Salary Cap: jets expect to hit 4.6m in bonuses - theyre a cap team

[Aavco Cup]

What I meant was that PP goals are not a separate bonus category, and you can have Laine on the 1st PP unit all season and have him leading the league in PP goals while his goals total stays well below what it would be if he was paired with Scheif all season.

You have no way of knowing how many goals Laine's would have scored in that scenario. It's also unlikely it would have lasted since Laine is not a complete enough player to take those minutes yet, especially on the road. He struggled every time he played with Scheifele this season. Even in preseason.

BTW he's just outside the top ten. If the Jets were so concerned about avoiding the bonus why are they giving him so many PP minutes. The whole conspiracy theory meme is tiring

 

[Farmboy Patty]

You have no way of knowing how many goals Laine's would have scored in that scenario. It's also unlikely it would have lasted since Laine is not a complete enough player to take those minutes yet, especially on the road. He struggled every time he played with Scheifele this season. Even in preseason.

BTW he's just outside the top ten. If the Hets were so concerned about avoiding the bonus why are they giving him so many PP minutes. The whole conspiracy theory mme is tiring

I don't know what this conspiracy is that you are talking about. I just don't think that the management are clueless about how much young talent they have in their lineup and that every dollar counts when you get close to the cap. I bet that this season they prefer to have Laine somewhere between top 15-11 than 10-5 in goals and still have a superweapon on the PP. The team is still scoring like crazy so why wouldn't they? If he manages to make the top 10 anyway, it's a pleasant problem to have.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I don't know what this conspiracy is that you are talking about. I just don't think that the management are clueless about how much young talent they have in their lineup and that every dollar counts when you get close to the cap. I bet that this season they prefer to have Laine somewhere between top 15-11 than 10-5 in goals and still have a superweapon on the PP. The team is still scoring like crazy so why wouldn't they? If he manages to make the top 10 anyway, it's a pleasant problem to have.

You are overthinking this. It's ridiculous.

Again if the org is so concerned about paying his $1.8M bonus why is he getting so much PP time? You are suggesting they are extremely incompetent because they are doing a horrible job avoiding it that way.

Much more realistic take is Chevy has not sent "orders" to Maurice. Our head coach is putting together a lineup each night that in his opinion gives the Jets the best chance of winning games. Bonus money is never a consideration in any way from Maurice's perspective. All that matters is wins

 

[Farmboy Patty]

You are overthinking this. It's ridiculous.

Again if the org is so concerned about paying his $1.8M bonus why is he getting so much PP time? You are suggesting they are extremely incompetent because they are doing a horrible job avoiding it that way.

Much more realistic take is Chevy has not sent "orders" to Maurice. Our head coach is putting together a lineup each night that in his opinion gives the Jets the best chance of winning games. Bonus money is never a consideration in any way from Maurice's perspective. All that matters is wins

I'm trying to keep an open mind here. There was over 40+ games of data that showed that ELL is an offensive black hole where the sum is far lesser then it's parts. I don't know all the details of Laines contract and what performances lock up different bonuses, but I do know Laine is pretty much the only top winger that hasn't got to play with Chef this season (those 2 periods where Wheeler played his worst game of the season and Chef was fresh back from injury don't count).

Btw, the management isn't sandbagging Laine or anything. If he is top 15 in scoring and the PP is rocking, that's great! If he still makes it to top 10 in scoring, hats off to Laine. They would probably still prefer to not pay out those bonuses since they will have to turn every dime at some point to lay this puzzle of talent. Why would you call that incompetence?

 

[Aavco Cup]

I'm trying to keep an open mind here. There was over 40+ games of data that showed that ELL is an offensive black hole where the sum is far lesser then it's parts. I don't know all the details of Laines contract and what performances lock up different bonuses, but I do know Laine is pretty much the only top winger that hasn't got to play with Chef this season (those 2 periods where Wheeler played his worst game of the season and Chef was fresh back from injury don't count).

Btw, the management isn't sandbagging Laine or anything. If he is top 15 in scoring and the PP is rocking, that's great! If he still makes it to top 10 in scoring, hats off to Laine. They would probably still prefer to not pay out those bonuses since they will have to turn every dime at some point to lay this puzzle of talent. Why would you call that incompetence?

I think they will be very happy to pay that bonus if it happens.

If they don't want to pay the bonus as some sort of strategy (which I don't agree with) then reduce his PP time. Move him onto PP2. Less minutes means less goals. Hell even let him sit in the PB for a game or two. It would be incompetent not to do that if this was some sort of team agenda. They aren't that stupid.

IMO the bonus is not driving any decisions. Winning games is

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I think they will be very happy to pay that bonus if it happens.

If they don't want to pay the bonus as some sort of strategy (which I don't agree with) then reduce his PP time. Move him onto PP2. Less minutes means less goals. Hell even let him sit in the PB for a game or two. It would be incompetent not to do that if this was some sort of team agenda. They aren't that stupid.

