a job in because your goalie won you a game despite the poor play by the replacement. That is carrying the idea of not changing a winning lineup to a ridiculous extreme.

I tend to agree that keeping a winning roster intact is sometimes illogical. But I'm not sure there's any evidence that it's superstition. Players and teams have a very different feeling after a win, regardless of the process. If anything, I think Maurice is highly attuned to keeping the team positive and close. He talks about that all the time. If keeping a winning lineup together promotes esprit-de-corps just a bit, maybe it's not a terrible idea.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I tend to agree that keeping a winning roster intact is sometimes illogical. But I'm not sure there's any evidence that it's superstition. Players and teams have a very different feeling after a win, regardless of the process. If anything, I think Maurice is highly attuned to keeping the team positive and close. He talks about that all the time. If keeping a winning lineup together promotes esprit-de-corps just a bit, maybe it's not a terrible idea.

It isn't necessarily superstition - but it would be if it was carried to such an illogical extreme. I'm not saying that Maurice was superstitiously sticking with a winning lineup. I'm saying that failure to call up Niku was not just to keep a winning lineup together. That would have been irrational, illogical and superstitious. The reason is something else.

Bitetto got better as the season progressed, but at the time we are talking about here, he was bad. Winning or not Maurice would have called up Niku unless there is something he doesn't like about Niku.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I tend to agree that keeping a winning roster intact is sometimes illogical. But I'm not sure there's any evidence that it's superstition. Players and teams have a very different feeling after a win, regardless of the process. If anything, I think Maurice is highly attuned to keeping the team positive and close. He talks about that all the time. If keeping a winning lineup together promotes esprit-de-corps just a bit, maybe it's not a terrible idea.

In addition, we are talking about a pretty small window this year where Niku could have been called up in the third week of November, after a good run of games (essentially his training camp). Management always tends to move a little slower on changes than the common fan would like. At the end of the day, he'd be here were it not for injuries.

 

[puck stoppa]

It isn't necessarily superstition - but it would be if it was carried to such an illogical extreme. I'm not saying that Maurice was superstitiously sticking with a winning lineup. I'm saying that failure to call up Niku was not just to keep a winning lineup together. That would have been irrational, illogical and superstitious. The reason is something else.

Bitetto got better as the season progressed, but at the time we are talking about here, he was bad. Winning or not Maurice would have called up Niku unless there is something he doesn't like about Niku.

How do you explain playing that awful fourth line during that entire time we were winning when their underlying numbers were awful when we had better options?

 

[puck stoppa]

In addition, we are talking about a pretty small window this year where Niku could have been called up in the third week of November, after a good run of games (essentially his training camp). Management always tends to move a little slower on changes than the common fan would like. At the end of the day, he'd be here were it not for injuries.

Correct. Tough luck and bad timing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

How do you explain playing that awful fourth line during that entire time we were winning when their underlying numbers were awful when we had better options?

The same explanation. Maurice didn't believe he had better options.

 

[Whileee]

It isn't necessarily superstition - but it would be if it was carried to such an illogical extreme. I'm not saying that Maurice was superstitiously sticking with a winning lineup. I'm saying that failure to call up Niku was not just to keep a winning lineup together. That would have been irrational, illogical and superstitious. The reason is something else.

Bitetto got better as the season progressed, but at the time we are talking about here, he was bad. Winning or not Maurice would have called up Niku unless there is something he doesn't like about Niku.

Well, you did pretty much say that it "stinks" of superstition, and you asked rhetorically if it was okay for a coach to make decisions based on superstition.

I think the Jets feel that Niku's development needs a bit more work, and maybe a bit of a reality check that he still needs to be more focused on defense when he doesn't have the puck. I'm the first to be after Maurice for playing Sbisa, Bitetto and even Beaulieu, and his previous penchant for playing vets. But I don't think the decision vis-a-vis Niku is based on "superstition". It might have been to keep a winning line-up together. It might even have been to help the Jets save a bit of cash. But I think it was also to get Niku playing at a level that would keep him in the NHL long term. That meant getting him healthy, in shape, and playing consistently defensively. Imagine the scenario where you bring in Niku and replace another D in a winning line-up and they start losing and Niku is struggling defensively. That would be a worst case scenario for Niku's development and positioning with the team.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Well, you did pretty much say that it "stinks" of superstition, and you asked rhetorically if it was okay for a coach to make decisions based on superstition.

