Injury Report: Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part IX)

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

Danault PP TOI per game : 0:29
Kotkaniemi PP TOI per game : 1:56
Domi PP TOI per game : 2:34

Danault SH TOI per game : 2:30
Kotkaniemi SH TOI per game : 0:00
Domi SH TOI per game : 0:03

Lol no center can dream of producing in Montreal because of Danault stealing all the quality time on ice!

 

[SOLR]

Baseball coach's point is take a look at Domi's skills and weaknesses. They're perfectly suited for center and disadvantaged for the wing. So instead of devaluing your asset by moving him to the wing trade him for his full value. But that will never happen because I doubt any of the centers we have now will develop into better centers than Domi.

That was not his point. But that point is equally bonkers.

Domi's skills include great adaptation proficiency. With a high-end center (and Domi will never be that because of the faceoff abilities he's lacking), LW would make no difference to him. He's been alternating for 10 years.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Some of the most short sighted bull**** ideas I've heard on this board.
You watched a player have one good hand in the NHL and you're going to crown him the #1 center?

The World Junior MVP, Dominated his league, stepped in one game in the NHL and did something Danault couldn’t dream of doing offensively.

I look at KK and I see a #1 Center

I look at Poehling and I see a #1 Center

Danault is a great #3 Center and I love Phil in that role.

Domi-Poehling-Gally
Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Shaw
Byron-Danault-Suzuki

This is how I would start the year until a player shows me he’s in the wrong position.
All 3 rookies are very well insulated. CJ will never do this. I resent him for it. I can’t help but resent Danault for playing in the top 6. He doesn’t belong there. I want offensive instinct in my top 6.

Even if we were given rookie McDavid he would play behind Danault and it would be almost impossible to pass Danault. That’s why I call him our Achilles heel. The real problem is CJ.

The future:

Poehling #1C
Kotkaniemi #1C
Danault #3C

Poehling goes to the net hard with speed and skill, he’s a man. I would try him on the first line as of next season. He’s physically and mentally ready. For the first time in forever we have 2 future 1st line centers. Let’s play them in their offensive roles right now, this is a young man’s league. Kotka will come back a different player at training camp, he will blow us away next season. This is what I would do and MY predictions, I’m telling everyone to bookmark me, you can call me out on it next season. No need for anyone to feel triggered.

 

[ahmedou]

Why were Jesperi Kotkaniemi and Ryan Poehling tried at left wing at season end when they were drafted as centermen?

Welcome to Montreal...

 

[SOLR]

What I am saying is that 72 point centers have a lot of value, more than 72 point wingers and certainly more than 45 point wingers.

Of course a 72 point center has more value than a 45 point winger. Insinuating that he would go back to his Arizona production if he was playing the wing again is quite ridiculous.

It depends on his linemates.
It depends on the team.
It depends on the system.
It depends on Domi's development.
etc.

All of the above changed.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Of course a 72 point center has more value than a 45 point winger. Insinuating that he would go back to his Arizona production if he was playing the wing again is quite ridiculous.

It depends on his linemates.
It depends on the team.
It depends on the system.
It depends on Domi's development.
etc.

All of the above changed.

Sure.

Here's what else changed, though. He is playing center and flying all the time. As a winger, he needs to battle more. Which means flying less.

I'm not just giving you after the fact rationalizations. Go back to the posts after the trade, which I was not very happy about. But you will see that I said that the only way it would work out for us would be for the coaches to ignore the IdiotGM's idea that Domi should play wing and Drouin center, and make Domi a center so he could use his speed and playmaking skills more.

But even if Domi could score 60 points as a winger, he has more trade value as a center.

 

[SOLR]

Sure.

Here's what else changed, though. He is playing center and flying all the time. As a winger, he needs to battle more. Which means flying less.

