Injury Report: Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part IX)

[ECWHSWI]

I don't know what you are quibbling about. If a guy puts up 1st line type numbers for 63 games, what's wrong with me responding to a guy who says he does not even have 2nd line potential?

basic, very basic : 1st line numbers, 1st line player.

I don't know what's the problem with this, you are the one showing he got 1st line numbers.

 

[BaseballCoach]

basic, very basic : 1st line numbers, 1st line player.

I don't know what's the problem with this, you are the one showing he got 1st line numbers.

Do you think Shaw is a first line player? Or a hopeless, never will be top-6 player?

 

[Lenir105]

When Drouin was moved off of Domi's wing, his production had dipped. It didn't dry up completely like it did with KK. Jeeze man do you guys have eyes to see how Domi and KK played the game.Max was setting up teammates at least 4-5 times a game. Domi could set me up for scoring chances. KK was barely keeping his head above water. He wasn't setting up anyone on a constant basis. And you want to place the best wingers with him.

You guys were also clamouring for the kid to be placed on the PP. You got your wish on the 1st unit no less. What did he accomplish?

What dis anyone accomplish on the PP this year ? At least be honest when you argue.

 

[Guns n Roses]

I'd much rather have Poehling in the AHL than on the 4th line.

How about making him 1st line center on the Habs where he belongs? The ONLY thing holding him back from 1C is Danault, our Achilles heal.

 

[Archijerej]

Do you think Shaw is a first line player? Or a hopeless, never will be top-6 player?

I think people are obsessing about labels. It all depends on your line compositions. I'd call Shaw a middle-6 player, but I can imagine him as a complimentary player on the first line with two star players. So I guess he's a top-9 player who can play a supporting role on any of the top three lines. Didn't he play with Toews and Hossa in Chicago?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Do you think Shaw is a first line player? Or a hopeless, never will be top-6 player?

dont ask me, ask yourself, YOU are the one who showed he got 1st line numbers.

Unless you are saying he has 1st line number but he is not a first line player ???

 

[Andrei79]

Lmfao. This is getting ugly.



Shaw is better than Armia. Yes. Give Shaw to KK. Tatar is better than Lehkonen. Why not give KK one of these? But more to the point, why the b-list acting? ''ZERMG WHO ELSE IS THERE?'' Well, you seem to have rubbed your few brain cells together enough to provide the spark to figure it all out. Yes, I would like KK to have one or more of Shaw/Tatar/Gallagher/maybe we get lucky in the draft. What about it?

As I recall, you were actually the lone critical voice of the Drouin trade. Now he's the best on the team?

Notice you backed down from being more than ''not surprised.'' Didn't have the stomach for it after all? Lmao.



Lmao. So what? Of course he was sheltered. He was also excellent. You can't have asked more from Kotkaniemi, and to the extent that he could impress with the competition and team mates he was given, he excelled. He was still taking a regular shift in the NHL. Nobody's playing against only scrubs, and nobody's playing in the super NHL.

On the other hand, wanna know a fun fact? Without Gallagher or Tatar, Danault was a minus player and a possession black hole this year. Really earning them linemates.



I actually didn't ask anything about KK. I asked about Danault. Why must Danault have the best wingers? He can't take muh tough matchups without the best wingers on the team padding his stats?

What's interesting here is also how irrelevant Danault is to both Tatars and Gallaghers possession numbers, who do just fine without him.

But let's make sure our 12 goal scoring center gets his secondary assists, so he only looks barely average by 2nd line center standards.

I say this as someome who actually likes Danault. But, it makes no sense to me that I've seen posters suggest even putting Domi on the wing for this guy. If we're lucky and all three of Domi,KK and Poehling reach their upside, he'll be the worst center of the 4 by a significant margin. Even if they don't, what he brings to the table doesn't even justify holding out Poehlings and KKs development.

 

[CanadienShark]

How does a player get drafted into a specific position?

