Jets goaltending discussion (part 3)

[cbcwpg]

Speaking of goalies, Has anyone heard anything about where Pav might end up?

Running his hockey school?

http://en.ondrejpavelec.eu/


**

“He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.â€Â

Future goalie coach of the Jets...

 

[buggs]

I'm cool with Elliott, but want to see the dollars and term we're commiting to him. Hopefully no more than two years.

I'm guessing he'll push for three years. $3.1 per is my guess.

Thanks. Two l's and two t's. I'll make sure I never misspell Elloitt's name again.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Big fan of the Elliott rumours. People wanted a good tandem goalie at the end of the season, and here we are, about to sign a good tandem goalie. Some people will never be happy, but the jets are better with Elliott than without him.

I was hoping for more of an up-and-coming goalie like Raanta or Darling. Elliott is someone who can help tide us over a year or two until Hellebuyck is hopefully ready. Which is fine, I guess. BUt I would have liked someone who would be fighting to establish himself as our #1 goalie.

The price on Darling wasn't very high - a third round pick. But he did sign a 4x$4.15 mil contract. The price on Raanta was high - the #7 pick in the draft, but included Derek Stepan, so hard to say what the price alone would be.

There's certain posters with a really obvious axe to grind about our GM. But there's room for legitimate discussion about what you would have preferred CHevy to have done.

 

[Skobel24]

Decent goalie, inconsistent though. Don't expect him to move the puck. Good option for a 1A/B for short term.

 

[HannuJ]

I'm cool with Elliott, but want to see the dollars and term we're commiting to him. Hopefully no more than two years.

it has to be either a 1 or 2 year contract.
i'd be floored if it was for more.
i'm guessing that it's $1.8 mil/year

 

[WPGChief]

Seems more like after the cat was out of the bag with "Elliott seeking tentative accommodations" and Overhardt tried to step back being like "Well, he's being contacting by MANY teams...", Jets counter with leaking this bit of info out. How convenient!

I still would rather have Mason than Elliott.

 

[cbcwpg]

I was hoping for more of an up-and-coming goalie like Raanta or Darling. Elliott is someone who can help tide us over a year or two until Hellebuyck is hopefully ready. Which is fine, I guess. BUt I would have liked someone who would be fighting to establish himself as our #1 goalie.

The price on Darling wasn't very high - a third round pick. But he did sign a 4x$4.15 mil contract. The price on Raanta was high - the #7 pick in the draft, but included Derek Stepan, so hard to say what the price alone would be.

There's certain posters with a really obvious axe to grind about our GM. But there's room for legitimate discussion about what you would have preferred CHevy to have done.

We will never know who the Jets might have been looking at and if they were in on Darling or Raanta with a serious chance, but I do wonder if the Jets are concerned or at least cognizant about whom they might sign and the effect on Helly. It's one thing to bring in a goalie that can mentor or support Helly and split the game load, but it's another to bring in a guy who is good enough to push Helly to a 15 game role and slow down his development. To the Jets maybe getting a guy like Fleury who you knew will only accept being the #1 guy, would have been an issue.

Not sure what the Jets are thinking on this... or are we just at the point of getting whomever we can?

 

[Skobel24]

it has to be either a 1 or 2 year contract.
i'd be floored if it was for more.
i'm guessing that it's $1.8 mil/year

I'd guess 2 years, 2.5 per year.

 

[DougieSmail]

Don't you want to make the playoffs in your ball hockey league?

I'm confident he'll go on a hot streak the last week of our season to allow us to sneak into a final playoff spot

 

[Grind]

i'm ok with elliot.

I'd be happier probably with bernier.

but i am ok with elliot.

elliot is not sexy.

elliot is average.

average is good.

 

[Grind]

i thought i'd prefer mason to elliot, but i think i'd prefer bernier to both and i'm now non-comittal between the two.

 

[bennysflyers16]

i thought i'd prefer mason to elliot, but i think i'd prefer bernier to both and i'm now non-comittal between the two.

OF the available, Mase is by far the best imo.

 

[objectiveposter]

Elliott will be an upgrade over Hutch, but he should be the last resort, not first resort. After 6 poor seasons Chevy owes the fans a great season of goaltending. All I see with Elliott/Helle is more seasons of average/ below average goaltending.
Trouba, Ehlers, Morrissey and Laine are going to get massive pay raises soon....the time to win is now. Its year 7. Just getting back into the playoffs is not good enough.

Once again some fans/Chevy have set the bar low in Winnipeg.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

My friend's brother's girlfriend's mom's hairdresser said he was looking for a vehicle here already too.

I like your avatar, loupie.

