Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part II

[RegDunlop]

I posted a link earlier in this thread to an interview from summer before last with him being asked if he practiced his english over the summer and his reply was "no". It seemed bizarre at the time and even more bizarre looking at it now seeing how his english has barely progressed. I had to learn a second language at 30 yo and to make good progress you should be studying a couple hours a day to get a good foundation. It's ridiculous with the amount media these guys do that he can still just barely piece a couple of sentences together.

That said I think he can be a 2nd liner and they should be patient with him. Some time in the AHL will help.

Thanks. I should've read the whole thread and your link first!

It explains a lot of things if that's the case. If the org is as frustrated with him as shown in thier usage, im not sure im against it.

 

[GameChanger]

Thanks. I should've read the whole thread and your link first!

It explains a lot of things if that's the case. If the org is as frustrated with him as shown in thier usage, im not sure im against it.

That's a misunderstanding. Jesse answered to the question if he spoke English all the summer. Trust me, he had some intensive lessons and his English is actually at least somewhat better than people seem to think from the interview. Of course he should study it more, but to think Pulju's completely ignorant about that is false. I get ***t for defending Pulju, but I guess I have a right to say things like this.

So after a good game Pulju had one full game in the top6 against Nashville and one in which the lines where shuffeled through the whole game and where he played basically 4th line minutes, right? Look at the atmospehere here now.

I'm not against any opinion, but there's a lot of mass effect going on and I find some comments aggressive for a 20-year-old player who's actually had his moments earlier in the top6, but had a couple of quiet games after a good game. So I'll try to stay away more now, but came to correct the info about the lessons as I have inside info there.

 

[RegDunlop]

That's a misunderstanding. Jesse answered to the question if he spoke English all the summer. Trust me, he had some intensive lessons and his English is actually at least somewhat better than people seem to think from the interview. Of course he should study it more, but to think Pulju's completely ignorant about that is false. I get ***t for defending Pulju, but I guess I have a right to say things like this.

So after a good game Pulju had one full game in the top6 against Nashville and one in which the lines where shuffeled through the whole game and where he played basically 4th line minutes. Look at the atmospehere here now. I'm not against any opinion, but there's a lot of mass effect going on and I find some comments aggressive for a 20-year-old player who's actually had his moments earlier in the top6, but had a couple of quiet games after a good game. So I'll try to stay away more now, but came to correct the info about the lessons as I have inside info there.

Appreciate it!

I'm not one to jump off cliffs so soon either but I'm not as convinced of him as I was, put it that way.

I also have no idea - and neither do most others here - about what goes on internally. So i wont wade into the usage of him issue.

I'm merely saying that it seems to me, from what I know, which granted is minimal, that he is not doing everything he can to make goid of his opportunity. And that's a shame.

 

[GameChanger]

Appreciate it!

I'm not one to jump off cliffs so soon either but I'm not as convinced of him as I was, put it that way.

I also have no idea - and neither do most others here - about what goes on internally. So i wont wade into the usage of him issue.

I'm merely saying that it seems to me, from what I know, which granted is minimal, that he is not doing everything he can to make goid of his opportunity. And that's a shame.

I don't want anyone to feel I'm highjacking this thread, so I'll reply this once to your msg. I have no problem with any opinions and understand why some people question him, it's more than natural. Maybe a bit surprising at this extent, as it was just brought up what his stats have been earlier in the top6.

Whether Pulju will be a bust or not the thing that affects many people is the mass effect I mentioned. This is not to undermine anyone's intelligence, as that's a phenomenon that affects all of us to at least some extent. Because of the passion and the way the organization has failed them there's understandable reasons for the Oilers' fans to direct their anger against something, but I feel it's a shame Pulju got only one game at a solid spot in the top6 before this all.

I know Puljujarvi takes this rather too seriously, so I believe the problems are mainly mental. I don't think it's coincidence last year he had maybe his best games in the very first game and the first game after the break with playing outside with the kids, and gets quieter or even struggles when there's more pressure (after a mistake, a long-waited spot in the top6, no points coming etc.).

In the national team he had a terrific period when he finally got ice-time in the 3rd one, and after that he played a very good game against the Czech Republic. He would've deserved points in those ones, but as they didn't come his game started to decline. That's how I see it.