IMO the bonus is not driving any decisions. Winning games is

I am convinced that they are looking at the bigger picture and IF they can have a superior PP with Laine while keeping the costs down they'll do it.

It would be a different situation if this team was depending on Laine's even strength scoring, but the Jets are loaded and scoring on two or three lines regularly, so they can manage without it and still outscore the opponent on most nights. The PP would not work nearly as well without Laine on it though, and that would probably effect the outcome of games to an extent that we would sit lower in the standings.

 

[Ducky10]

I am convinced that they are looking at the bigger picture and IF they can have a superior PP with Laine while keeping the costs down they'll do it.

It would be a different situation if this team was depending on Laine's even strength scoring, but the Jets are loaded and scoring on two or three lines regularly, so they can manage without it and still outscore the opponent on most nights. The PP would not work nearly as well without Laine on it though, and that would probably effect the outcome of games to an extent that we would sit lower in the standings.

All of what you have written can be their plan without part of it being them trying to suppress Laine. If things weren't working so well they would change it, they don't need to. The way they are using Laine can be for reasons other than trying to save costs. I seriously doubt it is even remotely by design, in fact I don't believe it all.

 

[Halberdier]

He struggled every time he played with Scheifele this season.

Correction: they never played together but only 2 periods. During those 2 periods (and more) it was Mark Scheifele who struggled, as he was more than a bit off after having a long injury. Laine played pretty well, Wheeler not that well in that single game.

Apart those two periods and some odd quarter of shifts here and there (including shift Scheifele made his first goal and point for the season) they have NOT played together on 5-on-5.

Even in preseason.

Yeah, that was very lovable struggle, esp. against the Flames: 2+3=5 in one game for Laine playing with Scheifele.

Maybe there are several more games they have playing together this season I'm just missing. Please tell me more about it.

I'm not into conspiracy theories at all, but it's clear that Laine would have bunch of more goals with Scheifele. And also would play better with 1-2 more TOI and more even TOI.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

All of what you have written can be their plan without part of it being them trying to suppress Laine. If things weren't working so well they would change it, they don't need to. The way they are using Laine can be for reasons other than trying to save costs. I seriously doubt it is even remotely by design, in fact I don't believe it all.

You might very well be correct but there is no way to know. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it though, if that was the case. Management does juggling all the time because of cost and contract management, so why does this idea upset people (not saying that you are)?

Btw, does anyone know where to find the contract details for players? I'm wondering what other performances unlock individual bonuses, like finishing top 5 in Rocket Richard voting, being top 6 in team TOI etc. Is this info available to the public?

 

[Ducky10]

You might very well be correct but there is no way to know. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it though, if that was the case. Management does juggling all the time because of cost and contract management, so why does this idea upset people (not saying that you are)?

Btw, does anyone know where to find the contract details for players? I'm wondering what other performances unlock individual bonuses, like finishing top 5 in Rocket Richard voting, being top 6 in team TOI etc. Is this info available to the public?

I just don't think that's how this organization operates. I think it risks creating an environment of mistrust and resentment with the players. This kind of thing would be pretty obvious to them.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Correction: they never played together but only 2 periods. During those 2 periods (and more) it was Mark Scheifele who struggled, as he was more than a bit off after having a long injury. Laine played pretty well, Wheeler not that well in that single game.

Apart those two periods and some odd quarter of shifts here and there (including shift Scheifele made his first goal and point for the season) they have NOT played together on 5-on-5.



Yeah, that was very lovable struggle, esp. against the Flames: 2+3=5 in one game for Laine playing with Scheifele.

Maybe there are several more games they have playing together this season I'm just missing. Please tell me more about it.

I'm not into conspiracy theories at all, but it's clear that Laine would have bunch of more goals with Scheifele. And also would play better with 1-2 more TOI and more even TOI.

They struggled in their own zone. They struggled to maintain zone time. We hardly scored at all in preseason 5 on 5 IIRC so I seriously doubt your numbers for Laine with that line. The PP is a separate thing as Laine has played with the #1 unit all year.

 

[Aavco Cup]

The whole saving Laine's bonus is a complete fantasy that defies logic. In the end I give him a good chance of achieving it regardless.

 

[sting13]

I could see Matthias getting traded in part of a playoff piece or placed on waivers towards the deadline if his injury isn't too bad.

Can't see anyone taking a 30 year old guy who hasn't scored more than 8 goals in four seasons. He is not a piece to help a team win a cup and teams not challenging want young guys or draft picks. I could see his NHL career coming to an end soon.

 

[Maukkis]

I just don't think that's how this organization operates. I think it risks creating an environment of mistrust and resentment with the players. This kind of thing would be pretty obvious to them.

This. Two years ago, Chicago had Panarin on the verge of hitting his maximum bonuses, which were seen as very harmful for the Hawks' cap structure; an additional ~2M cap penalty would have crippled them, and people were seriously speculating whether Panarin would have been scratched for the final game of the season.