I'm not just giving you after the fact rationalizations. Go back to the posts after the trade, which I was not very happy about. But you will see that I said that the only way it would work out for us would be for the coaches to ignore the IdiotGM's idea that Domi should play wing and Drouin center, and make Domi a center so he could use his speed and playmaking skills more.

But even if Domi could score 60 points as a winger, he has more trade value as a center.

It's about role, not position.

If KK develops the way it should, Domi will fly as much on his wing and would play the same role without the responsibilities = more output.

 

[ECWHSWI]

What I am saying is that it is not true that Gallagher is our only RW with any right to play in a top-6 role. Shaw has proven he could easily do so in 63 games with us this year. There is no reason to claim he is out of the question for 82 games. Not at 27 years old.

To put in context, on 17 teams, Shaw would have been teh second most productive RW, and on 14 teams he would have been the most productive RW.

Not a single team had two RW with more ppg than Shaw.

Only two teams had two RW with more gpg than Shaw, while 10 teams had NO RW with more gpg than Shaw.

Now next year he may or may not repeat this performance, but to say he is not a candidate to be a top-6 player is ridiculous.

if one 63 games season is a PROOF, then Shaw is a 1st liner...

YOU are the one who keep bringing numbers showing HE IS producing at 1st line level... yet YOU are arguing against me who is saying he is a 1st liner...

wtf man ? is he a 1st liner yes or no ? just that, yes or no ? nothing else, only yes or no ?

 

[BaseballCoach]

if one 63 games season is a PROOF, then Shaw is a 1st liner...

YOU are the one who keep bringing numbers showing HE IS producing at 1st line level... yet YOU are arguing against me who is saying he is a 1st liner...

wtf man ? is he a 1st liner yes or no ? just that, yes or no ? nothing else, only yes or no ?

One season of first line production is not a GUARANTEE that future production will be at first line level. It would be an error to EVER think there is a guarantee, but relatively moreso when it was a career-best year.

At the same time, it is at least as erroneous to state that the player has "no reasonable chance" to be a second line producer, since he has in the most recent season shown he can, and by a fair margin.

So, if you want a yes or no answer to the question I was examining: Is Andrew Shaw able to be a top two line producer? -- my answer is yes, he is able.

If your question is: what role would I like Shaw to have, my one word answer would be 5th-liner, because it means we had four guys better than him, which would be awesome.

Big difference between what role a player actually has in the league, and what his ideal role should be.

 

[ECWHSWI]

One season of first line production is not a GUARANTEE that future production will be at first line level. It would be an error to EVER think there is a guarantee, but relatively moreso when it was a career-best year.

At the same time, it is at least as erroneous to state that the player has "no reasonable chance" to be a second line producer, since he has in the most recent season shown he can, and by a fair margin.

So, if you want a yes or no answer to the question I was examining: Is Andrew Shaw able to be a top two line producer? -- my answer is yes, he is able.

If your question is: what role would I like Shaw to have, my one word answer would be 5th-liner, because it means we had four guys better than him, which would be awesome.

Big difference between what role a player actually has in the league, and what his ideal role should be.

deflecting once again.

hit me up when you feel like having an honest debate.

Bye.

 

[BaseballCoach]

deflecting once again.

hit me up when you feel like having an honest debate.

Bye.

Honest debate? Glad to have one. Up to your last message before this one, you never said what role you think Shaw fills.

Please clarify if YOU actually think Andrew Shaw is a first liner, like you wrote in your last message, because I'm not sure if you mean it.

I've told you that I disagree with the poster who said Shaw has no chance to be a top two line player. I think he can be. There are no guarantees. But he definitely can be in my opinion. I have not heard a single "definitely" from you, on this or any other topic.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What would we have to lose by staring him out at #1C in the beginning of the year when the league is easier? If things get to hard for him later on in the season we can bump him down. Nothing to lose and everything to gain. Phil Danault will still be the same player if we need him. It’s like having a Ferrari but not going past third gear because you are scared to go fast.

Doing this would not be doing the kid any favours, nor help the team.

