Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVII)

[ps241]

Chevy is not Holmgren. I can't see a Bogosian trade happening unless Bogo specifically asks for one. It would be a very unloyal unTNSE move.

Yea its not going to happen with Bogosian anytime soon but this is a non game day and we are on a trade thread and we all know trade threads are pretty much fiction novels anyways.....light and fluffy and good to pass time

 

[Guerzy]

I would really still love to see Byfuglien traded for B. Schenn + L. Schenn. I know Luke is at a big time low right now but I still believe there is a real quality NHL defenseman in there, much like there was with Bogosian pre-Jets. He's shown quality play before, it just doesn't disappear at 23-24 years of age or in your early 20's. Luke will figure it out but it won't be in Philly. I think adding the Schenn brothers here would give us two really good building blocks and cornerstones headed forward. Two guys who could make their careers here and be Jets for a long, long time.

And who knows, can Luke play left side? can Trouba? If not, then yes, Luke Schenn at 3.6 million per is a hefty price for a 3rd pairing guy behind Bogosian and Trouba, but he sure would add great depth if one of the right side guys had an injury (like right now!). I think we could fit him in. Our 'core' is locked up, the cap is going to go up.

Byfuglien at 5.2 for Brayden Schenn at 3.11 and Luke Schenn at 3.6 leaves a small difference of 1.51 million, pretty small and quite easy to get around cap space wise if we needed/wanted to.

I'd love for the day to come where I come online here to see this deal has went through. I'd jump for joy.

The future years of this team would be in good hands as far as I am concerned with Kane, B. Schenn, Scheifele, Bogosian, Trouba, L. Schenn, Morrissey, etc. Maybe Burmistrov comes back? Not to mention vets in Little, Wheeler, Enstrom are tied up for a good number of years yet, and hopefully Ladd will be to going forward. Add in some prospects in the system, this years 1st round pick, Petan, Lowry, Kosmochuk, Comrie, etc.. some may make it, others won't.. but it's an intriguing mix to me.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

From what I am hearing it could very well be a possibility that Jets indeed make that move for the Schenns.

 

[Huffer]

From what I am hearing it could very well be a possibility that Jets indeed make that move for the Schenns.

Buff or Bogo?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Buff or Bogo?

Philly would love Bogo but I doubt that is going to happen. Unless the Jets were in such a tank spot maybe but TNSE is very loyal and they don't hand out those long term deals then move guys.

I would say Buff/Burmistrov are trade bait. I know they are listening to offers on Kane but really unless something blows them away he isn't going anywhere.

A part of me would love that deal since I have been watching Brayden play since Bantam. But with the way Buff has played would we have won these past few games or tied the last one without him?

I do know one thing. The maturation of Trouba has given them a bevy of top end D talent and they have the Luxury of moving 1 of them for some help.

 

[Huffer]

Question to everyone regarding "The Schenns".

Is it just defacto that to get Brayden, you have to take Luke? I'm not saying Luke is garbage, but a RHD, even if we trade a RHD, is not our most pressing need.

Basically, in a hypothetical situation where Chevy and Homer are talking, and the idea of Buff going to Philly is discussed, if Brayden and Luke were not brothers, would you want the plus on Brayden to be Luke?

If I'm Chevy, and Homer wants Buff, I start with Brayden and some other piece that the Jets could use more. Like a Simmonds, or a Read. Then, if you can get that worked out, try to make a smaller deal to "reunite the brothers", if that is something you want to do.

 

[Guerzy]

From what I am hearing it could very well be a possibility that Jets indeed make that move for the Schenns.

That is encouraging. It would be ideal with Bogosian and Trouba out, though Trouba is coming back soon by the likes of it. Real good opportunity to get Luke Schenn in and filling a big void.

Getting Brayden Schenn would just fill a huge, huge, huge organizational need both in the present and future. Even if he is only a 55-60 point centre on average throughout his career (I still think he can be a 70 point centre), having him and Little and Scheifele (depending on how he pans out) sets us up strong down the middle. Hopefully much like Boston with Krejci and Bergeron. Not big, elite point producers but good enough to be a contender.

Byfuglien + Burmistrov for Brayden Schenn + Luke Schenn, sign me up. I've been long calling for this. The deal makes a lot of sense given the needs of both teams.

 

[Guerzy]

Question to everyone regarding "The Schenns".