I think the Jets feel that Niku's development needs a bit more work, and maybe a bit of a reality check that he still needs to be more focused on defense when he doesn't have the puck. I'm the first to be after Maurice for playing Sbisa, Bitetto and even Beaulieu, and his previous penchant for playing vets. But I don't think the decision vis-a-vis Niku is based on "superstition". It might have been to keep a winning line-up together. It might even have been to help the Jets save a bit of cash. But I think it was also to get Niku playing at a level that would keep him in the NHL long term. That meant getting him healthy, in shape, and playing consistently defensively. Imagine the scenario where you bring in Niku and replace another D in a winning line-up and they start losing and Niku is struggling defensively. That would be a worst case scenario for Niku's development and positioning with the team.

So, kinda like every time they put Comrie in a game.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well, you did pretty much say that it "stinks" of superstition, and you asked rhetorically if it was okay for a coach to make decisions based on superstition.

I think the Jets feel that Niku's development needs a bit more work, and maybe a bit of a reality check that he still needs to be more focused on defense when he doesn't have the puck. I'm the first to be after Maurice for playing Sbisa, Bitetto and even Beaulieu, and his previous penchant for playing vets. But I don't think the decision vis-a-vis Niku is based on "superstition". It might have been to keep a winning line-up together. It might even have been to help the Jets save a bit of cash. But I think it was also to get Niku playing at a level that would keep him in the NHL long term. That meant getting him healthy, in shape, and playing consistently defensively. Imagine the scenario where you bring in Niku and replace another D in a winning line-up and they start losing and Niku is struggling defensively. That would be a worst case scenario for Niku's development and positioning with the team.

It was always my point that just sticking with a winning lineup was not the explanation. I may have stated it poorly. I should have said that it would stink of superstition if that was the explanation.

I don't know what Maurice's thinking actually is. He has had at least 2 opportune times to call up Niku this year, IMO, and hasn't done so. It appears to me that he doesn't think Niku belongs in the NHL, for whatever reason.

Niku is 23 YO. Given the weaknesses in our D corps this year and Niku's inability to make the roster, it doesn't look to me like he will ever make the NHL with the Jets. If he can't break into this weak roster, how will he ever break into a good one? The answer could be bad luck with his injuries but that is not how it looks to me. He could have been called up before the injuries. Maybe his D game does need more work. Maybe his play without the puck is not good enough. If he was 21 or even 22 those reasons would not kill the optimism. At 23, they do.

 

[Whileee]

So, kinda like every time they put Comrie in a game.

They usually put Comrie in a game out of necessity to preserve the #1 goalie. Different concept.

 

[Whileee]

It was always my point that just sticking with a winning lineup was not the explanation. I may have stated it poorly. I should have said that it would stink of superstition if that was the explanation.

I don't know what Maurice's thinking actually is. He has had at least 2 opportune times to call up Niku this year, IMO, and hasn't done so. It appears to me that he doesn't think Niku belongs in the NHL, for whatever reason.

Niku is 23 YO. Given the weaknesses in our D corps this year and Niku's inability to make the roster, it doesn't look to me like he will ever make the NHL with the Jets. If he can't break into this weak roster, how will he ever break into a good one? The answer could be bad luck with his injuries but that is not how it looks to me. He could have been called up before the injuries. Maybe his D game does need more work. Maybe his play without the puck is not good enough. If he was 21 or even 22 those reasons would not kill the optimism. At 23, they do.