Out comes Quenneville, publicly stating that he will do whatever it takes to get Panarin his money. Panarin ended up playing, scoring a point or two, staying in the top 10 in scoring and earning his bonuses.

If you want to send a message to players who contemplate whether Chicago treats their players well or not, that is one good way to prove that it is the former.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I'm trying to keep an open mind here. There was over 40+ games of data that showed that ELL is an offensive black hole where the sum is far lesser then it's parts. I don't know all the details of Laines contract and what performances lock up different bonuses, but I do know Laine is pretty much the only top winger that hasn't got to play with Chef this season (those 2 periods where Wheeler played his worst game of the season and Chef was fresh back from injury don't count).

Btw, the management isn't sandbagging Laine or anything. If he is top 15 in scoring and the PP is rocking, that's great! If he still makes it to top 10 in scoring, hats off to Laine. They would probably still prefer to not pay out those bonuses since they will have to turn every dime at some point to lay this puzzle of talent. Why would you call that incompetence?

It's a lot more than 40+ games of data. ELL began last year. People applauded it then. Go back thru these boards.

All I care about is wins. ELL's stats are far from great, but you can't argue the win/loss record going back to February of 2017.

If ELL sucks & the top line featuring Wheeler are the defensive black hole some suggest, how the hell is this team winning games? Is it Copp-Lowry-Tanev? Was it Perreault-Hendrick-Armia? Is success solely due to Hellebuyck?

Cue nominations for the Vezina & the Hart. Let's hope there's no bonus' Bucky gets for this!

 

[Farmboy Patty]

It's a lot more than 40+ games of data. ELL began last year. People applauded it then. Go back thru these boards.

All I care about is wins. ELL's stats are far from great, but you can't argue the win/loss record going back to February of 2017.

If ELL sucks & the top line featuring Wheeler are the defensive black hole some suggest, how the hell is this team winning games? Is it Copp-Lowry-Tanev? Was it Perreault-Hendrick-Armia? Is success solely due to Hellebuyck?

Cue nominations for the Vezina & the Hart. Let's hope there's no bonus' Bucky gets for this!

I suggest you go back through these boards and see for yourself that lots of people have been wondering why PoMo stuck for so long with ELL, which never really worked as well as other options did. And when have I ever argued the W/L record? Do you have a real point with this or are you just trying to be funny? It's hard to tell. The team is winning because of pretty good coaching, solid goaltending, 6 nhl defensemen and enough firepower to have 3 scoring lines. That wasn't the topic of my post that you replied to, though.

 

[surixon]

I just don't think that's how this organization operates. I think it risks creating an environment of mistrust and resentment with the players. This kind of thing would be pretty obvious to them.

This organization from day one has been constructed on the principles of treating the players and their family with respect and going above and beyond with regards to how they treat them. The Jets trying to cheat Laine out of his bonuses fly in the face of the organizations identity. Its not something that they would do period, as the hit to their reputation would be far more damaging then paying $1.8 million and having to deal with the cap.

 

[surixon]

ELL actually played pretty well at the beginning of the year and generated numerous chances. They however weren't great at finishing on them.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Please don't hijack this thread with the "sandbagging theory". It's already spread to two other threads. If you feel the need to discuss it, take it to the roster thread.

Thanks.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

So - does anyone know if the players' contract details are public information, and where one might find them?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

So - does anyone know if the players' contract details are public information, and where one might find them?

CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Can't see anyone taking a 30 year old guy who hasn't scored more than 8 goals in four seasons. He is not a piece to help a team win a cup and teams not challenging want young guys or draft picks. I could see his NHL career coming to an end soon.

A team that's tanking might take him knowing he won't put up points for them and has room for his salary.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thanks I already knew that site but couldn't find detailed contract details. Maybe they aren't disclosed?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Thanks I already knew that site but couldn't find detailed contract details. Maybe they aren't disclosed?

Some teams used to be reluctant to even disclose the AAV and length of contracts. capfriendly is about as good as it gets.

What sort of additional detail were you thinking of?

 

[KingBogo]

Please don't hijack this thread with the "sandbagging theory". It's already spread to two other threads. If you feel the need to discuss it, take it to the roster thread.

Thanks.

I'm glad I didn't post in this thread before reading to to this point. Its like was have a little bit of main boards here in are little corner of the HF world.

But in terms of performance bonuses the Jets have calculated them in from day 1 and this is a non issue. They have $69.4 M of salary leaving a $5+ cushion for bonuses. Since Poolman and Comrie are unlikely to hit theirs $4.6 M sounds about right for expected bonus payouts. Still leaves a little wiggle room at the TD for about $3M in full salary. Maybe they go over a bit for the right player and deal with it next season. The big squeeze comes in 2019 anyways and they will have less potential bonuses the year prior to deal with.