Is it just defacto that to get Brayden, you have to take Luke? I'm not saying Luke is garbage, but a RHD, even if we trade a RHD, is not our most pressing need.

Basically, in a hypothetical situation where Chevy and Homer are talking, and the idea of Buff going to Philly is discussed, if Brayden and Luke were not brothers, would you want the plus on Brayden to be Luke?

If I'm Chevy, and Homer wants Buff, I start with Brayden and some other piece that the Jets could use more. Like a Simmonds, or a Read. Then, if you can get that worked out, try to make a smaller deal to "reunite the brothers", if that is something you want to do.

You're likely right here, Huffer.

It's tough, I admittedly haven't watched a whole lot of Luke Schenn at all, but the truth is at one point he showed quite a bit of promise as a young defenseman, and as far as I am concerned that just doesn't disappear in your early 20's. What I read and hear on Luke these days are exactly what we read and heard on Bogosian pre-Jets.

Whether his name is Schenn or whatever, I have to think there is a defenseman in there that can be rediscovered given what he's previously shown in his NHL career. Would not be the first time a young defenseman in his early 20's has been inconsistent or struggled. Well worth taking him on, in my opinion. Especially when we can put him in the coaching and guidance of Huddy, and we've all seen what he has done with a young Bogosian. He went from the garbage going out on the curb in Atlanta to a 7 year contract.

Truth be told, I would trade Byfuglien for Brayden Schenn straight up, no questions asked, and I wouldn't think twice about it. Maybe I am wrong but I think within 2-3 years we look back and that would be a good deal. Brayden is young, but he is going to be a top 2 centre in my opinion and he is going to be at minimum a 55-60 point guy. Maybe he isn't "yet" but he is going to get there, I believe. I have already given my thoughts on Byfuglien here, but if we can trade him for a top 2 centre, I'm game.

Big, physical, top 2 centres are hard to come by. Brayden Schenn would fit the bill for this organization for years to come in my opinion. Especially in such a critical area of the depth chart. I know what I am saying is likely a bit silly "today", and we could (and should) get more than just Brayden Schenn for Dustin Byfuglien "today", which I understand. I just think in a couple years when Schenn is entering/in his prime, he'll be a reliable horse and stud.

 

[truck]

Question to everyone regarding "The Schenns".

Is it just defacto that to get Brayden, you have to take Luke? I'm not saying Luke is garbage, but a RHD, even if we trade a RHD, is not our most pressing need.

Basically, in a hypothetical situation where Chevy and Homer are talking, and the idea of Buff going to Philly is discussed, if Brayden and Luke were not brothers, would you want the plus on Brayden to be Luke?

If I'm Chevy, and Homer wants Buff, I start with Brayden and some other piece that the Jets could use more. Like a Simmonds, or a Read. Then, if you can get that worked out, try to make a smaller deal to "reunite the brothers", if that is something you want to do.

I really wouldn't consider Luke to be anything more than a toss in.

I wouldn't hate him on the 3rd pair, but I don't think of him very highly.

Simmonds or Read would be nice, but I think adding another quality player would make Brayden hella more expensive.

 

[Grind]

You're likely right here, Huffer.

It's tough, I admittedly haven't watched a whole lot of Luke Schenn at all, but the truth is at one point he showed quite a bit of promise as a young defenseman, and as far as I am concerned that just doesn't disappear in your early 20's. What I read and hear on Luke these days are exactly what we read and heard on Bogosian pre-Jets.

Whether his name is Schenn or whatever, I have to think there is a defenseman in there that can be rediscovered given what he's previously shown in his NHL career. Would not be the first time a young defenseman in his early 20's has been inconsistent or struggled. Well worth taking him on, in my opinion. Especially when we can put him in the coaching and guidance of Huddy, and we've all seen what he has done with a young Bogosian. He went from the garbage going out on the curb in Atlanta to a 7 year contract.

Truth be told, I would trade Byfuglien for Brayden Schenn straight up, no questions asked, and I wouldn't think twice about it. Maybe I am wrong but I think within 2-3 years we look back and that would be a good deal. Brayden is young, but he is going to be a top 2 centre in my opinion and he is going to be at minimum a 55-60 point guy. Maybe he isn't "yet" but he is going to get there, I believe. I have already given my thoughts on Byfuglien here, but if we can trade him for a top 2 centre, I'm game.

