Post-Game Talk: Jets Lose Tank On 3-2

[Whileee]

I feel like we could probably move on from Enstrom. He still has a few years left and should fetch a decent return. For the money his possession metrics and his drop off in play this year visually (could be wrong) makes me feel like we wouldn't miss him much.

Enstrom has a full no-move clause in his contract. Even if he waived that, it would certainly limit the options.

He hasn't been as good this year as previous years, but he looks much better recently than he did earlier in the season. They should probably keep him at least until they have another good top-4 LD option to replace him.

 

[WinnipegWinter*]

I agree with this. I was a bit more encouraged by Dano's play - he was a bit quicker. I still think he needs to gain half a step to be really effective. But he's smart and has good hands, and he doesn't mind working the boards.

Burmi has been generating a lot of chances lately. He also seems to be moving the puck more quickly, especially in the neutral zone. He has a lot of skill and works hard.

Going forward, I think we'll have an abundance of forward depth, and some decisions will need to be made in the next 2-3 years about who to keep. If we keep the top line fixed, there is a lot of fluidity in the other 9 forward spots.

Top 3: Ehlers, Scheifele, Wheeler
Middle 6: Little, Perreault, Connor, Stafford, Armia, Burmi, Lowry, Dano, Petan (that's 9)
Bottom 3: Copp, Thorbs, Lemieux, Lipon, etc.

For next season?

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler
Perreault-Little-Armia
Burmi-Lowry-Stafford
Lemieux-Copp-Thorbs

AHL: Dano, Petan, Lipon, Kosmachuk, De Leo

NCAA: Connor, Roslovic, Foley

CHL: Spacek, Harkins

KHL, etc.: Kraskovsky

Lemieux might start in the AHL, with Dano or Petan on the 4th line, but I think it would be best for Dano and Petan to play top-9 if with the Jets. Lemieux seems like a better fit on the 4th line, but we'll see in training camp.

I could see Stafford or maybe Burmi being moved in the next year to make room for Dano and/or Petan in the top 9.

That second line scares me a bit.. Especially in our conference and division. I could see them really struggling, especially if Armia regresses like most of our 2nd year players tend to.

 

[castle]

That second line scares me a bit.. Especially in our conference and division. I could see them really struggling, especially if Armia regresses like most of our 2nd year players tend to.

I think you may be extrapolating a bit much from a sample of two (Chiarot and Lowry). Scheifele never regressed, and has gotten better every year. I didn't see regression in Trouba either.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Please no to Burmi-Lowry-Stafford... that experiment failed miserably. Lowry should never be more than a 4th line C who plays PK imo. I'd rather see Dano-Burmi-Stafford and have Lemieux start in the A.

 

[Crocket]

definitely weren't playing with their heads tonight - that was a top 5 candidate for worst games of the season

woof

Not sure what game you were watching. Horrible giveaway, not the best 2nd period but other than that we were in that game. Plus, playing against a team fighting for their lives. We are missing most of our top players.

 

[Crocket]

One thing about Burmi, he tries hard, hits and is more skilled than many guys on the lower 6. He doesn't finish plays well but it's hard not to like his effort, good PK guy too.

 

[Whileee]

That second line scares me a bit.. Especially in our conference and division. I could see them really struggling, especially if Armia regresses like most of our 2nd year players tend to.

You could flip Armia and Stafford.

Ehlers-Scheif-Wheeler
Perreault-Little-Stafford
Burmi-Lowry-Armia
etc.

 

[Whileee]

One thing about Burmi, he tries hard, hits and is more skilled than many guys on the lower 6. He doesn't finish plays well but it's hard not to like his effort, good PK guy too.

Burmi does seem to be playing a more effective style recently. I'm hoping it's not just a positive "blip" in his play....

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[WinnipegWinter*]

I think you may be extrapolating a bit much from a sample of two (Chiarot and Lowry). Scheifele never regressed, and has gotten better every year. I didn't see regression in Trouba either.

Hutch? Trouba and scheifele maybe didnt regress, but they certainly didnt take the step forward fans were expecting in their 2nd year. Its completely unreasonable IMO to think Armia will be a 2nd line player next year.

 

[buggs]

Hutch? Trouba and scheifele maybe didnt regress, but they certainly didnt take the step forward fans were expecting in their 2nd year. Its completely unreasonable IMO to think Armia will be a 2nd line player next year.

