Post-Game Talk: Jets Lose Tank On 3-2

[Mortimer Snerd]

I feel like we could probably move on from Enstrom. He still has a few years left and should fetch a decent return. For the money his possession metrics and his drop off in play this year visually (could be wrong) makes me feel like we wouldn't miss him much.

So Trouba stays on the left. OK.
We bring up Morrissey. OK, probably happens either way.
With Enstrom gone Stu plays 2nd pair D until Morrissey is ready to move up. Then he plays 3rd pair until we develop another LHD we haven't even drafted yet. So 4 years, 5 years more of Stu? No way the return on Toby is worth that.

With Enstrom he and Trouba play top 4. Morrissey plays 3rd pair and Stu finally moves to the PB and then out.

Enstrom has a full no-move clause in his contract. Even if he waived that, it would certainly limit the options.

He hasn't been as good this year as previous years, but he looks much better recently than he did earlier in the season. They should probably keep him at least until they have another good top-4 LD option to replace him.

Except for scoring I thought Toby has been a little better this year. JMO

I think he would waive for the chance to play on a contender. That could mean a list of about 10 acceptable teams. He could be moved I just don't think it is a good idea with no replacement ready.

 

[csk]

Hey guys, I missed the game last night. Does anyone know why Postma only played 6 minutes?

 

[sipowicz]

Hey guys, I missed the game last night. Does anyone know why Postma only played 6 minutes?

Maurice doesn't want Postma to improve as his boy is returning soon, wouldn't want Postie to get too much better than him!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think you may be extrapolating a bit much from a sample of two (Chiarot and Lowry). Scheifele never regressed, and has gotten better every year. I didn't see regression in Trouba either.

Armia is pretty thoroughly developed. As slowly as he has come along if he regresses at this point it means he just doesn't have what it takes. I don't see any sign of that.

Please no to Burmi-Lowry-Stafford... that experiment failed miserably. Lowry should never be more than a 4th line C who plays PK imo. I'd rather see Dano-Burmi-Stafford and have Lemieux start in the A.

Neither Dano nor Stafford is very good on the LW. Put Stafford on the 2nd line. Go with Armia-Burmi-Dano on the 3rd.

The difficulty in finding a good fit for Stafford anywhere reinforces the case for moving him this off-season.

 

[Evil Little]

So what does everyone think is more damaging to us the terrible PK or terrible PP? If you had a choice and could only choose one to fix which one would it be?

To me I would choose to fix the PP, it's so frustrating to watch and when you are given a chance to tie up a game or get a late goal and the PP just can't do anything it makes me want to pull my hair out.

Is there magic involved? Because the PP seems a lot more involved to fix than the PK.

If we've got some fairy godcoaching may as well spend that on the PP and just subtract Stuart and add Hellebuyck to see how far that takes the PK.

I can't remember where I posted it, but the Jets are about the same in 5v5 stats compared to last season. The big dips have been in PK and goaltending, with a dip in shooting %, too. Jets went from 9th to 25th in 5v5 PDO (save% + shooting%) from last season. Our goaltending was much better last year, and our shooting luck was a bit better last year.

Agreed. While there are certainly some real issues that need to be addressed, the Jets as they stand are the opposite of one of those PDO-darlings: terrible teams that go on a tear and can't figure out what went wrong the next season.

The Jets are the best all-around team in the Matthews discussion, by far.

 

[ps241]

Hey guys, I missed the game last night. Does anyone know why Postma only played 6 minutes?

Paul really doesn't seem to get Paul

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hutch? Trouba and scheifele maybe didnt regress, but they certainly didnt take the step forward fans were expecting in their 2nd year. Its completely unreasonable IMO to think Armia will be a 2nd line player next year.

Hutch hasn't had a sophomore slump. He has improved from his post ASB rookie year.

Scheifele hasn't taken a step forward? More like about 8 steps.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

I don't know what annoys me more: Toe Mash Tatar or John Micheal Lyles

I remember an announcer in the 80's that used to refer to Toe Mash Steen for Jets 1.0...