 

[Board Bard]

This is a fair point, and I think you are right. It is easy to get sucked into the mentality of thinking that Chevy is just chilling at his cottage, but in reality he is probably trying to work deals and we would all be shocked to learn one day just how hard he's worked and things just haven't worked because players weren't willing to come to Winnipeg, or teams weren't willing to deal for whatever reason, etc.

I frequently forget this so thanks for the reminder.

Real life is not like GM mode on NHL '17.

I think he probably spends considerable time on players with NMC/NTC, so that's pretty much a waste of time to start with. For the remainder, he probably tries to lowball them too much in FA (Perrault, Joker and Stafford being three he didn't lowball, with mostly meh results), or he cheaps out in a trade because it's so important to him to keep his 20th-place team together. I also think he too often targets what the analytics people would consider the wrong players. So in total he might be trying but he's not being very smart or effective at it. But those are just guesses.

 

[Grind]

OF the available, Mase is by far the best imo.

as a statistical stickler I must disagree.

though thats just off sv%, i don't know a good place to find quality starts/evs%/etc. I don't pretend to know a lot about goalies except that their one job is to top as many pucks as possible.

bernier thus far has stopped 91.5% of pucks. Mason has stopped 91.1% and thats the gap between slightly below average to above average.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Shouldn't this and the Elliott threads go into the overall goalie thread?

At some point we'll probably merge, but this is newsworthy enough for a standalone thread.

 

[bennysflyers16]

as a statistical stickler I must disagree.

though thats just off sv%, i don't know a good place to find quality starts/evs%/etc. I don't pretend to know a lot about goalies except that their one job is to top as many pucks as possible.

bernier thus far has stopped 91.5% of pucks. Mason has stopped 91.1% and thats the gap between slightly below average to above average.

Last year was a bad year for Mase, but then look at the D he played behind last few years and his numbers get a lot more impressive.

He at 3 years in Wpg will get them to the playoffs. Either with his play or Helly beating him out, Jets should be in decent shape imo.

 

[RustyCat]

I like Mason so it would be nice to see that come together. I would love to know what particular competencies (not statistics) they are looking for and how they are grading them.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

as a statistical stickler I must disagree.

though thats just off sv%, i don't know a good place to find quality starts/evs%/etc. I don't pretend to know a lot about goalies except that their one job is to top as many pucks as possible.

bernier thus far has stopped 91.5% of pucks. Mason has stopped 91.1% and thats the gap between slightly below average to above average.

Mason's career save percentage is muddled by three crappy seasons in Columbus as a young goalie, a time where he probably should have been developing in the AHL. His last four seasons paint a much different picture:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201317&sit=5v5&pos=goalies&minutes=1000&teamid=0&type=shots&sort=SvPct&sortdir=DESC

To be clear, I'm usually not a fan of slicing and dicing goalie samples. Mason owns those horrible years he played with the Blue Jackets, but there's a case to be made that he was rushed in too early. Basically caught lightning in a bottle as a 20 year old rookie with Columbus, and was a victim of his own early success.

 

[raideralex99]

I'm happy with Elliot too but if his numbers go down ... maybe just maybe Chevy may want to get a new goalie coach.

 

[MardyBum]

Elliott will be an upgrade over Hutch, but he should be the last resort, not first resort. After 6 poor seasons Chevy owes the fans a great season of goaltending. All I see with Elliott/Helle is more seasons of average/ below average goaltending.
Trouba, Ehlers, Morrissey and Laine are going to get massive pay raises soon....the time to win is now. Its year 7. Just getting back into the playoffs is not good enough.

Once again some fans/Chevy have set the bar low in Winnipeg.

So who did you want?

 

[Grind]

Last year was a bad year for Mase, but then look at the D he played behind last few years and his numbers get a lot more impressive.

He at 3 years in Wpg will get them to the playoffs. Either with his play or Helly beating him out, Jets should be in decent shape imo.

to be clear i don't "dislike" mason.

just that the "context" of the numbers is usually way overblown, and at the end of the day they ten to tell a more accurate story by themselves then with "which season was bad?" "what team was he on?" "who was he dating?" "what color of stick was he using?".

again, i'm no expert, but in aggregate bernier's performed better thus far. His sample is also considerably smaller. So while bernier "looks" like a .915, he may only be a .911, or maybe even a .905. on the other hand masons seen enough puck that we can pretty safely say he "is" a .911

 

[WerdnaG]

i thought i'd prefer mason to elliot, but i think i'd prefer bernier to both and i'm now non-comittal between the two.

Bernier has the upside of being younger.

 

[Grind]

Bernier has the upside of being younger.

this too.