Re: Trouba ->Stu-factor.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

A few thoughts:

I actually start believing that the staff and team doesn't play to win anymore. They play to show they're competitive, give younger guys a shot who want to make a name for themselves and play a good hockey game for at least 30 minutes every game. They can achieve everything they would want that way (like giving more ice time to players like Burmi and Dano to see what they achieve with top 6 minutes), score some goals to proof they are still able to do it, don't allow too many goals because it doesn't feel and look good and if you lose the game after 60 minutes, who cares.

Sure, individually, players want to score a goal, make a nice play, a good save, maybe even outshoot the opponent. Wheeler represents my thoughts the most. Ever since Ladd was traded and Little got injured and Wheels was pretty much the only top forward left, I think he stopped playing at 100%. He sure looks a lot more coasting out there. He has 2 goals and 3 assists over the last 10 games. Pretty "meh" stats for his standards and TOI.

Dano looked a lot more comfortable on the ice after scoring his first. I'm quite confident we'll see a big step up once he found his place on this team. Might not be this season because the team and roster is all over the place but giving him top 6 minutes until the end of the season would be a good idea IMO. Let him build confidence on his new team which he can take over into the summer. He'll be looking forward to next season.

Halischuk once again showed why he is our best prototypical 4th line player IMO.

Burmistrov has 1 goal and 4 assists over the last 10 games with 15 shots on goal.

In his last 10 games before those 10 games, he had 1 goal 0 assists and 13 shots on goal (4 out of those 13 came against NJD which is really a lot for his standards this season).

With Ladd gone followed by injuries to Little, Ehlers and Armia there isn't a lot of choice available.

Stafford loses a bit playing the left side. Wheeler loses a lot playing with Stafford. Solution is to put Stafford at 2RW. So who plays 1LW? MP? Then who plays 2C? Burmi? At 2C? So the 2nd line is Lowry-Burmi-Stafford. Yikes! Who's left for the 3rd line?

Around and around we go. Counting Ladd we are missing half our top 6 plus another from our top 9. Our bad 4th line is now our scary 3rd line.

Really they are doing pretty well under the circumstances. This is not a lot better than an AHL team we are starting.

Now it looks like we might be missing Buff for a while. Enstrom is playing hurt and our best D callup (only one really) is also hurt. Maybe Kostalek gets a look with the Jets.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It must be hard for some of these guys, like little and wheeler. They get a taste of being on a solid team last year, that had been improving year over year. Now, it looks like another couple/few years of futility as we re-build or re-tool or whatever you want to call unloading or trading NHL ready talent for young guys that may or may not have much of an NHL career in front of them, and draft picks that may or may not turn out to have an NHL career in front of them.

I feel bad for these guys. Yeah, I know they are professionals and get paid a lot of money. But they would be professionals getting paid a lot of money on a competitive team as well. Competitive doesn't have to mean going deep in the playoffs either. But at least to feel like you have a decent shot. Right now, we are not even really competitive, other than competing for the bottom of the league.

I agree it must be hard for those veteran players but I don't know what you are talking about with the bolded. We moved 1 player, Ladd who we couldn't come to agreement on a contract with. Or are you referring back to Frolik and Stempniak again? That was so long ago I almost forgot. We might have been a little better with those 2 but our PP and PK were crap when we had them too. We took way too many penalties when we had those players and they wouldn't fix our goaltending. Those are the reasons we ****** the bed this year not because we brought in some younger players.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I agree it must be hard for those veteran players but I don't know what you are talking about with the bolded. We moved 1 player, Ladd who we couldn't come to agreement on a contract with. Or are you referring back to Frolik and Stempniak again. That was so long ago I almost forgot. We might have been a little better with those 2 but our PP and PK were crap when we had them too. We took way too many penalties when we had those players and they wouldn't fix our goaltending. Those are the reasons we ****** the bed this year not because we brought in some younger players.

Pretty much bang on. Not sure what young players people are even referring to actually. Ehlers? He's been good. Armia? He's been good and started on the Moose. Petan? Didn't even play 10 games with the Jets.