Now I'm gone so the bashing can continue here

 

[RegDunlop]

I don't want anyone to feel I'm highjacking this thread, so I'll reply this once to your msg. I have no problem with any opinions and understand why some people question him, it's more than natural. Maybe a bit surprising at this extent, as it was just brought up what his stats have been earlier in the top6.

Whether Pulju will be a bust or not the thing that affects many people is the mass effect I mentioned. This is not to undermine anyone's intelligence, as that's a phenomenon that affects all of us to at least some extent. Because of the passion and the way the organization has failed them there's understandable reasons for the Oilers' fans to direct their anger against something, but I feel it's a shame Pulju got only one game at a solid spot in the top6 before this all.

I know Puljujarvi takes this rather too seriously, so I believe the problems are mainly mental. I don't think it's coincidence last year he had maybe his best games in the very first game and the first game after the break with playing outside with the kids, and gets quieter or even struggles when there's more pressure (after a mistake, a long-waited spot in the top6, no points coming etc.).

In the national team he had a terrific period when he finally got ice-time in the 3rd one, and after that he played a very good game against the Czech Republic. He would've deserved points in those ones, but as they didn't come his game started to decline. That's how I see it.

Now I'm gone so the bashing can continue here

No bashing from me. Thanks for the insight and perspective.

I want Jessie to succeed very much. And there is so much seemingly wrong with this org it's unreal. But like in the Drai debate in another thread, I do hold my opinion that he needs to push the envelope for himself too as I feel he has lots more to give.

I let you hibernate!
Thanks again.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Now I'm gone so the bashing can continue here

We need Jesse to have a good game and soon for us. The problem is that we aren't playing any cream puff teams so both Jesse and Leon will have to dig their feet in and work hard to get results over this stretch. IMO they are both capable, they just need to do what it takes and make it happen.

 

[CycloneSweep]

There is no patience with some of the fanbase to let a player work through his growing pains.

Seeing glimpses of what Puljujarvi can be, I'm certain trading him away for the defensive flavour of the week or whatever would be a very big mistake.

At the same time you have another portion of the fan base that wants to give him all the gravy time possible and rush him into steady top 6 minutes.

 

[CycloneSweep]

We need Jesse to have a good game and soon for us. The problem is that we aren't playing any cream puff teams so both Jesse and Leon will have to dig their feet in and work hard to get results over this stretch. IMO they are both capable, they just need to do what it takes and make it happen.

I think the most frustrating thing about Pulju is his good play is random. He can be very good but it almost doesn't seem to matter who we are playing or who he is playing with. He just randomly decides to have a good game

 

[GodPucker]

For me it is simple. Yes better linemates help, but that's if you are almost already a good player.

It's simple logic. If you are thrown on the third line and you are trending up to be a pretty good player, you should show something in a game. Anything. An impress rush or two here and there. Being creative. Making smart plays.

If you are a good player right now you force your coach to move you up. Actions speak loudly.

If PP was any good right now, he wouldn't be on the 3rd line a lot, no matter how much "chemistry" he has with Strome.

 

[North]

At the same time you have another portion of the fan base that wants to give him all the gravy time possible and rush him into steady top 6 minutes.

I think, for me personally, he needs more than 2.5 games to assess whether he belongs in the top six or not.

If he continues to struggle for a few more games then by all means place him in the bottom six or the AHL.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I think the most frustrating thing about Pulju is his good play is random. He can be very good but it almost doesn't seem to matter who we are playing or who he is playing with. He just randomly decides to have a good game

I've mentioned in the past that he seems to come to play against Winnipeg and Carolina. Clearly he's rising his game to show his fellow WJC linemates and countrymen that he can play. Great players have an internal drive where they give it their all every game, Jesse needs to get there.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

At the same time you have another portion of the fan base that wants to give him all the gravy time possible and rush him into steady top 6 minutes.

This is year 3 for him and his competition is a career AHL/NHL tweener and a rookie. I'm not expecting him to be an 8 point player this year, but it sure would be nice if he could at least flirt with 20 goals and 40 points playing in a 2nd line role.

 

[93LEAFS]

Why is this here. He graduated by the standards of this board 34% ago.

