Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part II

[space321]

What I don't get is this, Puljujarvi played a great game in Winnipeg, then the next game has his ice time REDUCED. Then the game after that he's on the 4th line. What in the f***ing world kind of message does that send? Other players get promoted and rewarded for playing well, and Jesse gets bumped down after playing well. Why? It's not like Jesse's the reason we lost to nashville or even tonight, yet he keeps getting demoted for no f***ing reason. Meanwhile guys like Strome gets PP, OT time and hasn't scored a single point all year. Mind boggling.

It's not even about if he is a bust or not, there's just a clear double standard on this team.

 

[Soundwave]

What I don't get is this, Puljujarvi played a great game in Winnipeg, then the next game has his ice time REDUCED. Then the game after that he's on the 4th line. What in the ****ing world kind of message does that send? Other players get promoted and rewarded for playing well, and Jesse gets bumped down after playing well. Why? It's not like Jesse's the reason we lost to nashville or even tonight, yet he keeps getting demoted for no ****ing reason. Meanwhile guys like Strome gets PP, OT time and hasn't scored a single point all year. Mind boggling.

It's not even about if he is a bust or not, there's just a clear double standard on this team.

I don't think he got demoted so much as Chiasson and Marody showed better than him tonight and got rewarded for that.

 

[TheNumber4]

What I don't get is this, Puljujarvi played a great game in Winnipeg, then the next game has his ice time REDUCED. Then the game after that he's on the 4th line. What in the ****ing world kind of message does that send? Other players get promoted and rewarded for playing well, and Jesse gets bumped down after playing well. Why? It's not like Jesse's the reason we lost to nashville or even tonight, yet he keeps getting demoted for no ****ing reason. Meanwhile guys like Strome gets PP, OT time and hasn't scored a single point all year. Mind boggling.

It's not even about if he is a bust or not, there's just a clear double standard on this team.

There are others on our team that have shown just as much as Jesse that get bumped to the press box. A guy like Strome rarely makes a mistake that costs us. He rarely contribute offensively either, but it's atleast even or better than Jesse in that regard. Anyways, we've seen Jesse in every role the organization has to give him. From developing in the AHL, to "driving his own line", to being a complement to either Drai or McDavid, to playing with his favourite center Strome..... at some point the kid just has to come through with SOMETHING.

 

[torniojaws]

He's a bust. Sad to say it, but he'll never become anything.

...in Edmonton.

Trade him to Carolina and watch him fly with his long-time buddy, Aho.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I don't like Todd or his handling of Jesse or his coaching overall but he has been given a few chances to get something going with Drai and so far he has not grabbed the bull by the horns. Chiasson on the flip side is a guy playing for his NHL career and grabbed the chance by the balls tonight. Jesse needs to stop thinking that he'll be a NHLer by default, he needs to bear down and make things happen out there. Battle harder, hit guys once in awhile, just continue to show the coaches and his teammates that he's willing to do what it takes. He might need 2-3 games out of the lineup to get that hunger like Khaira did last season.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Maybe it's not only McLellan why Puljujarvi is busting right at the moment.
Here's my odds of responsibility of Puljujarvi's busting.

50% Puljujarvi himself.
30% McLellan and bad coaching
20% Oilers management.

I agree on that Oilers should trade Pulju but also Oilers should consider AHL too.
If / when Oilers is out of playoffs before next March then fire McLellan and Chiarelli during the offseason.

 

[GameChanger]

I'm not against a trade as I don't think McLellan is the right coach for Pulju and I feel the fans have turned against him too fast after getting the top6 chance. I mean after the good game against the Jets 2/3 games were ones where the lines were shuffled constantly and between two of them his average TOI was just above 10 minutes. Again I emphasize I don't have anything against different opinions, but personally would like to see him in more than one complete game in a solid top6 line.

According to Edmonton Journal his first period wasn't too bad ("had a good 1st period without the puck") and he played a part in the goal, and they said it was a surprise he was demoted to the 4th line with Brodziak and Kassian almost immediately after it. Maybe he should've done more in the one period, but I suppose Pulju knows he may have only a few minutes on the ice and if he either fails to stand out or makes a mistake he may be demoted or benched.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

he was -2 in 9 minutes

yeah, he had a couple looks but far more dangerous in the defensive zone for all the wrong reasons

 

[talitintti]

Where Puljujärvi is right now isn't as worrying as the fact that he was in the exact same place two years ago.

