Injury Report: Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part IX)

[LaTenderness]

And my neighbour thinks the earth is flat, but then there are figures and science.

Obviously, Shaw "at so far best" produced at a first line rate. He might, even if not likely, do even better in the future. Tatar did better at 28 than 27 for example.

But to say "at best" and ignore this year, the most recent data, is not scientific.

You're entitled to want strong players on your third line. Heck, so do I. But that is not a reason to undervalue the guys we have.

Sounds like you’re as good at identifying top line talent as your neighbor is at identifying shapes. You truly believe that because Shaw hit an astronomical 47 points in 3 quarters of a season this year that he’s a top 6 or even top line player?

He’s a 30 point guy thru his first 3 years here in Montreal and wasn’t much more then a 30 point plug in his 3 or so years prior with the high flying Hawks. That is if you want to use “figures and science” and objectively look at his entire body of work.

I’m entitled to want someone stronger then a 30 ish point slug in my teams top 6, but maybe that’s too much to ask.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Sounds like you’re as good at identifying top line talent as your neighbor is at identifying shapes. You truly believe that because Shaw hit an astronomical 47 points in 3 quarters of a season this year that he’s a top 6 or even top line player?

He’s a 30 point guy thru his first 3 years here in Montreal and wasn’t much more then a 30 point plug in his 3 or so years prior with the high flying Hawks. That is if you want to use “figures and science” and objectively look at his entire body of work.

I’m entitled to want someone stronger then a 30 ish point slug in my teams top 6, but maybe that’s too much to ask.

His last two years he scored at 35 and 32 points per 82 games. Now who were his centremen? 30-40 point guys. Or he played C for the fourth line himself because we had no one else.

This year he produced at a 61 point pace with Domi. Now you might say that "anyone" can produce with Domi, but this year Shaw produced better than Drouin did with Domi, and better than Tatar as well, believe it or not..

I don't know for sure if Shaw can repeat his top-two line performance (despite less ice time than anyone else at his level), but he has room to drop back to a 37 point pace and still be in the top-48 which is middle of the road second line.

All this being said, I would be really happy if we had two better RW than him!

 

[Archijerej]

Sure.

Here's what else changed, though. He is playing center and flying all the time. As a winger, he needs to battle more. Which means flying less.

But doesn't it depend more on a role in a system? I mean I doubt Patrick Kane, Panarin, Kucherov or other finesse wingers battle more than their respective centers. You are overstating the case I feel. It's no longer the 70s, when wingers were glued to the boards. It was players like Kharlamov and Makarov who were flying all over the ice, not Petrov and Larionov. It all depends on game organisation. Don't want Domi to battle along the boards? Don't dump the puck into his corner, have him making cross-ice cuts into the middle etc. Surely, Claude Julien understands those things.

 

[BaseballCoach]

But doesn't it depend more on a role in a system? I mean I doubt Patrick Kane, Panarin, Kucherov or other finesse wingers battle more than their respective centers. You are overstating the case I feel. It's no longer the 70s, when wingers were glued to the boards. It was players like Kharlamov and Makarov who were flying all over the ice, not Petrov and Larionov. It all depends on game organisation. Don't want Domi to battle along the boards? Don't dump the puck into his corner, have him making cross-ice cuts into the middle etc. Surely, Claude Julien understands those things.

So, he plays like the center but doesn't take important draws?

 

[Habs Icing]

That was not his point. But that point is equally bonkers.

Domi's skills include great adaptation proficiency. With a high-end center (and Domi will never be that because of the faceoff abilities he's lacking), LW would make no difference to him. He's been alternating for 10 years.

Yeah because that's a skill that can't be learned and developed. By the way KK and Domi had roughly the same faceoff numbers. Does that mean we should move the rookie to the wing also?

 

[Archijerej]

So, he plays like the center but doesn't take important draws?

No, he plays as a winger, especially in the defensive phases, just not like a 1970s winger.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Yeah because that's a skill that can't be learned and developed. By the way KK and Domi had roughly the same faceoff numbers. Does that mean we should move the rookie to the wing also?

