Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVII)

[InjuredChoker]

what would jets be looking for return on kane? young players, proven players, picks and/or prospects?

that is assuming he's traded, just speculating.

 

[garret9]

what would jets be looking for return on kane? young players, proven players, picks and/or prospects?

that is assuming he's traded, just speculating.

His age is perfect for the Jets build, who are not diving down for picks or contenders.

It would have to be a lateral player-for-player type hockey trade me thinks.

 

[InjuredChoker]

His age is perfect for the Jets build, who are not diving down for picks or contenders.

It would have to be a lateral player-for-player type hockey trade me thinks.

that's what i thought (was afraid) too. can't make solid offer then.

 

[pcanuck]

if Kane is traded, we're throwing in the towel, period.

 

[larmex99]

if kane is traded, we're throwing in the towel, period.

agreed!

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Apparently Flyers forward Brayden Schenn is "quietly available". I would do dirty things for B. Schenn. Including taking on his brother. I be willing to part with Bogosian for the Schenns. Philly likely adds still to that (picks/prospects) but a big physical D (replaces Stuart, fits better longterm when Clitsome heads to 3rd pairing like he should) and #1B C? Yes please!

When healthy.
Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Schenn - Setoguchi
Scheifele - Jokinen - Frolik
Tangradi - Slater - Halischuk
Thorburn

Enstrom - Byfuglien
Clitsome - Trouba
Ellerby - Schenn
Stuart - Postma

Pavelec
Montoya

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

I would do dirty things for B. Schenn. Including taking on his brother.

me too

 

[wpgsilver]

I'd rather work around a Buff for B. Schenn deal.
I think Buff has VERY high value now, and my big concern with Buff has always been how will his play degrade with age. He's a big man, and he's far from a gym rat, I'm concerned that in a couple years he'll be a shell of himself.

 

[JetsFan815]

I'd rather work around a Buff for B. Schenn deal.

God no. I'd trade Bogo for the Schenn brothers but Buff is far too valuable for the team to be traded for Braden Schenn. He's an elite offensive defenseman. Trading a top 5 offensive defensemen for a player that is at best like Brian Little (excluding Little's current year) does not seem like a wise idea. Buff is going to give you as many if not slightly more points as a DMan as B. Schenn is gonna give you as a forward. If Buff is to be traded then we need more firepower coming our way (think Voracek+ )

 

[sully1410]

Apparently Flyers forward Brayden Schenn is "quietly available". I would do dirty things for B. Schenn. Including taking on his brother. I be willing to part with Bogosian for the Schenns. Philly likely adds still to that (picks/prospects) but a big physical D (replaces Stuart, fits better longterm when Clitsome heads to 3rd pairing like he should) and #1B C? Yes please!

When healthy.
Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Schenn - Setoguchi
Scheifele - Jokinen - Frolik
Tangradi - Slater - Halischuk
Thorburn

Enstrom - Byfuglien
Clitsome - Trouba
Ellerby - Schenn
Stuart - Postma

Pavelec
Montoya

You would know better then me, but hasn't Brayden Schenn had a ton of struggles finding his pro game? I wasn't really aware that he had been rocking the joint as of late, so that would hinder me in being ok with trading Bogosian for him.

 

[wpgsilver]

God no. I'd trade Bogo for the Schenn brothers but Buff is far too valuable for the team to be traded for Braden Schenn. He's an elite offensive defenseman. Trading a top 5 offensive defensemen for a player that is at best like Brian Little (excluding Little's current year) does not seem like a wise idea. Buff is going to give you as many if not slightly more points as a DMan as B. Schenn is gonna give you as a forward. If Buff is to be traded then we need more firepower coming our way (think Voracek+ )

Did you intentionally not quote my justification or just decide to ignore it.
I agree Buff is an elite ([edit] ) offensive defencemen. I like Buff, I think if we were close to contending he would be a great player to have.
My logic, which you ignored, is that I think buff is a depreciating asset. By the time we are contending I don't think he'll be the Dustin Byfuglien he is today.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

This Buff love really needs to stop. Everyone needs some perspective. For every great small stretch he has multiple boneheaded plays follow. Trading Bogo when you can deal Buff is sheer lunacy.