It's not the young players, it's the PK, PP and Goalies and these vets like Frolik and Stemp make no difference. Look at Calgary, they are just barely above us in the standings, Frolik has made such a huge difference there.

I don't get this young players stuff, Yeah Lowry struggled to start the year, yeah Burmi struggled but he's not a rookie, Ehlers,Petan and Armia really are the only rookies on the team and i don't even know if i'd consider Armia a rookie exactly. He's played some pro hockey for a couple years now.

IMO, the young players like Ehlers, Like Armia, Like Scheif, Like Trouba... they have been our bright spots along with Wheeler and Buff.

 

[leafster7]

Love this streak.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I agree it must be hard for those veteran players but I don't know what you are talking about with the bolded. We moved 1 player, Ladd who we couldn't come to agreement on a contract with. Or are you referring back to Frolik and Stempniak again. That was so long ago I almost forgot. We might have been a little better with those 2 but our PP and PK were crap when we had them too. We took way too many penalties when we had those players and they wouldn't fix our goaltending. Those are the reasons we ****** the bed this year not because we brought in some younger players.

I am taking about this season which yes includes the decisions in the offseason that puts the team on the ice at the beginning of the season.

We've iced Lipon, Copp, Petan, Armia, Ehlers, Burmi (rookie reborn - the KHL can do that to you), Halischuk, Cormier, Dano, Petan. I might have missed one - not sure. Ehlers is a gem - great. Say what you want, but that's a lot 'youth movement' to manage in and out of the lineup in one season. Then add in our regulars who just aren't very good like Stu, Peluso, Thorburn. So is it really just our goaltending and special teams? We didn't light up the win column when Helle was here. It's deeper than that if you ask me.

 

[Koonta]

So what does everyone think is more damaging to us the terrible PK or terrible PP? If you had a choice and could only choose one to fix which one would it be?

To me I would choose to fix the PP, it's so frustrating to watch and when you are given a chance to tie up a game or get a late goal and the PP just can't do anything it makes me want to pull my hair out.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

any Big Buff news?

 

[Potrzebie]

So what does everyone think is more damaging to us the terrible PK or terrible PP? If you had a choice and could only choose one to fix which one would it be?

To me I would choose to fix the PP, it's so frustrating to watch and when you are given a chance to tie up a game or get a late goal and the PP just can't do anything it makes me want to pull my hair out.

I would choose the PK. With the enormous amount of penalties this team takes it's like spotting the other team a 2 goal lead most nights.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

PK, easily. PP is fun, PK can ensure you don't end up having to chase the score.

 

[Duke749]

That second line scares me a bit.. Especially in our conference and division. I could see them really struggling, especially if Armia regresses like most of our 2nd year players tend to.

This comment makes zero sense to me. Little and Perreault have proven time and time and time and time again that they can handle the conference and division(even considering this notion is basically false that the west is bigger and tougher blah blah blah). And if Little is forced to the 2nd center position, it simply means Scheif has continued to improve and can handle the top minutes better then Little, thus making Little's job easier then it has been since the move.

 

[Whileee]

So what does everyone think is more damaging to us the terrible PK or terrible PP? If you had a choice and could only choose one to fix which one would it be?

To me I would choose to fix the PP, it's so frustrating to watch and when you are given a chance to tie up a game or get a late goal and the PP just can't do anything it makes me want to pull my hair out.

I think it's the PK, especially with the Jets' penchant for having a high PK/PP ratio.

I think the PK is substantially better without Stuart, even though Ladd and Little have been replaced by young guys like Copp and Armia. Thorbs on the PK better not last long - he's not nearly quick enough to play that role. Maybe he's good fodder for shot-blocking with the Jets' strategy of collapsing and not really pressuring anywhere from the dots and outward.

 

[kxx]

I think Dano is improving each game so far. Was not sold on him at all originally but each game seems to get slightly better and he's continued so far. Still has a lot to prove but nice to see him get his first as a Jet.

Myers goal was a beauty.

Love seeing those type of goals because they just seem like high quality, confident shots as opposed to our sometimes comical lack of finish (probably very biassed but seems like we hit the more posts than any other team. Is there a stat for that?)

Looked like 2 defensive breakdowns lead to 2 of those goals last night. I think there was only 1 that Hutch really could have stopped.

What happened to Buff? I only saw a bit of the game (highlights). Looked like he had a nice breakaway that almost lead to a goal.