Players not in NHL at 20 can become good NHL players, but how many players that show no development in their third year in NHL suddenly become stars?

 

[GameChanger]

he was -2 in 9 minutes

yeah, he had a couple looks but far more dangerous in the defensive zone for all the wrong reasons

There were times his +- was among the best of the team, even in his first season, so if you review his game based on that it has to go both ways. I haven't seen the game so I'm more interested to know if he had a role in the goals against. I don't know how to say this without it sounding like an excuse, but a place in the 4th line with new linemates, low minutes and the two worst players of the game (according to EJ anyway) doesn't help things right now, so I'm not surprised if he didn't do well there.

I personally think +- is a helpful stat in the longer run, but it's not totally accurate. In isolated games it's often useless. Outside the 1st line Strome's -2 is the best any forward has this season. Everybody else is between -3 and -6, Pulju being -4.

 

[GameChanger]

Where Puljujärvi is right now isn't as worrying as the fact that he was in the exact same place two years ago.

Actually about two years ago he was kind of in a better situation. I mean he had slowly earned his place in the team, his trend was upwards and he had four good games in the first line, producing at a ppg rate without any PP time in those.

It's a shame there's no turning back time to see what would've happened without the sudden demotion and the following benching. I'm absolutely certain many other coaches would've acted differently, but McLellan has his own views I guess. Again for people who seem to read me wrong all the time, this and the players part in his progress are different issues.

 

[Little Fury]

If they had played it right, he should have been getting his first taste of the NHL this season. As it is, you can start the clock on his time as an Oiler now.

 

[space321]

There are others on our team that have shown just as much as Jesse that get bumped to the press box. A guy like Strome rarely makes a mistake that costs us. He rarely contribute offensively either, but it's atleast even or better than Jesse in that regard. Anyways, we've seen Jesse in every role the organization has to give him. From developing in the AHL, to "driving his own line", to being a complement to either Drai or McDavid, to playing with his favourite center Strome..... at some point the kid just has to come through with SOMETHING.

On ice GF/GA rates last season:

Puljujarvi: 2.2/2.4
Strome: 1.9/2.2

So far this season Puljujarvi is at 1.5/3.8 which is pretty atrocious not gonna lie. While Strome is at 0.7/0.7.

He does produce when he's with McDavid or Draisaitl. Except the team doesn't do well and the blender comes out halfway through the game, then he gets bumped down for some reason, it's happened last season and it's happening again now.

 

[GameChanger]

He does produce when he's with McDavid or Draisaitl. Except the team doesn't do well and the blender comes out halfway through the game, then he gets bumped down for some reason, it's happened last season and it's happening again now.

I'm planning to step out again now, but yeah that's the thing. I was hoping by now Puljujarvi would be good enough to shine anywhere and with an kind of treatment, as that seems to be quite necessary in McLellan's Oilers. Unfortunately that's not the case right now. He doesn't really have much leash from Todd or nowadays from a lot of fans, either, so the situation is tough but could be changed with a couple of great games.

I've seen many teams put their young prospects to the top6, often the 1st line as they believe that's how they can utilize and develop the player the most. McLellan is a different kind of a coach in many ways and for one reason or another he seemed to feel Jesse is getting too much too fast on a couple of occasions and now there's all these ifs, buts, and worries going on. I don't know what the case would be right now otherwise, but I wouldn't be surprised if his confidence and development was much further in that case.

I'd be ready to support a trade pretty strongly, but I'm not sure if McLellan is going to be around for very long, and the change of the head coach could help things a lot.

 

[North]

I’m not willing to give up on Puljujarvi yet but I think consistent minutes in Bakersfield would help.

When he played in Bakersfield previously, if I recall correctly, Fleming wasn’t playing him with the most talented guys, he was playing him on lower lines too.

Maybe Woodcroft would utilize him properly.

 

[CupofOil]

What I don't get is this, Puljujarvi played a great game in Winnipeg, then the next game has his ice time REDUCED. Then the game after that he's on the 4th line. What in the ****ing world kind of message does that send? Other players get promoted and rewarded for playing well, and Jesse gets bumped down after playing well. Why? It's not like Jesse's the reason we lost to nashville or even tonight, yet he keeps getting demoted for no ****ing reason. Meanwhile guys like Strome gets PP, OT time and hasn't scored a single point all year. Mind boggling.