He didn't say "drafted into centre." He said they were drafted "as centremen." That's true. They were drafted as players that played centre. That doesn't mean they'll always play there, but it's what they were drafted as.

 

[Habs Icing]

You are using “0ur” PP to support your argument? Interesting...

Yes I'm using our PP. When posters were clamouring for KK to be placed on it because they were positive he would make a difference, I want to point out that he made no difference. None whatsoever.

 

[1909]

How about making him 1st line center on the Habs where he belongs? The ONLY thing holding him back from 1C is Danault, our Achilles heal.

How much more nonsense can you puke ? Domi is our #1 center. Danault is among one of the best two way second-line centre. in the NHL. Just as Gallagher. Eventually, danault gonna play 3rd line WHEN KK will be ready to play less sheltered minutes on the 2nd line, and be able to be better on the road, too.

 

[Habs Icing]

Not entirely objective though.

Drouin was producing with Domi, then stopped producing with Domi. Maybe Drouin's production drop did not have to do with his centremen, but him.

What was very unfortunate for KK was that the Drouin he was given was in a terrible slump. You should not have to ask an 18 year old to shelter a 23-24 yo. The fact it was even considered shows that they think highly of KK.

Here is what I would like to see as the next step (not the lineup in 3 years!):

Drouin-Domi-Shaw
Lehkonen-Danault-Gallagher
Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Byron-Poehling-Weal

I don't care how you number the lines.

You place Tatar with KK and Tatar will have a big dip in production. For two reason. KK does not have an offensive side to his game....you can add "yet" to that sentence if it offends you. Also Tatar and KK do not have complementary approaches to the game. Add Armia to the mix and I predict it will be a dismal season for the Big Tuna.

 

[Habs Icing]

What dis anyone accomplish on the PP this year ? At least be honest when you argue.

Look, you can't have 70-80% of this board screaming for KK to play on the PP because they think he will make a difference and then when he does squat give me the argument well no one else did anything on it. He was totally lost on the PP. At times he would even get in the way of linemates that's how much of a cluster puck he was on the PP.

 

[Guns n Roses]

How much more nonsense can you puke ? Domi is our #1 center. Danault is among one of the best two way second-line centre. in the NHL. Just as Gallagher. Eventually, danault gonna play 3rd line WHEN KK will be ready to play less sheltered minutes on the 2nd line, and be able to be better on the road, too.

Domi should be our #1 left wing.

Danault should be #3 center

KK is ready for #2 center as of next season

Poehling is ready for #1 center, he is already way better than Danault.

 

[26Mats]

Domi should be our #1 left wing.

Danault should be #3 center

KK is ready for #2 center as of next season

Poehling is ready for #1 center, he is already way better than Danault.

I think you're jumping the gun, to say the least.

At the end of the day we'll find out at training camp next year. But for the final stretch, Kotkaniemi wasn't even as good a center as Jordan Weal, let alone Domi or Danault. Poehling has played 1 NHL game.

Let's be patient with both of these very promising youngsters.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes I'm using our PP. When posters were clamouring for KK to be placed on it because they were positive he would make a difference, I want to point out that he made no difference. None whatsoever.

Incorrect. He was making a difference as the triggerman on the right side.

Then Chu-Rien took him off the PP.

Then when he put him back, he put him on the left point, where Drouin had previously played and failed. The player in that spot should be a RH shot.

 

[BaseballCoach]

dont ask me, ask yourself, YOU are the one who showed he got 1st line numbers.

Unless you are saying he has 1st line number but he is not a first line player ???

What I am saying is that it is not true that Gallagher is our only RW with any right to play in a top-6 role. Shaw has proven he could easily do so in 63 games with us this year. There is no reason to claim he is out of the question for 82 games. Not at 27 years old.

To put in context, on 17 teams, Shaw would have been teh second most productive RW, and on 14 teams he would have been the most productive RW.

Not a single team had two RW with more ppg than Shaw.