 

[garret9]

This Buff love really needs to stop. Everyone needs some perspective. For every great small stretch he has multiple boneheaded plays follow. Trading Bogo when you can deal Buff is sheer lunacy.

While there is the point of asset management with age and declining / growing assets, I believe you have the ratio of good : bad plays backwards.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

While there is the point of asset management with age and declining / growing assets, I believe you have the ratio of good : bad plays backwards.

Yup: Buff is a very "big event" guy, so his big bad moments have a tendency to stick in ones mind.

 

[King Woodballs]

This Buff love really needs to stop. Everyone needs some perspective. For every great small stretch he has multiple boneheaded plays follow. Trading Bogo when you can deal Buff is sheer lunacy.

Buff has done more good then bad for this team in their time back in Winnipeg.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving either one of those d men.
I think Buff is the more trade able asset however.

 

[ps241]

While there is the point of asset management with age and declining / growing assets, I believe you have the ratio of good : bad plays backwards.

What do the advanced stats say about Brayden Schenn. I am guilty of watching our team too much and I haven't really focused on Schenn when we play the flyers?

 

[ps241]

BUff is such a unique guy and now is not a bad time to discuss trading him since he is hot as a pistol. On the plus side when he he is on he is our most dominant player and can single handedly take over games and get us wins. I fully believe the advanced stats when they say he does more good than bad and he is a net positive defender. If he was gone I think we would miss him allot more than people think. Buff is now 3rd in D scoring behind only Karlsson and Suban so he is elite at generating offense.


On the negative. when he is off its pretty ugly and although he has improved at picking his spots he still makes glaring errors that can cost us games. fortunalty most of his mistakes come from when we are behind and he starts pressing (or at least that's what I have seen with my eye). His next contract could be a killer and he is not getting younger. I do worry about his durability due to lifestyle and the weight he carries.....is this season of better fitness a trend or a "one off"?

I am not in a rush to trade either Bogo or Buff......the advantage of trading Buff is that we would be robbing from the older core to build around the younger core (something we are going to need to start doing in the next two seasons)....the advantage of trading Bogo is we might get more for him based on his age, contract, current talent, and potential but I might be wrong.

I sense Chevy and co are pretty set on Bogo but I might be wrong and I don't think they are the type of organization to sign a long term deal and flip a player this quickly so in the real world I don't see Bogo getting moved for a few years at the earliest. However this is the new NHL and "theses deals" to lock up core players (aging or young) seem to be table stakes now and I wouldn't be suprises to see "more" trades coming off recently extended core players on all teams....I know I am taking in circles a bit on it I am just not sure how teams are going to adjust to the new lower cap.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

BUff is such a unique guy and now is not a bad time to discuss trading him since he is hot as a pistol. On the plus side when he he is on he is our most dominant player and can single handedly take over games and get us wins. I fully believe the advanced stats when they say he does more good than bad and he is a net positive defender. If he was gone I think we would miss him allot more than people think. Buff is now 3rd in D scoring behind only Karlsson and Suban so he is elite at generating offense.


On the negative. when he is off its pretty ugly and although he has improved at picking his spots he still makes glaring errors that can cost us games. fortunalty most of his mistakes come from when we are behind and he starts pressing (or at least that's what I have seen with my eye). His next contract could be a killer and he is not getting younger. I do worry about his durability due to lifestyle and the weight he carries.....is this season of better fitness a trend or a "one off"?

I am not in a rush to trade either Bogo or Buff......the advantage of trading Buff is that we would be robbing from the older core to build around the younger core (something we are going to need to start doing in the next two seasons)....the advantage of trading Bogo is we might get more for him based on his age, contract, current talent, and potential but I might be wrong.