The proven NHLers will not appreciate a rookie being gifted an opening day first line role. It's not just about Danault. We just had another centreman score 72 points for us for only the second time in over 20 years.

Akso, the rookie will be in for a massive letdown if or rather WHEN things don't work at some point.

I'm certified to coach a team sport up to the national level. I would never take the risk of upsetting the team dynamic like you are suggesting.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Honest debate? Glad to have one. Up to your last message before this one, you never said what role you think Shaw fills.

Please clarify if YOU actually think Andrew Shaw is a first liner, like you wrote in your last message, because I'm not sure if you mean it.

I've told you that I disagree with the poster who said Shaw has no chance to be a top two line player. I think he can be. There are no guarantees. But he definitely can be in my opinion. I have not heard a single "definitely" from you, on this or any other topic.

no you're not. spent your last post deflecting avery, very basic YES/NO question. and you're spending this very post making sure to derail subject just to avoit this, again, very very basic YES/NO question.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Doing this would not be doing the kid any favours, nor help the team.

The proven NHLers will not appreciate a rookie being gifted an opening day first line role. It's not just about Danault. We just had another centreman score 72 points for us for only the second time in over 20 years.

Akso, the rookie will be in for a massive letdown if or rather WHEN things don't work at some point.

I'm certified to coach a team sport up to the national level. I would never take the risk of upsetting the team dynamic like you are suggesting.

who cares. You are not coaching any sport at an (inter)national level.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Doing this would not be doing the kid any favours, nor help the team.

The proven NHLers will not appreciate a rookie being gifted an opening day first line role. It's not just about Danault. We just had another centreman score 72 points for us for only the second time in over 20 years.

Akso, the rookie will be in for a massive letdown if or rather WHEN things don't work at some point.

I'm certified to coach a team sport up to the national level. I would never take the risk of upsetting the team dynamic like you are suggesting.

Exactly we can’t hurt Danault’s feelings and we can’t put Domi in his appropriate position. Domi is not a centerman. He’s a LW that can excel in an offensive centerman role. He’ll never be a real centerman. But you just made my point for me, we can’t hurt Danault’s feelings. If we had McDavid and Crosby rookies they would still play behind Danault because CJ coaches with his feelings. He has no vision. He sucks as a coach.

 

[Scriptor]

Exactly we can’t hurt Danault’s feelings and we can’t put Domi in his appropriate position. Domi is not a centerman. He’s a LW that can excel in an offensive centerman role. He’ll never be a real centerman. But you just made my point for me, we can’t hurt Danault’s feelings. If we had McDavid and Crosby rookies they would still play behind Danault because CJ coaches with his feelings. He has no vision. He sucks as a coach.

Seriously!? WTF do you call playing C all season long, without constant partners and producing 72 points i the process?

A genuine top-6 C would be a good answer.

What are you railing about with your he is not a centerman? He's a LW that can excel in an offensive counterman role!? WTF!?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Danault PP TOI per game : 0:29
Kotkaniemi PP TOI per game : 1:56
Domi PP TOI per game : 2:34

Danault SH TOI per game : 2:30
Kotkaniemi SH TOI per game : 0:00
Domi SH TOI per game : 0:03

Lol no center can dream of producing in Montreal because of Danault stealing all the quality time on ice!

The logic is irrefutable.

You know what's even funnier ? Danault's PPP / ice time is a lot higher than anyone else on the team. I bet that pisses off some posters on here.

It's funny to watch people bend over backwards to bash Danault. I really hope Poehling and Kotkaniemi progress fast otherwise you'll have a bunch of really excitable posters crying nonsense on how Danault is standing in the way of their progress... eh it's already started in Kotkaniemi's 18 year old season.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Seriously!? WTF do you call playing C all season long, without constant partners and producing 72 points i the process?

A genuine top-6 C would be a good answer.

What are you railing about with your he is not a centerman? He's a LW that can excel in an offensive counterman role!? WTF!?