 

[surixon]

Hutch hasn't had a sophomore slump. He has improved from his post ASB rookie year.

Scheifele hasn't taken a step forward? More like about 8 steps.

I think he meant in his second year. But even then he took a pretty big step forward in his all around play. Trouba also took a substantial step forward his 2nd year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I am taking about this season which yes includes the decisions in the offseason that puts the team on the ice at the beginning of the season.

We've iced Lipon, Copp, Petan, Armia, Ehlers, Burmi (rookie reborn - the KHL can do that to you), Halischuk, Cormier, Dano, Petan. I might have missed one - not sure. Ehlers is a gem - great. Say what you want, but that's a lot 'youth movement' to manage in and out of the lineup in one season. Then add in our regulars who just aren't very good like Stu, Peluso, Thorburn. So is it really just our goaltending and special teams? We didn't light up the win column when Helle was here. It's deeper than that if you ask me.

Helle doesn't PK or play the PP and he didn't reduce our penalty count a bit. For a while we had better goaltending and for a while we had a better record.

The only rookie regulars we have are Ehlers, Copp and Armia who are all improvements to the lineup. The rest you named are injury replacements who have only got in a few games, mostly 4th line for few minutes. Several we had last year when we made the POs. Thor, Peluso and Halischuk aren't the difference between last year and this year either. Penalties got even worse. Special teams got even worse and goaltending got even worse. The only one that isn't coaching is goaltending and it might be related to coaching too.

Did Chevy go out and strengthen last year's roster? No. Should he have? Highly debatable.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So what does everyone think is more damaging to us the terrible PK or terrible PP? If you had a choice and could only choose one to fix which one would it be?

To me I would choose to fix the PP, it's so frustrating to watch and when you are given a chance to tie up a game or get a late goal and the PP just can't do anything it makes me want to pull my hair out.

I think it was Maurice who was quoted as saying that a bad PP won't lead to losing but a bad PK will. Or words to that effect.

Our PP this year has been way beyond bad and beyond frustrating. It is embarrassing when they have the extra man and can barely get possession much less set up in the O zone. It is embarrassing when they have a 5 min PP and don't get a single shot on net. Good Grief!

Good special teams can also swing the momentum of a game. It is hard to pick one over the other but considering how many penalties we take I would vote for the PK. I would rather we take half as many penalties and I could vote for the PP. But really I want both.

BTW, how has our PK been with Stu out? Holding together OK without him? IIRC it is now 6 games without giving up a PP goal though one was just a couple of secs. after.

 

[Gm0ney]

So what does everyone think is more damaging to us the terrible PK or terrible PP? If you had a choice and could only choose one to fix which one would it be?

To me I would choose to fix the PP, it's so frustrating to watch and when you are given a chance to tie up a game or get a late goal and the PP just can't do anything it makes me want to pull my hair out.

The lousy PK is a bit more damaging in terms of the Jets' goal diff. A median PP% would mean 5 more goals for. A median PK% would mean 7 fewer goals against. The way the Jets take penalties, PK seems like the best bet if you could only fix one. And as has been pointed out frequently, getting the league's worst penalty killer off the PK probably goes a long way to solving that problem...

 

[Crocket]

The lousy PK is a bit more damaging in terms of the Jets' goal diff. A median PP% would mean 5 more goals for. A median PK% would mean 7 fewer goals against. The way the Jets take penalties, PK seems like the best bet if you could only fix one. And as has been pointed out frequently, getting the league's worst penalty killer off the PK probably goes a long way to solving that problem...

I think I would go for the PP with a major effort in reducing penalties. We just simply get too many. And 5 on 5, I like our chances, to get a bonus PP goal or two is the difference. We often lose by just one goal.

 

[Crocket]

Did anyone else see when you watch the replay of Kronwall tripping (kneeing) Wheeler, he drives his arm into the back of Wheeler's head? Obviously on purpose. I hate that guy. He's thrown some really dirty hits imo and he does little things like that that really piss me off. It was dirty, attempting to hurt someone.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't know what annoys me more: Toe Mash Tatar or John Micheal Lyles

I remember an announcer in the 80's that used to refer to Toe Mash Steen for Jets 1.0...