I sense Chevy and co are pretty set on Bogo but I might be wrong and I don't think they are the type of organization to sign a long term deal and flip a player this quickly so in the real world I don't see Bogo getting moved for a few years at the earliest. However this is the new NHL and "theses deals" to lock up core players (aging or young) seem to be table stakes now and I wouldn't be suprises to see "more" trades coming off recently extended core players on all teams....I know I am taking in circles a bit on it I am just not sure how teams are going to adjust to the new lower cap.

I would not want to trade Bogo either, but if you could get B. Schenn IMO you do it. In particular with getting a decent project in L. Schenn as well. B. Schenn is just starting to come around into the player he is projected to be, a young Mike Richards. Plays with an edge, good hands, responsible in both ends of the rink, smart player. Took Richards a few years to figure it out as well. Luke Schenn has struggled to find his game, but still has some upside.

With regards to Buff, I am a huge fan. He is the most unique talent in the NHL, IMO. Nobody else can do the things he does. I would not want to trade him. I'd trade Bogosian over him, TBH, I think Bogosian's talent set can be more easily replaced down the road.

Just fyi, the lower cap is only imposed on this season. Next season people are expecting cap to go up to 75+ million. Based on last season the cap should have been 72-74 million this year. It's going to allow for a lot of flexibility going forward.

 

[Jet]

Reasons why Byfuglien for the Schenn's makes a heck of a lot more sense than Bogosian for the Schenn's:

Byfuglien's has 2 years left after this year and then is a UFA. Bogo is ours for 5 more years.

Buff's value in trade will start to steeply decline as his time under contract falls below 2 years.

Bogosian seems far more connected to Winnipeg than Buff. Hockey is of course the largest component of being an NHL player but community connection and involvement is super important. I could see Bogosian being a lifer, raising his kids here, doing things for the city, etc. This could lead to a re-sign afterwards which means we keep an asset for much, much longer with Bogo vs. Buff.

Byfuglien, when hot, is a one of a kind in the NHL. When he is off of his game, he is a liability. I go back to the last Chicago game where he lumbered around the ice and was a major component in 3 goals against, the first coming as the Jets were actually playing the Hawks very close. The debate around here, in my mind, is how much of his play is good vs. bad. I think if there is a debate on that, there is a problem.

When you look at the Jets D corps and see what it needs, it needs more stability. when you look at the 2 defensemen in question, you see that Bogosian is a defense first guy. You have to know that he is still getting better, and his problems this year could be attributed to a lingering groin issue. Removing Bogosian and adding Schenn makes this D corps worse, not better. Losing Buff takes some offense from the backside but we still have guys who can do it. Enstrom, Clitsome, Postma, even Bogosian and Ellerby all have that component in their game to a varying degree.

On to what the teams want in real life: The Jets by signing Bogo to a 6 year deal said they really love him and want him here. I highly doubt that has changed in 2 months. Buff was not signed by this org. Philly has been oft connected to Buff, and there have been rumours for quite a while they want Dustin.

So, those are all the reasons I think that trading 33 for the Schenns is not only more realistic, but more likely.

 

[ps241]

I would not want to trade Bogo either, but if you could get B. Schenn IMO you do it. In particular with getting a decent project in L. Schenn as well. B. Schenn is just starting to come around into the player he is projected to be, a young Mike Richards. Plays with an edge, good hands, responsible in both ends of the rink, smart player. Took Richards a few years to figure it out as well. Luke Schenn has struggled to find his game, but still has some upside.

With regards to Buff, I am a huge fan. He is the most unique talent in the NHL, IMO. Nobody else can do the things he does. I would not want to trade him. I'd trade Bogosian over him, TBH, I think Bogosian's talent set can be more easily replaced down the road.