I think Niku would be in the lineup if he had a full training camp and didn't have a spare of injuries. The Jets were forced to troll the waiver wire to fill in for injuries, including to Niku. Then they won more than perhaps was expected with a patchwork D and Niku has been in and out of the AHL lineup. He'll get his opportunity.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Niku would be in the lineup if he had a full training camp and didn't have a spare of injuries. The Jets were forced to troll the waiver wire to fill in for injuries, including to Niku. Then they won more than perhaps was expected with a patchwork D and Niku has been in and out of the AHL lineup. He'll get his opportunity.

I hope you are right Whileee. He would be an improvement. But I'm not optimistic.

He played for the Moose yesterday. Had 2 shots and 2 A's. He also played the game before and had 2 SOG. Two wins for the Moose with him in the lineup after a lot of recent losses without him.

In spite of yesterday's win, the Jets have not been winning lately. If he is healthy enough to play in the AHL, he is healthy enough to play in the NHL.

 

[Whileee]

I hope you are right Whileee. He would be an improvement. But I'm not optimistic.

He played for the Moose yesterday. Had 2 shots and 2 A's. He also played the game before and had 2 SOG. Two wins for the Moose with him in the lineup after a lot of recent losses without him.

In spite of yesterday's win, the Jets have not been winning lately. If he is healthy enough to play in the AHL, he is healthy enough to play in the NHL.

I think Niku will be in the Jets line-up this season. It's a matter of time. I'd love to see him replace one of the bottom 3, and I think it will happen.

I wouldn't rule out a trade for Niku, either. If the Jets are in a strong position for the playoffs he might be expendable to bring in a good, experienced D for the stretch run. Samberg and Heinola have made him more expendable.

 

[Weezeric]

I hope you are right Whileee. He would be an improvement. But I'm not optimistic.

He played for the Moose yesterday. Had 2 shots and 2 A's. He also played the game before and had 2 SOG. Two wins for the Moose with him in the lineup after a lot of recent losses without him.

In spite of yesterday's win, the Jets have not been winning lately. If he is healthy enough to play in the AHL, he is healthy enough to play in the NHL.

Why are you so convinced he would be an improvement? Because he’s good on the powerplay in the AHL? He was horrrrrrrible last year. Far worse than bitetto has been this year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Niku will be in the Jets line-up this season. It's a matter of time. I'd love to see him replace one of the bottom 3, and I think it will happen.

I wouldn't rule out a trade for Niku, either. If the Jets are in a strong position for the playoffs he might be expendable to bring in a good, experienced D for the stretch run. Samberg and Heinola have made him more expendable.

If he can't break into our weak D corps, he won't have much trade value.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why are you so convinced he would be an improvement? Because he’s good on the powerplay in the AHL? He was horrrrrrrible last year. Far worse than bitetto has been this year.

He was horrible at first last year. He got steadily better. But I'm not judging him on last year. He looked much better this year in the little time he got with the Jets, as expected. I'm judging him on that.

 

[ecolad]

It was always my point that just sticking with a winning lineup was not the explanation. I may have stated it poorly. I should have said that it would stink of superstition if that was the explanation.

I don't know what Maurice's thinking actually is. He has had at least 2 opportune times to call up Niku this year, IMO, and hasn't done so. It appears to me that he doesn't think Niku belongs in the NHL, for whatever reason.

Niku is 23 YO. Given the weaknesses in our D corps this year and Niku's inability to make the roster, it doesn't look to me like he will ever make the NHL with the Jets. If he can't break into this weak roster, how will he ever break into a good one? The answer could be bad luck with his injuries but that is not how it looks to me. He could have been called up before the injuries. Maybe his D game does need more work. Maybe his play without the puck is not good enough. If he was 21 or even 22 those reasons would not kill the optimism. At 23, they do.

Well, nobody really does; but based upon what he has said in some pressers, Maurice appears to believe that the team reversed it`s direction and started a sustained climb coincident with, and BECAUSE of, the arrival of Sbisa. This simply re-inforced his view that the team needed more physical grittier players on D in order to succeed - a bias confirmation if you will. Niku does not bring this element and will likely be brought up (in other than an injury situation) only when the organization feel he is ready to make the step into a top 4 position.