Oilers have a history of playing kids in situations before they are ready, at the expense of their long-term development because they need immediate help. This situation is no different. But, this kid also needs to take initiative with his career, if you expected to be an NHLer at 14 (which is the case with Puljujarvi), then start learning the language you are going to be coached immediately and focus on it. I don't think not knowing where to be is due to a language barrier though. Tons of native English-speaking players have this issue and they can understand the coaches, and some players who can't speak a lick of english get it right away (look at the Russians who came over after the fall of the USSR). Knowing where to be in the offensive zone is pretty instinctive and part of hockey IQ. He has good defensive positioning and pretty good vision, but isn't great at finding space as the none-puck carrier.

 

[nabob]

I think the most frustrating thing about Pulju is his good play is random. He can be very good but it almost doesn't seem to matter who we are playing or who he is playing with. He just randomly decides to have a good game

He’s good when he can get a pass that isn’t in his feet while moving. Unfortunately that rarely happens with our breakout. Our entire strategy is based on the ability to dump and chase and win puck battles. That strategy became extinct when goalies got good at handling the puck. Half of all dump ins are essentially giving the puck to the other team and the opposite of paying a puck possession game.

Hopefully next game can be one of his random good ones.

 

[nabob]

I've mentioned in the past that he seems to come to play against Winnipeg and Carolina. Clearly he's rising his game to show his fellow WJC linemates and countrymen that he can play. Great players have an internal drive where they give it their all every game, Jesse needs to get there.

Seems to be that he comes out of his shell on the ice in those games. He pushes the play to try and use his skills to their max. Most other games he looks like he’s trying to remember the system and concentrating on not screwing up.

 

[Aerrol]

I'm still undecided about him.

One thing that I don't understand is the s**t the org has taken over him. I hate the bulls**t this team has done as much as anyone but not in this case.

Development? English? How about some responsibility on his part? Consider this; while I realize every family situation is different, if my son gets signed then is teetering on joining a team for a lot of money in the best league in the world, you better believe my wife and I'd be there every step of the way whenever possible to assist him and knock down any barriers (language?) that arise. Failing that I would ensure he had some kind of support system in place.

It's past the time for the org to be accountable for him. Not giving up on him, but he needs to figure it out on his own who he is as a player and where he wants to be.

Past time? When has this org been held accountable for him? For its God awful handling of ANY of its prospects? Sure the damage might be done and it's too late (yet again), but it's insanity to me to keep blaming the top ranked prospects we f*** over every single f***ing year. This organization's drafting and development is a travesty. Either they can't scout worth a damn or they can't develop. I'm inclined to think it's both.

 

[BlackDogg]

They insisted on keeping him in the lineup in his initial year for reasons I can’t understand... and now his contract is up after this year...

Should be good for a $6million dollar Chia special though.

 

[RegDunlop]

Past time? When has this org been held accountable for him? For its God awful handling of ANY of its prospects? Sure the damage might be done and it's too late (yet again), but it's insanity to me to keep blaming the top ranked prospects we **** over every single ****ing year. This organization's drafting and development is a travesty. Either they can't scout worth a damn or they can't develop. I'm inclined to think it's both.

I'll say first that I think as well this org is as lost in the woods as possible with culturing talent. But it's not all on them.

What prospect exactly did we **** over? To me i think they tree Shultz into the fire too soon. But who else?

 

[Aerrol]

I'll say first that I think as well this org is as lost in the woods as possible with culturing talent. But it's not all on them.

What prospect exactly did we **** over? To me i think they tree Shultz into the fire too soon. But who else?

Yakupov Schultz Puljujarvi Gagner Paajarvi off the top of my head. Use of Smid was questionable, RNH thrown into the deep end and told to grind it out like Horcoff, any promising pick below the first round: everyone from Slepyshev to Chase to Yakimov to Marincin to Rajala and Mark Olivier Roy. Any good organization turns the occasional later round pick into a good player. We have Petry for over a f***ing decade. It's hilariously bad.

 

[RegDunlop]

Yakupov Schultz Puljujarvi Gagner Paajarvi off the top of my head. Use of Smid was questionable, RNH thrown into the deep end and told to grind it out like Horcoff, any promising pick below the first round: everyone from Slepyshev to Chase to Yakimov to Marincin to Rajala and Mark Olivier Roy. Any good organization turns the occasional later round pick into a good player. We have Petry for over a ****ing decade. It's hilariously bad.