Big, physical, top 2 centres are hard to come by. Brayden Schenn would fit the bill for this organization for years to come in my opinion. Especially in such a critical area of the depth chart. I know what I am saying is likely a bit silly "today", and we could (and should) get more than just Brayden Schenn for Dustin Byfuglien "today", which I understand. I just think in a couple years when Schenn is entering/in his prime, he'll be a reliable horse and stud.

I personally don't think moving buff for two forward pieces really makes a tonne of sense. I know having another young winger would be nice but I can't see philly moving any of them + schenn. Reads to cheap, he's worth too much to philly due to the value regards to cap-hit vs production.

Simmonds and Voracek i feel both are worth too much to be the addition to Schenn. We'd be adding a lot back and id rather not. Hartnell's too old. Downies a ufa next year. I just don't see it. I think it has to be Schenn and a D coming back.

Luke makes the most sense age wise. C

Coburn is probably their best D right now, can't imagine they'd move him + Schenn. They won't move Kimmo (though that'd really drive the Enstrom haters nuts ) and can't imagine we'd have interest in Streit.

That leaves SChenn, Gustafson, Grossman or Mezsaros.

Of those, i want Schenn or Gustaffsson...but i think the ceilings higher with Schenn, and i don't think it work for Philly capwise if we take Gus.

 

[Guerzy]

I personally don't think moving buff for two forward pieces really makes a tonne of sense. I know having another young winger would be nice but I can't see philly moving any of them + schenn. Reads to cheap, he's worth too much to philly due to the value regards to cap-hit vs production.

Simmonds and Voracek i feel both are worth too much to be the addition to Schenn. We'd be adding a lot back and id rather not. Hartnell's too old. Downies a ufa next year. I just don't see it. I think it has to be Schenn and a D coming back.

Luke makes the most sense age wise. C

Coburn is probably their best D right now, can't imagine they'd move him + Schenn. They won't move Kimmo (though that'd really drive the Enstrom haters nuts ) and can't imagine we'd have interest in Streit.

That leaves SChenn, Gustafson, Grossman or Mezsaros.

Of those, i want Schenn or Gustaffsson...but i think the ceilings higher with Schenn, and i don't think it work for Philly capwise if we take Gus.

Nice breakdown, Grind. And, given how poorly Luke has played this year it seems pretty logical Philly would want to part ways if they could.

It may just be "feel good" but to me having both Schenn's is a plus, for both of them. Both can be solid, respectable to great players in the NHL as far as I am concerned. Luke may be more of a "throw-in" in a deal like this, but there is tons of potential there for this throw-in to be a big part of the organization for many years. Adding Brayden and Luke Schenn would be a big stamp on the Winnipeg Jets for Kevin Cheveldayoff.

 

[untouchable21]

What about Laughton as the additional piece to Brayden Schenn? Is that too much or too little to ask for as a plus from a JETS standpoint?

 

[Gm0ney]

Buff's actual results in terms of goals for and against at 5 on 5 when he's on the ice have been slightly negative since the franchise moved to Winnipeg. And at 5 on 4 (PP) he's got one of the worst GF/GA ratios in the NHL of anyone who's played more than 200 PP minutes (.825, 206th out of 232 players, for the 2011-12 + 2012-13 seasons).

His GF/GA ratio is a terrible .429 so far this year - but his ES on-ice SV% is a shabby .891 (3rd lowest on the team - 21st out of 23) so that's dragging things down. The fancystats folks would have us believe that the Jets goalies' low save percentage while he's out there is just a coincidence...pure puck luck. Last year he was 14/24 (.909) and in 2011-12 he was 26/30 (.905).

But his Corsi's real nice... 4th out of 23 this year!

You can play around with all those stats here: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=2&type=goals&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

 

[Grind]

What about Laughton as the additional piece to Brayden Schenn? Is that too much or too little to ask for as a plus from a JETS standpoint?

I think that's too much from one well for philly to stomache.

Schenn's available becaue of the emergence of Laughton and Couturier. I don't think you get 2C's from philly without adressing more then one area of weakness ont heir roster.

 

[Huffer]

I really wouldn't consider Luke to be anything more than a toss in.

I wouldn't hate him on the 3rd pair, but I don't think of him very highly.

Simmonds or Read would be nice, but I think adding another quality player would make Brayden hella more expensive.

That's sort of what I was getting at. If we're talking about Brayden Smith and Luke Johnson, I don't know if anyone here is really hoping the plus on Brayden is Luke.