Only two teams had two RW with more gpg than Shaw, while 10 teams had NO RW with more gpg than Shaw.

Now next year he may or may not repeat this performance, but to say he is not a candidate to be a top-6 player is ridiculous.

 

[26Mats]

Poehling dominated the WJC, he dominated his league, he stepped in the NHL and dominated more than we have ever seen Danault dominate. He’s a man teen and way more advanced than Kotka right now. Poehling and Kotka will be our 1st and 2nd line center dynamite duo. Bookmark it. Despite our Achilles heal/teacher’s pet Danault.

Poehling
Kotka
Danault

I don’t understand those who would be scared to play Poehling at #1 right now..

Domi-Poehling-Gally

I think he would be extremely well surrounded on this line. He’s not a little ***** boy like Drouin, he can handle it. He’s a real hockey player. Prototypical center. I lol at those who are scared ****less to take chances. Let’s keep Danot in our top 6 for ever. See where that gets us.

Even if we were given rookie Crosby he would play behind Danault for the next 3 years.

Just wait until camp. No one's scared of anything. It's a matter of what's best for the team and the player's development. And with young players you have to be patient.

Why did it take Hertl and Couturier until the age of 25 to break out and become really good #1 or #2 c's? Some would say it's because they were rushed into the NHL at 18. Some would say it's because they didn't get an opportunity early enough. Whatever the case, I'm in favor of doing whatever is best for Poehling and KK's development. I like what I see from them to be big time players when they are ready to be.

Oh, and Danault isn't our Achilles heal, even if he's a 3c. But fyi, Tatar Danault Gallagher was one of the best lines in the league 5 on 5, statistically.

 

[1909]

Domi should be our #1 left wing.

Danault should be #3 center

KK is ready for #2 center as of next season

Poehling is ready for #1 center, he is already way better than Danault.

Read the previous posts by our fellow posters....

 

[Guns n Roses]

Just wait until camp. No one's scared of anything. It's a matter of what's best for the team and the player's development. And with young players you have to be patient.

Why did it take Hertl and Couturier until the age of 25 to break out and become really good #1 or #2 c's? Some would say it's because they were rushed into the NHL at 18. Some would say it's because they didn't get an opportunity early enough. Whatever the case, I'm in favor of doing whatever is best for Poehling and KK's development. I like what I see from them to be big time players when they are ready to be.

Oh, and Danault isn't our Achilles heal, even if he's a 3c. But fyi, Tatar Danault Gallagher was one of the best lines in the league 5 on 5, statistically.

Danault is our Achilles heal/teachers pet, no young centers will ever sniff the top 6 while he is here. If Kotka was given Tatar and Gallagher as wingers when he still had gas in the tank he would have been dominant. He also played too much hockey before the NHL and ran out gas. That ain’t going to happen next season, he will be a year older and will have a full tank for the whole season. Poehling is already way better than Danault, his offensive instincts blow Danault out of the water. Like I said, give us rookie Crosby and Claude will play him behind Danault for the next 3 years.

Some people think because a coach does things a certain way that he is right, because he is the authority. I pride myself on being able to see the future. I already know how this all plays out. And it will be pathetic. Poehling will be given shitty wingers and low minutes. Bookmark this post, you will hate CJ after this season, he’s gonna f*** Poehling around. You will be swearing at your TV. I’m starting to hate Danault and it’s all CJs fault.

 

[1909]

Danault is our Achilles heal/teachers pet, no young centers will ever sniff the top 6 while he is here. If Kotka was given Tatar and Gallagher as wingers when he still had gas in the tank he would have been dominant. He also played too much hockey before the NHL and ran out gas. That ain’t going to happen next season, he will be a year older and will have a full tank for the whole season. Poehling is already way better than Danault, his offensive instincts blow Danault out of the water. Like I said, give us rookie Crosby and Claude will play him behind Danault for the next 3 years.

