Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 Part VIII

[Mortimer Snerd]

At times it is a bit slow for my liking as well, but it is far preferable to the shoot from the hip and knee jerk reaction approach.

There is a pretty wide space between those 2 extremes.

 

[CaptainChef]

Whatever happens with Ladd in the next couple of weeks, I'm really looking forward to the poll as to whether people are happy with the decision to sign/trade him. And I suppose the responses will be coloured by the terms of a deal or what we get in trade, but in general, I'm curious to see whether the majority of our posters support keeping or trading him.

Of course, there is that pesky third option. I don't think we would need a poll to find out if people are happy with the decision to neither sign nor trade Ladd by the deadline.

Its not even close -- at least 3/4 favor trading him; have seen few responses that suggest they want to keep him really.

 

[robertocarlos]

If Jets get a second round pick for Ladd that would be enough. It all depends on what Ladd is asking. 6 million no way, 5 million maybe, 4.5 million OK sign him for 5 years.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

If Jets get a second round pick for Ladd that would be enough. It all depends on what Ladd is asking. 6 million no way, 5 million maybe, 4.5 million OK sign him for 5 years.

They'll get more than a 2nd for Ladd.

 

[Constable]

ok im gonna do that whole maybe trouba gets traded thing cause ive beat ladd to death enough

trouba+for brodin+

 

[Grind]

ok im gonna do that whole maybe trouba gets traded thing cause ive beat ladd to death enough

trouba+for brodin+

Ew.

I'd rather do trouba for hamonic plus, but inthink the plus would have to be pretty damn significant

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Its not even close -- at least 3/4 favor trading him; have seen few responses that suggest they want to keep him really.

That could change drastically depending on the details. If (big if I know) they anticipate a depressed UFA market because of a falling cap and lower their sights accordingly I might swing back to keeping him. He is still a very good player. OTOH approval of the trade option also depends on what comes back.

If Jets get a second round pick for Ladd that would be enough. It all depends on what Ladd is asking. 6 million no way, 5 million maybe, 4.5 million OK sign him for 5 years.

Ladd is worth far more than a 2nd even in the worst TD market ever. A second only has something like a 35% chance of ever becoming a useful NHL player. Ladd is a first line winger even in this off season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

ok im gonna do that whole maybe trouba gets traded thing cause ive beat ladd to death enough

trouba+for brodin+

Brodin is nowhere close to equalling Trouba. That would be true even if Trouba has already peaked.

 

[Constable]

Brodin is nowhere close to equalling Trouba. That would be true even if Trouba has already peaked.

what

what

how

how is he not? minnesota is WORSE than us this year they just werent painfully mediocre at the start

 

[sully1410]

what

what

how

how is he not? minnesota is WORSE than us this year they just werent painfully mediocre at the start

Brodin has some pretty awful underlying numbers.

 

[KingBogo]

There has to be a middle ground though. You can't always just wait always see...sometimes you need to act and be actually proactive, not just getting **** done when your hnd is forced.

Agreed. But I'd prefer he grind out negotiations to get the best possible deal and in terms of moving a player at the TD you are usually best served to allow the market to heat up in an attempt to get a bit of a bidding war going. Saying that I'll feel much more comfortable when the Ladd situation is settled.

 

[sully1410]

Agreed. But I'd prefer he grind out negotiations to get the best possible deal and in terms of moving a player at the TD you are usually best served to allow the market to heat up in an attempt to get a bit of a bidding war going. Saying that I'll feel much more comfortable when the Ladd situation is settled.

And I agree with that as well...but I have a hard time understanding why a contract renewal is being even entertained at this point in time. I don't think it's what is best for the team long term. Buff us one thing because he is such a dynamic force out on the ice, but they probably should have traded him as well. The core as it stands is not good enough...and it isn't good enough because our fearless GM didn't do enough in any of the off seasons since the ream arrived in the peg to make it so.

This team could have be a playoff team if our bottom six was stronger and our left defense was stroger and we had a better goalie...but instead Chevy doubled down on the weak areas of the team instead of upgrading them.

And now here we are, near the bottom of the league, burning another year of our core and another year of our cost controlled assets...and we are contimplating re upping guys to long term deals when we are currently in the bottom five? I think it's more then obvious that the core, as is, just isn't good enough. Why is Chevy still pretending that it is?

 

[robertocarlos]

Ladd is worth far more than a 2nd even in the worst TD market ever. A second only has something like a 35% chance of ever becoming a useful NHL player. Ladd is a first line winger even in this off season.

Will the Jets get an early first or a late first for Ladd? Probably a late first and is that more of an 80% chance of playing in the NHL? So then they need a prospect as well? If the Cap is dropping 4 million there won't be that strong a market but maybe not as bad as a 2nd pick only.

 

[KingBogo]

And I agree with that as well...but I have a hard time understanding why a contract renewal is being even entertained at this point in time. I don't think it's what is best for the team long term. Buff us one thing because he is such a dynamic force out on the ice, but they probably should have traded him as well. The core as it stands is not good enough...and it isn't good enough because our fearless GM didn't do enough in any of the off seasons since the ream arrived in the peg to make it so.