I would like to see Brayden here as well. Agree with others in regards to the addition of the centre depth.

It may just be me, but I think we're underselling the worth of a top pairing D man, who puts up as much points as Buff does, and plays as physical as Buff does. That certainly is worth a very big plus on Brayden in my books. Sure Buff has his warts, but the guy is second in D scoring, in talks to play in the Olympics, and can manhandle two guys at one time (). It feels like we're too eager to eat our own here.

And if the Jets are adding in Burmi, I would definitely be asking for Brayden and Simmonds / Read.

 

[Guerzy]

That's sort of what I was getting at. If we're talking about Brayden Smith and Luke Johnson, I don't know if anyone here is really hoping the plus on Brayden is Luke.

I would like to see Brayden here as well. Agree with others in regards to the addition of the centre depth.

It may just be me, but I think we're underselling the worth of a top pairing D man, who puts up as much points as Buff does, and plays as physical as Buff does. That certainly is worth a very big plus on Brayden in my books. Sure Buff has his warts, but the guy is second in D scoring, in talks to play in the Olympics, and can manhandle two guys at one time (). It feels like we're too eager to eat our own here.

And if the Jets are adding in Burmi, I would definitely be asking for Brayden and Simmonds / Read.

All valid points here, Huffer, and I can agree with you.

I think with Luke though, we still have to remember that he made way to the NHL at 18 years old right out of his draft, and long before Brayden. Luke himself was a top 5 pick and he showed some really nice tools and strides as a young NHL defenseman. I think much like Bogosian, it's fair to say there is a quality defenseman in there, with or without the name Schenn on his back. People (not saying you, Huffer) are so quick to kick young struggling defenseman to the curb with this weeks trash at such an early age. Bogosian/Atlanta is an absolute prime example. Whether he is a Schenn or a Johnson, Luke has enough of a resume for me to think he can rediscover his game and be a big asset here. We may get him in a poor condition, like Bogosian, but if he turns the page... that's a gamble and piece to a potential trade well worth taking in my opinion.

 

[Huffer]

All valid points here, Huffer, and I can agree with you.

I think with Luke though, we still have to remember that he made way to the NHL at 18 years old right out of his draft, and long before Brayden. Luke himself was a top 5 pick and he showed some really nice tools and strides as a young NHL defenseman. I think much like Bogosian, it's fair to say there is a quality defenseman in there, with or without the name Schenn on his back. People (not saying you, Huffer) are so quick to kick young struggling defenseman to the curb with this weeks trash at such an early age. Bogosian/Atlanta is an absolute prime example. Whether he is a Schenn or a Johnson, Luke has enough of a resume for me to think he can rediscover his game and be a big asset here. We may get him in a poor condition, like Bogosian, but if he turns the page... that's a gamble well worth taking in my opinion.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Maybe Luke becomes real solid for us. We'll still have to move one of Bogo, Trouba, or Luke to the left at some point though right?

I guess I'm not so much saying I "don't want Luke", but more of, if Luke wasn't Brayden's brother, would any of us be saying that he would be the guy we would want added?

Does it make the MOST sense to the Jets from an asset management, and player value perspective?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I would be upset if it was Buff for B and L Schenn. I'm just wondering if that's the best deal for us, or just a convenient deal.

 

[Grind]

All valid points here, Huffer, and I can agree with you.

I think with Luke though, we still have to remember that he made way to the NHL at 18 years old right out of his draft, and long before Brayden. Luke himself was a top 5 pick and he showed some really nice tools and strides as a young NHL defenseman. I think much like Bogosian, it's fair to say there is a quality defenseman in there, with or without the name Schenn on his back. People (not saying you, Huffer) are so quick to kick young struggling defenseman to the curb with this weeks trash at such an early age. Bogosian/Atlanta is an absolute prime example. Whether he is a Schenn or a Johnson, Luke has enough of a resume for me to think he can rediscover his game and be a big asset here. We may get him in a poor condition, like Bogosian, but if he turns the page... that's a gamble and piece to a potential trade well worth taking in my opinion.

Yep. I agree that i think some people are seeking out Schenn just because of his name (luke schenn) but beyond that, i think he is the perfect throw in.

Young enough to have upside, enough current skill to play A role, and a cap hit that works for both teams.