Some people think because a coach does things a certain way that he is right, because he is the authority. I pride myself on being able to see the future. I already know how this all plays out. And it will be pathetic. Poehling will be given ****ty wingers and low minutes. Bookmark this post, you will hate CJ after this season, he’s gonna **** Poehling around. You will be swearing at your TV. I’m starting to hate Danault and it’s all CJs fault.

So much energy wasted.... You hate Danault. Why not just tell it and turn the f***ing page !

 

[26Mats]

Danault is our Achilles heal/teachers pet, no young centers will ever sniff the top 6 while he is here. If Kotka was given Tatar and Gallagher as wingers when he still had gas in the tank he would have been dominant. He also played too much hockey before the NHL and ran out gas. That ain’t going to happen next season, he will be a year older and will have a full tank for the whole season. Poehling is already way better than Danault, his offensive instincts blow Danault out of the water. Like I said, give us rookie Crosby and Claude will play him behind Danault for the next 3 years.

Some people think because a coach does things a certain way that he is right, because he is the authority. I pride myself on being able to see the future. I already know how this all plays out. And it will be pathetic. Poehling will be given ****ty wingers and low minutes. Bookmark this post, you will hate CJ after this season, he’s gonna **** Poehling around. You will be swearing at your TV. I’m starting to hate Danault and it’s all CJs fault.

If that's your opinion you should hate CJ and not Danault. Danault gives his all every shift and should be in conversation for the Selke. He will be an important piece moving forward...

I wanted KK to get Gallagher, Tatar and Drouin before he ran out of gas. But I'm not prepared to say he wouldn't have ran out of gas had he gotten them. Nor am I prepared to say he won't run out of gas next year.

I'm more concerned about what KK will be like at 20, 21, 22, 23, than 19. I want whatever is best for his development next year. If we get lucky and sign Hayes or Duchene, and KK can't beat out Domi and Danault, I have zero problem with KK devleoping in Laval, playing 20 minutes a night in all situations - if that's better than him playing 4c or 4th line wing in the NHL.

 

[lillypad33]

Danault is our Achilles heal/teachers pet, no young centers will ever sniff the top 6 while he is here. If Kotka was given Tatar and Gallagher as wingers when he still had gas in the tank he would have been dominant. He also played too much hockey before the NHL and ran out gas. That ain’t going to happen next season, he will be a year older and will have a full tank for the whole season. Poehling is already way better than Danault, his offensive instincts blow Danault out of the water. Like I said, give us rookie Crosby and Claude will play him behind Danault for the next 3 years.

Some people think because a coach does things a certain way that he is right, because he is the authority. I pride myself on being able to see the future. I already know how this all plays out. And it will be pathetic. Poehling will be given ****ty wingers and low minutes. Bookmark this post, you will hate CJ after this season, he’s gonna **** Poehling around. You will be swearing at your TV. I’m starting to hate Danault and it’s all CJs fault.

Some of the most short sighted bullshit ideas I've heard on this board.
You watched a player have one good hand in the NHL and you're going to crown him the #1 center?

 

[LaTenderness]

Do you think Shaw is a first line player? Or a hopeless, never will be top-6 player?

I still think he’s 3rd line at best

 

[BaseballCoach]

I still think he’s 3rd line at best

And my neighbour thinks the earth is flat, but then there are figures and science.

Obviously, Shaw "at so far best" produced at a first line rate. He might, even if not likely, do even better in the future. Tatar did better at 28 than 27 for example.

But to say "at best" and ignore this year, the most recent data, is not scientific.

You're entitled to want strong players on your third line. Heck, so do I. But that is not a reason to undervalue the guys we have.

 

[Guns n Roses]

So much energy wasted.... You hate Danault. Why not just tell it and turn the ****ing page !

Did you even read what I wrote? Did you take anything from it? You love him in your top 6? He’s your first line center? That ship is never going anywhere. Ship is sinking...