Calm down, don’t blow a gasket. He would have scored 72 from the wing, he’s just a great hockey player, that’s why he is able to thrive offensively at center. But defensively he’s not a centerman and he’s not a natural face off man. Poehling is a natural prototypical centerman. Kotkaniemi is a natural prototypical centerman. I know we have been starved for centers for so long that we forget what a real centerman plays like, and it’s not Domi. Max would be even better on the LW with a big fast skilled player centering him. Domi plays a Kucherov style. What are you so worried about? Domi will still be on the ice, we aren’t losing him, we’re putting him in his natural position. I’m sure Kucherov could play center too if needed. But Tampa has real centers, just like we do now. It’s real and it’s time to embrace it.

 

[Guns n Roses]

The logic is irrefutable.

You know what's even funnier ? Danault's PPP / ice time is a lot higher than anyone else on the team. I bet that pisses off some posters on here.

It's funny to watch people bend over backwards to bash Danault. I really hope Poehling and Kotkaniemi progress fast otherwise you'll have a bunch of really excitable posters crying nonsense on how Danault is standing in the way of their progress... eh it's already started in Kotkaniemi's 18 year old season.

So you like Danault in a #1 or #2 role? You don’t see that he kills a lot of offense? If he had better offensive skills he would be a 70+ point player, but he’s not and never will be. At least he’s a real centerman which Domi is not.

 

[Scriptor]

Calm down, don’t blow a gasket. He would have scored 72 from the wing, he’s just a great hockey player, that’s why he is able to thrive offensively at center. But defensively he’s not a centerman and he’s not a natural face off man. Poehling is a natural prototypical centerman. Kotkaniemi is a natural prototypical centerman. I know we have been starved for centers for so long that we forget what a real centerman plays like, and it’s not Domi. Max would be even better on the LW with a big fast skilled player centering him. Domi plays a Kucherov style. What are you so worried about? Domi will still be on the ice, we aren’t losing him, we’re putting him in his natural position. I’m sure Kucherov could play center too if needed. But Tampa has real centers, just like we do now. It’s real and it’s time to embrace it.

Personally, I think that Domi plays a solid all around game -- even defensively. He is at 44% in the F/O department, but improved as the season wore on. He's just turned 24 in March and is still progressing. He's definitely a top-6 C by all standards in this league. Plenty of other productive top-6 Cs in the NHL are also not so great at F/Os.

That said, Poehling, Kotkaniemi and Danault are natural Cs, for sure. Nobody knows for sure when and if they can produce at Domi's pace, however.

If Domi plays LW, I hope it is on a line with Kotkaniemi who isn't the fastest skater. That would leave Domi as the forward that carries the puck int the O-zone and he would still be flying in as a Centerman on the offensive rush. Passing the puck to KK, once we are established in the zone would just allow the Finn to distribute the puck.

I go with a line of Domi -- KK - Suzuki if Domi is back on the wing. Three players that can surely score more than 20 goals (more than 30 for Suzuki, IMO) and can all set up the others.

Drouin on a line with Poehling could be interesting. Maybe a line of Drouin - Poehling - Shaw as an exploitation third line.

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher (Steady two-way line that can produce offensively)
Domi - KK - Suzuki (Passers and scorers galore - keep them guessing line)
Drouin - Poehling - Shaw (Size and/or drive to help Drouin find space on the ice from which to excel)
Lehkonen - Weal - Byron (Defensive line with speed and offensive upside for complementary scoring)
Armia

 

[Scriptor]

So you like Danault in a #1 or #2 role? You don’t see that he kills a lot of offense? If he had better offensive skills he would be a 70+ point player, but he’s not and never will be. At least he’s a real centerman which Domi is not.