Face offs are not the main issue, the defensive part of the game is where the issue lies. Sure he can do the job, but he’s not a prototypical center. He’s not a Danault, a Plekanec, a Kotkaniemi, a Poehling.. he’s closer to David Desharnais defensively. Don’t get me wrong, his offense at center was totally there, and he did things that Desharnais and Danault are incapable of.

 

[Guns n Roses]

No, he plays as a winger, especially in the defensive phases, just not like a 1970s winger.

I don’t understand what people see when they watch Domi play. He’s an amazing player, the type of guy who proved he could thrive in an offensive centerman role, but he’s not a real center and will never be one. He’s a guy that will thrive wherever you put him because he’s that good offensively. But he’s not a real center. He doesn’t have the defensive awareness. Danault is a real center, albeit offensively challenged.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Danault PP TOI per game : 0:29
Kotkaniemi PP TOI per game : 1:56
Domi PP TOI per game : 2:34

Danault SH TOI per game : 2:30
Kotkaniemi SH TOI per game : 0:00
Domi SH TOI per game : 0:03

Lol no center can dream of producing in Montreal because of Danault stealing all the quality time on ice!

He steals the quality wingers for 5 on 5 play when he’s out of position in the top 6. A team with Danault as a #1 or #2 center is a losing one. Do you watch the games or just like to look at flawed stats?

 

[BaseballCoach]

Danault PP TOI per game : 0:29
Kotkaniemi PP TOI per game : 1:56
Domi PP TOI per game : 2:34

Danault SH TOI per game : 2:30
Kotkaniemi SH TOI per game : 0:00
Domi SH TOI per game : 0:03

Lol no center can dream of producing in Montreal because of Danault stealing all the quality time on ice!

Don't bother. #DaveChapelle just digs his heels in. You made your point and made it well.

 

[Habs Icing]

Face offs are not the main issue, the defensive part of the game is where the issue lies. Sure he can do the job, but he’s not a prototypical center. He’s not a Danault, a Plekanec, a Kotkaniemi, a Poehling.. he’s closer to David Desharnais defensively. Don’t get me wrong, his offense at center was totally there, and he did things that Desharnais and Danault are incapable of.

KK was also not a Domi on offense. So what? To quote Al Arbour."Get me a player that can score and I'll teach him defense." I don't totally agree with Al. Case in point Drouin but Domi's defence is more than adequate and with time will improve.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He steals the quality wingers for 5 on 5 play when he’s out of position in the top 6. A team with Danault as a #1 or #2 center is a losing one. Do you watch the games or just like to look at flawed stats?

Danault steals quality wingers and they get productive seasons.

Domi steals the puck and his line scores a ton of goals.

With a weak defensive corps, both lines centered by these guys were big pluses.

Give us more thieves.

 

[Guns n Roses]

KK was also not a Domi on offense. So what? To quote Al Arbour."Get me a player that can score and I'll teach him defense." I don't totally agree with Al. Case in point Drouin but Domi's defence is more than adequate and with time will improve.

Why force a squared peg in a round hole when we have two amazing round pegs. And we have a perfect square hole on the left? Domi will thrive no matter what. What exactly are you afraid of? So starved for centers that you can’t see what a real center is anymore?

You guys are wrong, and you will see. Domi will be moved to the wing eventually. 100% happening.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Danault steals quality wingers and they get productive seasons.

Domi steals the puck and his line scores a ton of goals.

With a weak defensive corps, both lines centered by these guys were big pluses.

Give us more thieves.

No vision. You just agree with everything CJ says and does.

 

[Hockey Stick]

No vision. You just agree with everything CJ says and does.

The guy isn't wrong though... on a line with Danault, Gallagher got 30+ goals and Tatar got 25+. He's a potential Selke candidate and that allowed his wingers to play more offensively... that sounds like a darn good centre man to have in your top 6. Whatever wingers Domi played with elevated their games to be able to keep up with his speed and energy.
It seems like you and your vision are looking right past that stuff

 

[Deluded Puck]

Doing this would not be doing the kid any favours, nor help the team.