Regardless of his name, Yes, I do believe Luke Schenn is the "ideal" throw in when you concern the overall logistics/net benefit.

now, does that mean were selling Buff short? Yah, we could be. But I have to admit, if we think we "might" be selling short, i'm willing to say that's probably making up for any "homerism" overvaluation. we're not selling ourselves, WAAAY short.

 

[Guerzy]

Yep. I agree that i think some people are seeking out Schenn just because of his name (luke schenn) but beyond that, i think he is the perfect throw in.

Young enough to have upside, enough current skill to play A role, and a cap hit that works for both teams.


Regardless of his name, Yes, I do believe Luke Schenn is the "ideal" throw in when you concern the overall logistics/net benefit.

now, does that mean were selling Buff short? Yah, we could be. But I have to admit, if we think we "might" be selling short, i'm willing to say that's probably making up for any "homerism" overvaluation. we're not selling ourselves, WAAAY short.

Indeed, Grind.

Like I said previously here in this thread, Brayden is just still a bit unproven, but if I had to guess I think we could deal Byfuglien for B. Schenn straight up, and there is a good chance we look back on it within 2-3 years and think... real good trade.

That's how much I think of Brayden Schenn. Kid hasn't put it all together just yet, but he will in my opinion and when he does, he will be a horse down the middle, and a legit and reliable centreman. And they don't grow on tree's and they surely are not easy to acquire.

 

[Huffer]

Yep. I agree that i think some people are seeking out Schenn just because of his name (luke schenn) but beyond that, i think he is the perfect throw in.

Young enough to have upside, enough current skill to play A role, and a cap hit that works for both teams.


Regardless of his name, Yes, I do believe Luke Schenn is the "ideal" throw in when you concern the overall logistics/net benefit.

now, does that mean were selling Buff short? Yah, we could be. But I have to admit, if we think we "might" be selling short, i'm willing to say that's probably making up for any "homerism" overvaluation. we're not selling ourselves, WAAAY short.

So you're saying that if there was an equivalent player in value to Luke Schenn on the Flyers roster in a different position, you would still want a RHD as the added piece in a potential trade?

He's the exact opposite from an "ideal" throw in from a Jets needs standpoint.

 

[Grind]

So you're saying that if there was an equivalent player in value to Luke Schenn on the Flyers roster in a different position, you would still want a RHD as the added piece in a potential trade?

He's the exact opposite from an "ideal" throw in from a Jets needs standpoint.

No, i would take a Left handed dman. The point is no one else fits everything as well as he does.

who would you target?


there's isn't a perfect fit on that roster, when you consider that it has to be something the other team would want.


Realistically i don't know who you'd be targeting without adding significantly.

seriously..who do you see as a better fit? Your putting a bit too much weight on his handedness

 

[truck]

That's sort of what I was getting at. If we're talking about Brayden Smith and Luke Johnson, I don't know if anyone here is really hoping the plus on Brayden is Luke.

I would like to see Brayden here as well. Agree with others in regards to the addition of the centre depth.

It may just be me, but I think we're underselling the worth of a top pairing D man, who puts up as much points as Buff does, and plays as physical as Buff does. That certainly is worth a very big plus on Brayden in my books. Sure Buff has his warts, but the guy is second in D scoring, in talks to play in the Olympics, and can manhandle two guys at one time (). It feels like we're too eager to eat our own here.

And if the Jets are adding in Burmi, I would definitely be asking for Brayden and Simmonds / Read.

People do undersell Buff's value, but...

Others undersell the value of a 22 year old centre who can already slot into a top 6 role and put up 50 or so points. I mean he is no Seguin, but a young 2nd line centre with 1st line upside is a sizable asset too.

 

[Guerzy]

People do undersell Buff's value, but...

Others undersell the value of a 22 year old centre who can already slot into a top 6 role and put up 50 or so points. I mean he is no Seguin, but a young 2nd line centre with 1st line upside is a sizable asset too.

This is my line of thinking right here.

Making a trade for a top 2 centre in this day and age seems like an incredibly difficult task. Especially one who is a few years away from even entering his "prime" as they say, and most all-around, reliable years of his career. Brayden JUST turned 22 three months ago in August. An addition of B. Schenn could really help this franchise for years and years. This would be the type of move that really elevates us by filling such an integral role.

 

[buggs]

But if we trade Byfuglien what will they do with the Bobbleheads for the Carolina game in March?

 

[Majikme]

Really really really hate myself for saying it, but would rather trade Bogo than buff...