I have no problem with Danault as a top-6 C as long as his line (with Tatar and Gallagher) can shut down opponents and score more than they do, which they have done for a large part of the season this year. A net positive line with those three can play anywhere in the lineup. Eating big minutes for them will only insulate the other two Cs (KK and Poehling, if we go with your wish list of returning dome to the wing) from the opponents' best players and increase their productivity in turn.

You can argue Danault not being a top-6 C all you want, but if Tatar and Gallagher can get close to 60 Gs between them while keeping opponents off the score sheet when they play with Danault, who cares? lesser opposition for a Domi - KK - Suzuki line and a Drouin - Poehling - Shaw line will only lead to more scoring as the young guns gain experience and confidence. Win-win-win scenario, as much as it might upset you.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Personally, I think that Domi plays a solid all around game -- even defensively. He is at 44% in the F/O department, but improved as the season wore on. He's just turned 24 in March and is still progressing. He's definitely a top-6 C by all standards in this league. Plenty of other productive top-6 Cs in the NHL are also not so great at F/Os.

That said, Poehling, Kotkaniemi and Danault are natural Cs, for sure. Nobody knows for sure when and if they can produce at Domi's pace, however.

If Domi plays LW, I hope it is on a line with Kotkaniemi who isn't the fastest skater. That would leave Domi as the forward that carries the puck int the O-zone and he would still be flying in as a Centerman on the offensive rush. Passing the puck to KK, once we are established in the zone would just allow the Finn to distribute the puck.

I go with a line of Domi -- KK - Suzuki if Domi is back on the wing. Three players that can surely score more than 20 goals (more than 30 for Suzuki, IMO) and can all set up the others.

Drouin on a line with Poehling could be interesting. Maybe a line of Drouin - Poehling - Shaw as an exploitation third line.

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher (Steady two-way line that can produce offensively)
Domi - KK - Suzuki (Passers and scorers galore - keep them guessing line)
Drouin - Poehling - Shaw (Size and/or drive to help Drouin find space on the ice from which to excel)
Lehkonen - Weal - Byron (Defensive line with speed and offensive upside for complementary scoring)
Armia

I like some of your ideas here. I don’t believe Drouin will be on the team come training camp.

 

[Guns n Roses]

I have no problem with Danault as a top-6 C as long as his line (with Tatar and Gallagher) can shut down opponents and score more than they do, which they have done for a large part of the season this year. A net positive line with those three can play anywhere in the lineup. Eating big minutes for them will only insulate the other two Cs (KK and Poehling, if we go with your wish list of returning dome to the wing) from the opponents' best players and increase their productivity in turn.

You can argue Danault not being a top-6 C all you want, but if Tatar and Gallagher can get close to 60 Gs between them while keeping opponents off the score sheet when they play with Danault, who cares? lesser opposition for a Domi - KK - Suzuki line and a Drouin - Poehling - Shaw line will only lead to more scoring as the young guns gain experience and confidence. Win-win-win scenario, as much as it might upset you.

It’s fine that Danault averages out well 5 on 5, but he doesn’t have the skill to push you over the top, and he doesn’t produce offense when you need it most. He’s the best regular season #3C in the league. Eller is the best and most clutch playoff #3C in the league.

 

[SOLR]

I’m sure Kucherov could play center too if needed. But Tampa has real centers, just like we do now. It’s real and it’s time to embrace it.

He did before they found Point.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I did watch every game this year, or most of them. I even mentionned anytime Danault turned over the puck in the offensive zone for a good 10 games this year, the numbers weren't pretty at all.

Is that so? His numbers look pretty good, as did his play on the ice... at least 72 games then?

I'll give you the 10 offensive zone turnovers.

basic, very basic : 1st line numbers, 1st line player.

I don't know what's the problem with this, you are the one showing he got 1st line numbers.

I don't know if you're trying to generate an argument but what you're saying doesn't make sense. Just because someone sees shaw as more than a useless, expendable 4th line grinder doesn't mean they agree that he's a first line player. The numbers support the idea he's a useful player, as does his play on the ice.