Sorry still don't see it. That list is not exactly a who's who in the top neighborhood. But you are implying that they could have been if the org didn't screw them around? Hmm let's see;

Shultz - I conceeded to you
Pulji - verdict still out
Gagner - ????? Was talented enough to be a fixture on the team at the time. And he was. His abilities or lack of, simply couldn't keep up with the pace of the game over his career. I think the org did well with him.
MPS - exposed for the minimal talent he possessed. But Again, afforded the opportunity to shine. And not really gifted a spot as solidly as the rest of H.O.P.E.
Sleep - spent significant development time. Was a tweener that wanted more ice time so went home. It happens.
Yakimov - I had time for him. Felt he could be developed more but again spent seasoning time, not thrown to the wolves.
Chase, Marincin, Raj are a dime a dozen IMO. Any other org would have cut ties the same or sooner me thinks.
MORoy - can't comment as I have no idea what even happened to him.

So that leaves Yak and Nuge.
Are you honestly saying the org f**ked up Yaks development? Maybe a certain coach held him back some but the proof was always in the pudding there and I think we as fans were in denial for a long time before accepting it
Nuge - seriously??? Did you see him his rookie year and / or look at his stats? Not development issues there I doubt. Other ones maybe.

Anyway that's my take. I hate this org so much sometimes for seemingly being so clueless about so many things. And years ago having no farm team or structure in place for development is part of that. But they have had that now for a few years so i can't buy the argument. Now weather the right people are in position to provide that development is another story.

Long response sorry!
Off to bed so I'll read your reply in am if you choose to do so.

Thanks!

 

[Aerrol]

Sorry still don't see it. That list is not exactly a who's who in the top neighborhood. But you are implying that they could have been if the org didn't screw them around? Hmm let's see;

Shultz - I conceeded to you
Pulji - verdict still out
Gagner - ????? Was talented enough to be a fixture on the team at the time. And he was. His abilities or lack of, simply couldn't keep up with the pace of the game over his career. I think the org did well with him.
MPS - exposed for the minimal talent he possessed. But Again, afforded the opportunity to shine. And not really gifted a spot as solidly as the rest of H.O.P.E.
Sleep - spent significant development time. Was a tweener that wanted more ice time so went home. It happens.
Yakimov - I had time for him. Felt he could be developed more but again spent seasoning time, not thrown to the wolves.
Chase, Marincin, Raj are a dime a dozen IMO. Any other org would have cut ties the same or sooner me thinks.
MORoy - can't comment as I have no idea what even happened to him.

So that leaves Yak and Nuge.
Are you honestly saying the org f**ked up Yaks development? Maybe a certain coach held him back some but the proof was always in the pudding there and I think we as fans were in denial for a long time before accepting it
Nuge - seriously??? Did you see him his rookie year and / or look at his stats? Not development issues there I doubt. Other ones maybe.

Anyway that's my take. I hate this org so much sometimes for seemingly being so clueless about so many things. And years ago having no farm team or structure in place for development is part of that. But they have had that now for a few years so i can't buy the argument. Now weather the right people are in position to provide that development is another story.

Long response sorry!
Off to bed so I'll read your reply in am if you choose to do so.

Thanks!

Making the NHL isn't a sign of good handling or development. It's just the Oilers actually lucking into making a first round pick that was good enough to play. We absolutely did not develop RNH or Gagner for example. Yakupov was a weak first overall but he was a f***ing consensus first overall and a ton of the exact same issues we're seeing here with our current star euro prospect with bad English. I don't buy that it's a coincidence that they seem consistently lost and unable to learn an NHL system, sorry.

You want to see real development? Look at players like Kucherov, Perry, Benn, Keith. (edit: to add some more names - Pastrnak, Rantanen, Voracek, Trocheck, Gourde) Players who actually take huge steps forward after being drafted by an organization that actually DEVELOPS their talents, not just throws em to the wolves and tells em to work on their f***ing board work. The Oilers have drafted four first overalls in less than a decade, including a can't miss generational talent and managed to still somehow not put together a full f***ing first line out of it. Nevermind the additional top ten picks to go along with it. How anyone could look at that and say the Oilers are anything but horrendously inept at developing is beyond me.

Edit: long reply in turn, but have a good night as well. Cheers!