Just fyi, the lower cap is only imposed on this season. Next season people are expecting cap to go up to 75+ million. Based on last season the cap should have been 72-74 million this year. It's going to allow for a lot of flexibility going forward.

I am all for getting the team better and for me there are no untouchables on our squad including Bogosian (even though I am a fan). I am a bit surprised you would move a younger core player rather than an older core player though even given what Buff brings?

B Schenn is the same age as Kane so he is still a really young guy....would he be a number 1 centre one day or is he more the solid number 2 centre? Its hard to imagine getting both Schenn's for Bogosian but Hommer is a touch insane so who knows?

 

[Guerzy]

I would trade Byfuglien in a package for the Schenn brothers, in the blink of an eye. Add Burmistrov, picks, etc.. whatever ya gotta do, but I'd be really pushing to move Byfuglien in order to upgrade an area of need. He is the most realistic trading piece we have, in my opinion. With Bogosian on a fresh 7-year deal with a full NMC, I think that speaks volumes to how the organization views him. I can't see him going anywhere any time soon. Bogosian and Trouba are the future top 2 RH defenseman here.

Also, with Byfuglien having a couple more seasons after this one remaining on his current contract, the time to trade him in order to maximize the return is inching closer and closer. If a team is going to pay a hefty price for him, they're likely going to want him at least a guaranteed couple of seasons. Teams will still pay for a 1-year rental, but it may be more of a "futures" type of deal and in my opinion we don't need that, we need a deal centered around a young player like Brayden Schenn who can step in now and be a cornerstone in the future. The clock is ticking. Lastly, I do not see Byfuglien finishing out his current contract (and re-signing) here in Winnipeg. Call it a hunch, I guess.

I like Byfuglien when he is 'on' but I cannot stand him when he is 'off' and given our organization and defensive unit counts on him to such a significant degree, he just isn't my cup of tea. I'd trade him for the right deal in a heartbeat and not think twice about it. When your team relies so heavily on a guy who is 'on' one night and 'off' the next, it'll give you fits; and it does give us fits and in my opinion Byfuglien is one of the key issues here with this team and it's 'on' and 'off' play as well as it's lack of consistency. He's a focal point, but he is not a reliable one as far as I am concerned.


EDIT: And I agree with all of what Jet said!

 

[Huffer]

Reasons why Byfuglien for the Schenn's makes a heck of a lot more sense than Bogosian for the Schenn's:

Byfuglien's has 2 years left after this year and then is a UFA. Bogo is ours for 5 more years.

Buff's value in trade will start to steeply decline as his time under contract falls below 2 years.

Bogosian seems far more connected to Winnipeg than Buff. Hockey is of course the largest component of being an NHL player but community connection and involvement is super important. I could see Bogosian being a lifer, raising his kids here, doing things for the city, etc. This could lead to a re-sign afterwards which means we keep an asset for much, much longer with Bogo vs. Buff.

Byfuglien, when hot, is a one of a kind in the NHL. When he is off of his game, he is a liability. I go back to the last Chicago game where he lumbered around the ice and was a major component in 3 goals against, the first coming as the Jets were actually playing the Hawks very close. The debate around here, in my mind, is how much of his play is good vs. bad. I think if there is a debate on that, there is a problem.

When you look at the Jets D corps and see what it needs, it needs more stability. when you look at the 2 defensemen in question, you see that Bogosian is a defense first guy. You have to know that he is still getting better, and his problems this year could be attributed to a lingering groin issue. Removing Bogosian and adding Schenn makes this D corps worse, not better. Losing Buff takes some offense from the backside but we still have guys who can do it. Enstrom, Clitsome, Postma, even Bogosian and Ellerby all have that component in their game to a varying degree.

On to what the teams want in real life: The Jets by signing Bogo to a 6 year deal said they really love him and want him here. I highly doubt that has changed in 2 months. Buff was not signed by this org. Philly has been oft connected to Buff, and there have been rumours for quite a while they want Dustin.