The proven NHLers will not appreciate a rookie being gifted an opening day first line role. It's not just about Danault. We just had another centreman score 72 points for us for only the second time in over 20 years.

Akso, the rookie will be in for a massive letdown if or rather WHEN things don't work at some point.

I'm certified to coach a team sport up to the national level. I would never take the risk of upsetting the team dynamic like you are suggesting.

Yep all this “respecting traditions” has done what for us in the past 25 years?

 

[Mrb1p]

Yep all this “respecting traditions” has done what for us in the past 25 years?

A M E N
M
E
N

 

[Mrb1p]

Don't bother. #DaveChapelle just digs his heels in. You made your point and made it well.

 

[DangerDave]

Sounds like you’re as good at identifying top line talent as your neighbor is at identifying shapes. You truly believe that because Shaw hit an astronomical 47 points in 3 quarters of a season this year that he’s a top 6 or even top line player?

He’s a 30 point guy thru his first 3 years here in Montreal and wasn’t much more then a 30 point plug in his 3 or so years prior with the high flying Hawks. That is if you want to use “figures and science” and objectively look at his entire body of work.

I’m entitled to want someone stronger then a 30 ish point slug in my teams top 6, but maybe that’s too much to ask.

I like Shaw with Domi. No reason you can't get a very good player to upgrade the third and have 3 strong lines.

 

[BaseballCoach]

No vision. You just agree with everything CJ says and does.

Hahahahahaha, people here know I call him Chu-Rien and think nothing good of him!

 

[Habs Icing]

Why force a squared peg in a round hole when we have two amazing round pegs. And we have a perfect square hole on the left? Domi will thrive no matter what. What exactly are you afraid of? So starved for centers that you can’t see what a real center is anymore?

You guys are wrong, and you will see. Domi will be moved to the wing eventually. 100% happening.

If KK, Poehling , Suzuki, Danault, Weal and Evans can outplay Domi at center, I'll be ecstatic. Until that happens, Domi is not only a top center on this team but on almost any team in the league.

 

[LaTenderness]

I was hoping to have Alanis stuck in my head all day ....... a little tooooooo Ironic

 

[Habs Icing]

To put things in perspective for all those posters that want KK to be given the top wingers, here's a little dose of reality. Shaw was named Shawful by the so-called experts in this forum. Domi played 2/3s of the year with this Shawful player and scored 72 points. During the last part of the season Max also was saddled with Lehkonen a player who is either one of the most snake-bitten wingers or one of the worse offensive players in the league. Did Domi's numbers drop when Leky was on his line? Nope. So KK gets better wingers when he deserves them. When he can make players on his line better just like Domi does.

 

[goforit]

Welcome to Montreal...

Welcome to the NHL, where every teams have centers playing wing. KK has not been 'tried' at wing, he has been plugged there because he was struggling in a playoff race and has been outplayed by others. Still, the coach wanted him on the ice instead of in the pressbox so he played him at wing.

As much as I like KK, he struggled in the last quarter of the season. Physically and mentally. He was not quick enough, he was giving the puck away and was losing his board battles. He will be great, but please people, stop whining with the way CJ used him at the end of the season.

 

[Archijerej]

Welcome to the NHL, where every teams have centers playing wing. KK has not been 'tried' at wing, he has been plugged there because he was struggling in a playoff race and has been outplayed by others. Still, the coach wanted him on the ice instead of in the pressbox so he played him at wing.

As much as I like KK, he struggled in the last quarter of the season. Physically and mentally. He was not quick enough, he was giving the puck away and was losing his board battles. He will be great, but please people, stop whining with the way CJ used him at the end of the season.

Don't bother. It's the Galchenyuk-effect again with Kotkaniemi, which is a scientifically proven case of mass hallucination. It can last as long as five years and it's not treatable. Any discussion is futile.