 

[DaJackal]

Pulju seems to be confused. Given the current line blender that McLellan is running it's not a wonder. But I thought I'd chime in.

IMO there is not a single thing that needs to be fixed which would convert him into a star. This is a combination of multiple issues - some of which Pulju himself is responsible. He is a player who is either hot or cold (at least at this point) and it critically depends on his confidence. He loves the game and plays it from the heart, and he is absolutely at his best when he doesn't have to think about it. Here are some things which would probably help him a lot:

*Get consistent linemates (doesn't matter that much which line, as long as it's consistent) and be given clear orders what they want his role to be. He doesn't have a supercomputer in his head like Sebastian Aho, but that doesn't mean that his hockey IQ is low; tell him what you want him to do and let him figure out the details himself.
*He would immensely benefit from having meetings with a sports psychologist. But this is something I don't believe the organization can do. Yes, they can send him to one, but this kind of therapy has very little chance of success unless the player himself wants it and believes in it. Laine was forced to do it (after that one incident when he was sent home from a tournament), but luckily he understood quickly that it helps him to be mentally stronger and bought the idea.
*The language thing. I bet Pulju has worked on it, but he needs to do it more. This is the biggest thing (in comparison to how cheap and easy it would have been) I think the Oilers organization failed in: they should have hired him an English teacher on Draft day.
*How's the Oilers power play working currently? I'd use Pulju as a left point shooter on PP2. Letestu is gone, right?

Giving up on Pulju now would be a mistake. His value is so low that you'd probably get a 3rd round pick. Better to hold on to him and see how he develops. Anyone remember how Kasperi Kapanen did prior this season? Pulju is a 20yo who should have been kept playing huge minutes in the AHL or FEL on his D+1 season instead of using him as a bench warmer. It's not a wonder he hasn't done much (apart from killing @Spawn's cat, obviously).

 

[tellermine]

Kasperi Kapanen prior ths season.
Ppg AHL, and great grit and effort in NHL even in small role.

Huge diffrence to Pulju...

 

[elmaco]

Kasperi Kapanen prior ths season.
Ppg AHL, and great grit and effort in NHL even in small role.

Huge diffrence to Pulju...

He's two years older and just now begins to show NHL quality for the first time.

 

[Throttlehead]

Pulju seems to be confused. Given the current line blender that McLellan is running it's not a wonder. But I thought I'd chime in.

IMO there is not a single thing that needs to be fixed which would convert him into a star. This is a combination of multiple issues - some of which Pulju himself is responsible. He is a player who is either hot or cold (at least at this point) and it critically depends on his confidence. He loves the game and plays it from the heart, and he is absolutely at his best when he doesn't have to think about it. Here are some things which would probably help him a lot:

*Get consistent linemates (doesn't matter that much which line, as long as it's consistent) and be given clear orders what they want his role to be. He doesn't have a supercomputer in his head like Sebastian Aho, but that doesn't mean that his hockey IQ is low; tell him what you want him to do and let him figure out the details himself.
*He would immensely benefit from having meetings with a sports psychologist. But this is something I don't believe the organization can do. Yes, they can send him to one, but this kind of therapy has very little chance of success unless the player himself wants it and believes in it. Laine was forced to do it (after that one incident when he was sent home from a tournament), but luckily he understood quickly that it helps him to be mentally stronger and bought the idea.
*The language thing. I bet Pulju has worked on it, but he needs to do it more. This is the biggest thing (in comparison to how cheap and easy it would have been) I think the Oilers organization failed in: they should have hired him an English teacher on Draft day.
*How's the Oilers power play working currently? I'd use Pulju as a left point shooter on PP2. Letestu is gone, right?

Giving up on Pulju now would be a mistake. His value is so low that you'd probably get a 3rd round pick. Better to hold on to him and see how he develops. Anyone remember how Kasperi Kapanen did prior this season? Pulju is a 20yo who should have been kept playing huge minutes in the AHL or FEL on his D+1 season instead of using him as a bench warmer. It's not a wonder he hasn't done much (apart from killing @Spawn's cat, obviously).

I think english is still a problem with him, and yes he should be further along with it.

More importantly I think the constant line juggling kills confidence, and he is being over coached. Just let get out there and play his game, I totally disagree with people who say he cant think the game, he was always a playmaker first before the NHL.