It's not even about if he is a bust or not, there's just a clear double standard on this team.

He's not playing well enough, bottom line. Others are, especially Yamamoto who has been far better.

I used to think like you that there was a double standard with him and I still think there is to an extent but he's played 3 games on Draisaitl's line since the Winnipeg game and has done virtually nothing with that opportunity. I'm actually surprised that Mclellan stuck with him on that line before he finally shuffled him off yesterday.

At some point, the onus is on Jesse to earn the coaches' trust. Watching him regularly, I can see why the coaches are reluctant to give him too much responsibility. Poor puck management, confused positionally and very soft on the boards.
With that said, patience is still required. I'd be interested to see if Mclellan keeps him on the Draisaitl line next game and even more curious to see what happens when Rattie returns.

 

[GameChanger]

I used to think like you that there was a double standard with him and I still think there is to an extent but he's played 3 games on Draisaitl's line since the Winnipeg game and has done virtually nothing with that opportunity. I'm actually surprised that Mclellan stuck with him on that line before he finally shuffled him off yesterday.

Sorry to stick for a bit more, but did I understand something wrong? I didn't see the games but understood he had only one full game with Drai. The other two were with some serious line mixing and I think it's a very different thing to have one period with just a few shifts instead of a full game or rather a few ones. As his TOI was just about 9 minutes he obviously didn't play too much with Drai in the 1st period anyway.

Please correct me if I got it wrong as that's possible. If he's got a few games and doesn't get anything done things may start to change, but with one full game I think it's too early to say. There was a lot of talk about this earlier and quite a few said he needs to have at least 5-10 games in the top6 to settle in before drawing bigger conclusions. That's obviously gone and it seems it was just one full game he had after all.

 

[space321]

He's not playing well enough, bottom line. Others are, especially Yamamoto who has been far better.

I used to think like you that there was a double standard with him and I still think there is to an extent but he's played 3 games on Draisaitl's line since the Winnipeg game and has done virtually nothing with that opportunity. I'm actually surprised that Mclellan stuck with him on that line before he finally shuffled him off yesterday.

At some point, the onus is on Jesse to earn the coaches' trust. Watching him regularly, I can see why the coaches are reluctant to give him too much responsibility. Poor puck management, confused positionally and very soft on the boards.
With that said, patience is still required. I'd be interested to see if Mclellan keeps him on the Draisaitl line next game and even more curious to see what happens when Rattie returns.

He's played 3 games on paper but he's probably gotten like half of his actual total playing time with Drai/Reider. And that's not much when he's averaging like 12 minutes/game.

I don't deny Jesse is not always top 6 quality. But what good is the 4th line next to Kassian and Brodziak going to do for his development? Are they even gonna try to develop him or just let him rot? One simple mistake and he's benched? What mistake did he even make last night? He pressured the penguins' D into a turnover that led to Drai's goal, then gets demoted for the rest of the game. He was on the ice for 3 goals against but hardly any of those were his fault.

You're right, he does lose the puck a lot, but i have also seen him make good plays along the boards, cycling off the boards, etc. He can play. But his leash is 10x shorter than the next guy on the team.

 

[frag2]

Sorry to stick for a bit more, but did I understand something wrong? I didn't see the games but understood he had only one full game with Drai. The other two were with some serious line mixing and I think it's a very different thing to have one period with just a few shifts instead of a full game or rather a few ones. As his TOI was just about 9 minutes he obviously didn't play too much with Drai in the 1st period anyway.

Please correct me if I got it wrong as that's possible. If he's got a few games and doesn't get anything done things may start to change, but with one full game I think it's too early to say.

The point is, he's been given top 6 opportunities and he's wasted them. At what point do you start looking at the player and realize something is amiss with the guy? A player of that 'calibre' shouldn't struggle this much IMO

I know you're a hardcore fan of his but JP has been nothing but disappointing against legit NHL competition. Preseason against tweeners, he was flying. I was excited but extremely cautious as to whether that play would translate. Low and behold, nope.

Is trading him the best option? I dunno. I'd still lean towards another 10 games, else send him to Bakersfield. If he sulks, then turf him elsewhere.