So, those are all the reasons I think that trading 33 for the Schenns is not only more realistic, but more likely.

Totally agree Jet.

This org didn't go out and sign Bogo long term to then go around and trade him right away. Could they do that? Sure. Does anyone think this org wants to trade Bogosian?

Buff has been pretty great this year. I don't know if I would want to trade either right now. But if the Jets did want to trade one of them to change up the lineup, Buff is the guy.

Age wise it makes infinitely more sense. If Buff is traded for some younger pieces, they would fit much better with Bogo's age than the other way around. Buff and Bogo are also polar opposites in terms of fitness. Buff has gotten himself in good shape this year and its shown, but Bogo is much more likely to be a healthy contributor well into his 30's.

Contract wise it makes infinitely more sense. Bogo has 6 years left and Buff has 2 years left.

Last year when the Buff and Philly rumors were out there, Tessier opined that the two Schenns wouldn't be enough. Buff has now been great this year, Luke has struggled, and not only are we not talking about Buff, but we're talking about moving Bogo?

I can see the Jets wanting Brayden, but why would we want Luke? Even if we traded one of Buff or Bogo, Luke would be the 3rd best RHD on the team. And he's making 3.6 million and has 2 years left on his deal. Change Luke to someone like Simmonds or Read and that makes much more sense for the Jets IMO.

 

[truck]

Reasons why Byfuglien for the Schenn's makes a heck of a lot more sense than Bogosian for the Schenn's:

Byfuglien's has 2 years left after this year and then is a UFA. Bogo is ours for 5 more years.

Buff's value in trade will start to steeply decline as his time under contract falls below 2 years.

Bogosian seems far more connected to Winnipeg than Buff. Hockey is of course the largest component of being an NHL player but community connection and involvement is super important. I could see Bogosian being a lifer, raising his kids here, doing things for the city, etc. This could lead to a re-sign afterwards which means we keep an asset for much, much longer with Bogo vs. Buff.

Byfuglien, when hot, is a one of a kind in the NHL. When he is off of his game, he is a liability. I go back to the last Chicago game where he lumbered around the ice and was a major component in 3 goals against, the first coming as the Jets were actually playing the Hawks very close. The debate around here, in my mind, is how much of his play is good vs. bad. I think if there is a debate on that, there is a problem.

When you look at the Jets D corps and see what it needs, it needs more stability. when you look at the 2 defensemen in question, you see that Bogosian is a defense first guy. You have to know that he is still getting better, and his problems this year could be attributed to a lingering groin issue. Removing Bogosian and adding Schenn makes this D corps worse, not better. Losing Buff takes some offense from the backside but we still have guys who can do it. Enstrom, Clitsome, Postma, even Bogosian and Ellerby all have that component in their game to a varying degree.

On to what the teams want in real life: The Jets by signing Bogo to a 6 year deal said they really love him and want him here. I highly doubt that has changed in 2 months. Buff was not signed by this org. Philly has been oft connected to Buff, and there have been rumours for quite a while they want Dustin.

So, those are all the reasons I think that trading 33 for the Schenns is not only more realistic, but more likely.

Not gonna disagree with much of what you said, but what if...

Zach Bogosian continues to perform like an inconsistent #3D / bandaid.

Trading Buff makes more sense, but betting on Bogo still carries some risk IMO.

If his recent regression makes them nervous it could be cause for pause when there analyze comparative value.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Chevy is not Holmgren. I can't see a Bogosian trade happening unless Bogo specifically asks for one. It would be a very unloyal unTNSE move.

 

[ps241]

Not gonna disagree with much of what you said, but what if...

Zach Bogosian continues to perform like an inconsistent #3D / bandaid.

Trading Buff makes more sense, but betting on Bogo still carries some risk IMO.

If his recent regression makes them nervous it could be cause for pause when there analyze comparative value.

Yea tough to have the ability to look into the future or this would be too easy