This team could have be a playoff team if our bottom six was stronger and our left defense was stroger and we had a better goalie...but instead Chevy doubled down on the weak areas of the team instead of upgrading them.

And now here we are, near the bottom of the league, burning another year of our core and another year of our cost controlled assets...and we are contimplating re upping guys to long term deals when we are currently in the bottom five? I think it's more then obvious that the core, as is, just isn't good enough. Why is Chevy still pretending that it is?

Agreed. It makes no sense not to move Ladd and any dead weight you can. IMO there is only 3 players from the old core that are worth keeping long term (Buff, Wheeler, Little). Keep Toby for now, but should be turned over at some point (yes I know he has a NMC). Stu, Thor and Pavs are pure anchors on future success.

 

[Espirit]

Would there be any teams rich enough to take on both Ladd and Pav for any playoff push?

Edit: or cup push.

 

[BigZ65]

Would there be any teams rich enough to take on both Ladd and Pav for any playoff push?

Edit: or cup push.

Pretty much every team making a cup push would have better goaltending than Pavelec would provide.

 

[gbill2004*]

Question for you guys: would you accept less in a Ladd trade, if the other team also took Pavelec? Say a first rounder for Ladd, or a second rounder for Ladd and Pavelec?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Question for you guys: would you accept less in a Ladd trade, if the other team also took Pavelec? Say a first rounder for Ladd, or a second rounder for Ladd and Pavelec?

Only one year left on the Pavelec contract - I'd prefer a 1st for Ladd, personally. I can live with Pav in net (hopefully in a backup role) for one more year.

 

[larmex99]

Question for you guys: would you accept less in a Ladd trade, if the other team also took Pavelec? Say a first rounder for Ladd, or a second rounder for Ladd and Pavelec?

Sure, some of us would but Chevy likely wouldn't. One more year before Chevy resigns him......

 

[KingBogo]

Only one year left on the Pavelec contract - I'd prefer a 1st for Ladd, personally. I can live with Pav in net (hopefully in a backup role) for one more year.

Agreed. Rather get a bigger piece for the future and carry around the dead weight for another season.

 

[BigZ65]

Question for you guys: would you accept less in a Ladd trade, if the other team also took Pavelec? Say a first rounder for Ladd, or a second rounder for Ladd and Pavelec?

None of the contending teams want to pay Pavelec next season. You wouldn't get a 7th rounder for Ladd AND Pavelec from them. The cap space is worth more.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Will the Jets get an early first or a late first for Ladd? Probably a late first and is that more of an 80% chance of playing in the NHL? So then they need a prospect as well? If the Cap is dropping 4 million there won't be that strong a market but maybe not as bad as a 2nd pick only.

Ladd, at the TD is a rental. The cap means diddly. He is for a contender trying to take the last step. Late 1st and good prospect. Better prospect and 2nd.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Question for you guys: would you accept less in a Ladd trade, if the other team also took Pavelec? Say a first rounder for Ladd, or a second rounder for Ladd and Pavelec?

I'd keep Pav over that. I'd buy out Pav in the off-season.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Ladd, at the TD is a rental. The cap means diddly. He is for a contender trying to take the last step. Late 1st and good prospect. Better prospect and 2nd.

I was just thinking about this. You're right that as a pure rental, future cap changes (up or down) don't matter at all. The only way I could see a falling cap matter is that if the market suddenly becomes more flooded with rentals this season as teams are forced or more inclined to start shedding some expensive vets.

The other way I could see it having an impact on Ladd's return is if there are teams interested in Ladd as both a rental and a future signing. But the falling cap now looks to prevent that future signing. This won't change Ladd's value as a rental, but it does remove the "added bonus" of potentially signing Ladd for future seasons. Of course I know that signing is not guaranteed anyway. But I'd say the team which picks up Ladd for a cup run probably has a slight leg up over other teams.

 

[KingBogo]

I was just thinking about this. You're right that as a pure rental, future cap changes (up or down) don't matter at all. The only way I could see a falling cap matter is that if the market suddenly becomes more flooded with rentals this season as teams are forced or more inclined to start shedding some expensive vets.

The other way I could see it having an impact on Ladd's return is if there are teams interested in Ladd as both a rental and a future signing. But the falling cap now looks to prevent that future signing. This won't change Ladd's value as a rental, but it does remove the "added bonus" of potentially signing Ladd for future seasons. Of course I know that signing is not guaranteed anyway. But I'd say the team which picks up Ladd for a cup run probably has a slight leg up over other teams.

With the falling cap I don't think there will be many teams looking at him as more than a rental. At this point Ladd is looking for too much term and salary to plan that you will sign him. It will be interesting what the summer brings but the Jets might be positioned well to re-sign him come UFA time. And at a lesser amount than what he would have cost last summer.