 

[GameChanger]

The point is, he's been given top 6 opportunities and he's wasted them. At what point do you start looking at the player and realize something is amiss with the guy? A player of that 'calibre' shouldn't struggle this much IMO

I know you're a hardcore fan of his but JP has been nothing but disappointing against legit NHL competition. Preseason against tweeners, he was flying. I was excited but extremely cautious as to whether that play would translate. Low and behold, nope.

Is trading him the best option? I dunno. I'd still lean towards another 10 games, else send him to Bakersfield. If he sulks, then turf him elsewhere.

Even if you see me as a hardcore fan who's thus simply wrong I feel many writers have quite short or maybe selective memories. Of course the player is accountable, too, that's natural IMO, but it's unfair to say he hasn't showed anything at all like some of you do. Do you really think the period of 15-20 games, where the Edmonton Journal gave him better grades than anyone else in the team, and where he was clearly the best scorer, was totally disappointing and nothing else?

I understand a lot, some bashing and disappointment as well, but just don't like the way the better performances are completely swiped away and where the treatment from McLellan isn't questioned, too. I also hope to get enough respect so my messages are at least read through with a thought instead of writing everything off because I'm seen as just a biased fan. I'm doing my best to do the same for others, and try to do better if I notice I've failed in that.

 

[frag2]

Even if you see me as a hardcore fan who's thus simply wrong I feel many writers have quite short or maybe selective memories. Of course the player is accountable, too, that's natural IMO, but it's unfair to say he hasn't showed anything at all like some of you do. Do you really think the period of 15-20 games, where the Edmonton Journal gave him better grades than anyone else in the team, and where he was clearly the best scorer, was totally disappointing and nothing else?

I understand a lot, some bashing and disappointment as well, but just don't like the way the better performances are completely swiped away and where the treatment from McLellan isn't questioned, too. I also hope to get enough respect so my messages are at least read through with a thought instead of writing everything off because I'm seen as just a biased fan. I'm doing my best to do the same for others, and try to do better if I notice I've failed in that.

Are you saying you're not?
I think most read your posts clearly. It's just you never seem to fault JP for any of his own shortcomings, alway blaming other factors.

And I don't put any weight on any of EJ's ratings. They're no different than you, me, or anyone else here grading players.

 

[McShogun99]

Staple JP to the second line and let him play. Don't let him worry about getting benched for making mistakes .

 

[GameChanger]

Are you saying you're not?
I think most read your posts clearly. It's just you never seem to fault JP for any of his own shortcomings, alway blaming other factors.

And I don't put any weight on any of EJ's ratings. They're no different than you, me, or anyone else here grading players.

Whatever you see me as is okay. You see me as a hardcore fan with a bias and I see you as the few people who've had strong opinions against Pulju pretty much all the time. That's fine, no problem there.

It's frustrating as I seem to mention the player's part almost too much nowadays, but feel some of you don't accept or notice that as I concentrate on the coaches part as I feel that's something that could fix the problems to at least some extent.

The player's development is something that happens at a rate it happens and the skills are what they are. It's reasonable to expect and demand development from that side, and frustrating when it doesn't seem to happen as fast as hoped. But before McLellan is treating him like most other top prospects are handled it's impossible to say that couldn't have been a quicker fix for now and IMO better for the player's development, whatever his personal role is.

Yeah the EJ grades are from just one person, but it's quite a strange thing if the grades are great, the player is scoring and most fans seem happy, but the player didn't show anything during that period at all. I wonder what him showing something or even being good with be.

Now I'm ready to go on as this gets into a circle easily and from the earlier experience I know it's easy to downplay my thoughts as a fan and the stats I've mentioned with whatever excuse. As always, I do say this with all respect and at least some understanding towards your opinion, honestly.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Maybe sending him down wouldn't be a bad idea. Literally make him earn the recall after gaining confidence and putting up numbers. Maybe Woodcroft would be better for him than Todd as well. This shouldn't even be a conversation, the fact that he might have just lost his job to a NHL journeyman speaks volumes to how he needs to be better.

Play him on the top PP unit in the one time position as well and when he returns slot him into that spot on the big club.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Staple JP to the second line and let him play. Don't let him worry about getting benched for making mistakes .

That doesn't seem possible with this coach. Honestly he needs a benching or a demotion to Bako to get going.