Liles is worse IMO.

I think he meant in his second year. But even then he took a pretty big step forward in his all around play. Trouba also took a substantial step forward his 2nd year.

Yeah, I'm sure that is what he meant. It just didn't happen. If Trouba took a step back it was this year. I think his play without Stu confirms the cause of that.

 

[Gm0ney]

I think I would go for the PP with a major effort in reducing penalties. We just simply get too many. And 5 on 5, I like our chances, to get a bonus PP goal or two is the difference. We often lose by just one goal.

Stu, Peluso and Thorburn in the pressbox would help greatly with reducing the number of penalties the Jets take. Those are 3 of the Top 5 Jets in Minors/60 this year (and all-time):

Peluso: 3.22 (#1 in the NHL! (for players with > 25 games played))
Byfuglien: 1.48 (#33 - coincidence?)
Thorburn: 1.38 (#38)
Stuart: 1.19 (#75)
Perreault: 0.99 (#125)

Buff's a problem. Wouldn't be so bad if he got the benefit of the doubt from the refs occasionally.

All time Jets Minors/60 Leaders (2011-12 - present, >100 gp)
1. Peluso: 2.28
2. Byfuglien: 1.32
3. Kane: 1.32
4. Stuart: 1.29
5. Thorburn: 1.20
...
25. Kyle Wellwood: 0.11

Speaking of Wellwood, he's 2nd in Points/60, 2011-12 - present, > 100gp. (Top 10 in order: Wheeler, Wellwood, Perreault, Ladd, Kane, Little, Scheifele, Frolik, Antropov, Byfuglien).

 

[Whileee]

Stu, Peluso and Thorburn in the pressbox would help greatly with reducing the number of penalties the Jets take. Those are 3 of the Top 5 Jets in Minors/60 this year (and all-time):

Peluso: 3.22 (#1 in the NHL! (for players with > 25 games played))
Byfuglien: 1.48 (#33 - coincidence?)
Thorburn: 1.38 (#38)
Stuart: 1.19 (#75)
Perreault: 0.99 (#125)

Buff's a problem. Wouldn't be so bad if he got the benefit of the doubt from the refs occasionally.

All time Jets Minors/60 Leaders (2011-12 - present, >100 gp)
1. Peluso: 2.28
2. Byfuglien: 1.32
3. Kane: 1.32
4. Stuart: 1.29
5. Thorburn: 1.20
...
25. Kyle Wellwood: 0.11

Speaking of Wellwood, he's 2nd in Points/60, 2011-12 - present, > 100gp. (Top 10 in order: Wheeler, Wellwood, Perreault, Ladd, Kane, Little, Scheifele, Frolik, Antropov, Byfuglien).

Well, Peluso can be excused, because he's 6th on the Jets in points/60 this season, ahead of Ehlers, Buff, Myers, Trouba, Enstrom, etc.

 

[WinnipegWinter*]

Hutch hasn't had a sophomore slump. He has improved from his post ASB rookie year.

Scheifele hasn't taken a step forward? More like about 8 steps.

If you can't admit that Hutch hasn't taken a step back than you must be drinking the same kool-aid as Maurice

And I'm referring to Scheifele's 2nd year. People who are penciling in Armia for the 2nd line next year are the same fans who went crazy when Jokinen and Setoguchi were signed. You need to temper your expectations a little bit

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If you can't admit that Hutch hasn't taken a step back than you must be drinking the same kool-aid as Maurice

And I'm referring to Scheifele's 2nd year. People who are penciling in Armia for the 2nd line next year are the same fans who went crazy when Jokinen and Setoguchi were signed. You need to temper your expectations a little bit

You misunderstand my point. He hasn't taken a step back from his post ASB play from last year. In fact he has halfway recovered. So it isn't a sophomore slump. It was a second half rookie year slump. Take last part of last year as the starting pount and he is much better.

Scheif's second year was better than his first. There was no step back.