 

[Whileee]

I agree it must be hard for those veteran players but I don't know what you are talking about with the bolded. We moved 1 player, Ladd who we couldn't come to agreement on a contract with. Or are you referring back to Frolik and Stempniak again. That was so long ago I almost forgot. We might have been a little better with those 2 but our PP and PK were crap when we had them too. We took way too many penalties when we had those players and they wouldn't fix our goaltending. Those are the reasons we ****** the bed this year not because we brought in some younger players.

I can't remember where I posted it, but the Jets are about the same in 5v5 stats compared to last season. The big dips have been in PK and goaltending, with a dip in shooting %, too. Jets went from 9th to 25th in 5v5 PDO (save% + shooting%) from last season. Our goaltending was much better last year, and our shooting luck was a bit better last year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree with this. I was a bit more encouraged by Dano's play - he was a bit quicker. I still think he needs to gain half a step to be really effective. But he's smart and has good hands, and he doesn't mind working the boards.

Burmi has been generating a lot of chances lately. He also seems to be moving the puck more quickly, especially in the neutral zone. He has a lot of skill and works hard.

Going forward, I think we'll have an abundance of forward depth, and some decisions will need to be made in the next 2-3 years about who to keep. If we keep the top line fixed, there is a lot of fluidity in the other 9 forward spots.

Top 3: Ehlers, Scheifele, Wheeler
Middle 6: Little, Perreault, Connor, Stafford, Armia, Burmi, Lowry, Dano, Petan (that's 9)
Bottom 3: Copp, Thorbs, Lemieux, Lipon, etc.

For next season?

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler
Perreault-Little-Armia
Burmi-Lowry-Stafford
Lemieux-Copp-Thorbs

AHL: Dano, Petan, Lipon, Kosmachuk, De Leo

NCAA: Connor, Roslovic, Foley

CHL: Spacek, Harkins

KHL, etc.: Kraskovsky

Lemieux might start in the AHL, with Dano or Petan on the 4th line, but I think it would be best for Dano and Petan to play top-9 if with the Jets. Lemieux seems like a better fit on the 4th line, but we'll see in training camp.

I could see Stafford or maybe Burmi being moved in the next year to make room for Dano and/or Petan in the top 9.

Yup. Quite a few decisions. Quite a few contenders for positions.

I think Connor is better than 50/50 to be with the Jets next year. Lipon has not looked the least out of place on the 4th line and is more likely to be there than Lemieux. Kosmachuk has also shown well in his 2 games so has a chance. I notice you didn't pencil in this year's 1st anywhere. Just as well since it is pretty speculative at this point.

I think there will be a decision to be made on Stafford. I don't think he will be extended but should he be moved in the off-season or at the TD? That might be affected by this year's draft as well as by Connor. We may need an opening on the 3rd line.

Thor will be another decision. Will he be on the 4th line out of TC or will he be in the PB?

I like your lineup well enough although 3C could be Burmi, Perreault or Petan instead of Lowry. I would put Connor in and come up with this:

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler
Perreault-Little-Armia
Connor-Burmi-Stafford
Lowry-Copp-Lipon
Thor, Peluso

Depending on how well he progresses Connor could move up later in the season. Perreault would then move to 3C.

I'm tempted to move Stafford and put Dano at 3RW but I think I will leave that until after the lottery. If we get a top 3 pick it is more likely that we will add a F directly from the draft. That would make Stafford surplus.

I would definitely try to move Peluso. If there is any GM out there who wants a specialist fighter they could have him cheaply. If he can't be moved I would send him to the A if the numbers squeeze him out of the PB.

AHL: Dano, Petan, Kosmachuk, De Leo

NCAA: Roslovic, Foley

CHL: Spacek, Harkins

KHL, etc.: Kraskovsky

That gives us a very young and inexperienced forward corps. It would likely mean another year with a lottery pick and a tank thread. By the year after though even the callups from the Moose should be well developed. We should start making the play-offs then.

 

[Scheifele55]

I am happy that the Jets are losing close games! They are tanking but also playing great. I call it Pavelec hockey. Ondrej Pavelec plays good enough to lose. He could stop 40/41 shots and lose 1-0. Then stop 14/18 and lose 4-3.