Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 18

[26Mats]

I think it does not make a lot of sense to put Gallagher and Anderson on the same line, I don't see the synergies there. I think Byron is with Anderson because they are similar in a sense that they are players rushing but not really able to play the possession game, and KK is clearly the odd man out on this line.

Kk can't be the play driver, but rather needs to play with a playdriver...

Forget about Evan's for a second. He suffered a severe concussion and wasn't even a game time decision for game 2.

What do you do to fix the lack of offense, and o-zone play if the KK and Danault lines? Imo at least KK and Gallagher can play a possession game together. That Anderson can't is a big problem. I'm ready to move him and that contract. But might as well see if he can do something with Gallagher since he's here.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

IMO Byron - Kotkaniemi - Anderson are playing together because defensively it works. Byron and Anderson's speed and (especially Byron's) experience help Kotkaniemi defensively.

If Evans is ready to go and coach wants him back in the lineup, and if he thinks that a Byron - Evans - Anderson line could be as responsible defensively and Evans would help the unit offensively, I could see coach swapping out Kotkaniemi for Evans. That's a lot of ifs, but it's definitely within the realm of possibility.

 

[26Mats]

IMO Byron - Kotkaniemi - Anderson are playing together because defensively it works. Byron and Anderson's speed and (especially Byron's) experience help Kotkaniemi defensively.

If Evans is ready to go and coach wants him back in the lineup, and if he thinks that a Byron - Evans - Anderson line could be as responsible defensively and Evans would help the unit offensively, I could see coach swapping out Kotkaniemi for Evans. That's a lot of ifs, but it's definitely within the realm of possibility.

I'd still swap out Byron or Andy first.

But Evan's may not be ready for a while, so I'd first make the adjustment of swapping Gallagher and Byron. The two lines each is presently on aren't giving enough offensively. It's one of the reasons we're on our heels for too much of the game.

 

[Miller Time]

IMO Byron - Kotkaniemi - Anderson are playing together because defensively it works. Byron and Anderson's speed and (especially Byron's) experience help Kotkaniemi defensively.

If Evans is ready to go and coach wants him back in the lineup, and if he thinks that a Byron - Evans - Anderson line could be as responsible defensively and Evans would help the unit offensively, I could see coach swapping out Kotkaniemi for Evans. That's a lot of ifs, but it's definitely within the realm of possibility.

That would have to be a pretty massive realm DD would be living in

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I'd still swap out Byron or Andy first.

But Evan's may not be ready for a while, so I'd first make the adjustment of swapping Gallagher and Byron. The two lines each is presently on aren't giving enough offensively. It's one of the reasons we're on our heels for too much of the game.

If they are not swapping out Kotkaniemi for Evans, I would stick with the status quo, which I expect is what they will do given that I'm not sure when Evans will be back and that I definitely don't want Evans hurt again and be down to 3 centers in a game.

Honestly, the Kotkaniemi line has been doing ok - their main responsibility is defense.

 

[DAChampion]

I've watched KK score some huge goals this playoffs, lay the body on a regular basis, I've seen multiple ex nhl players that are current analysts pick him out to praise on T.V. he is one of our leading goal scorers in the playoffs and assisted on the game winner last night. ........ and he's fcking 20 years old. So I check this thread...... and people want him taken out of the lineup and even TRADED?

A lot of posters are emotionally invested into dismissing Kotkaniemi, because that validates their endless critiques of Timmins. They want him to fail, and every time Kotkaniemi has a one-game or God forbid a two-game pointless stream they flood into this thread ranting about Quinn Hughes, Bambi, Brady Tkachuk, the 2008-2014 drafts, Lars Eller, Kotkaniemi likely never winning the Art Ross, etc.

It leads to this thread being the most unhealthy on the forum in several years. Absolutely bonkers.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Kk can't be the play driver, but rather needs to play with a playdriver...

Forget about Evan's for a second. He suffered a severe concussion and wasn't even a game time decision for game 2.

What do you do to fix the lack of offense, and o-zone play if the KK and Danault lines? Imo at least KK and Gallagher can play a possession game together. That Anderson can't is a big problem. I'm ready to move him and that contract. But might as well see if he can do something with Gallagher since he's here.

I think if we talk about the playoffs, you keep the Danault line as a pure shutdown line and you keep the KK line as it is as long as Toffoli Caufield Suzuki scores. You won't get much offense from this third line but you can hope that some of those Anderson and Byron rushes will end up in goals.

If we talk about next season, I really think you can reproduce what the 4th line is doing right now with KK instead of Staal.

 

[Habs178]

I've watched KK score some huge goals this playoffs, lay the body on a regular basis, I've seen multiple ex nhl players that are current analysts pick him out to praise on T.V. he is one of our leading goal scorers in the playoffs and assisted on the game winner last night. ........ and he's fcking 20 years old. So I check this thread...... and people want him taken out of the lineup and even TRADED?

It's ridiculous.

 

[tellermine]

His skating always was his weak spot, when you take muscle, it impacts your way of skating, so it made the issue even worse. He must find his optimal body weight and then work on his skating only, then he'll find balance and he'll be able to play as best as he can.

If he can develop his skating skill and strenght he can surely be stronger and faster.
Its not that black and white as you say.

 

[26Mats]

I think if we talk about the playoffs, you keep the Danault line as a pure shutdown line and you keep the KK line as it is as long as Toffoli Caufield Suzuki scores. You won't get much offense from this third line but you can hope that some of those Anderson and Byron rushes will end up in goals.

If we talk about next season, I really think you can reproduce what the 4th line is doing right now with KK instead of Staal.

I'd make Byron-Danault-Lehkonen the pure shutdown line and see if Gallagher-KK-Anderson can't do something offensively.

It's great that Anderson brings size while not only not making us slower but actually making us faster. But his deficiencies as an overall hockey player really hinder whatever line he's on.

 

[Schwang]

It's ridiculous.

He was better last night, but I just don't see a lot of chemistry or good flow on his line. I don't think those guys gel very well. Anderson doesn't use his team mates and KK isn't a playmaker.

 

[azcanuck]

KK actually had the puck a few times last night but mostly slipping and sliding out there. I'd get Evans in his spot ASAP. At least Evans with his speed can keep up.

 

[blarneylad]

A lot of posters are emotionally invested into dismissing Kotkaniemi, because that validates their endless critiques of Timmins. They want him to fail, and every time Kotkaniemi has a one-game or God forbid a two-game pointless stream they flood into this thread ranting about Quinn Hughes, Bambi, Brady Tkachuk, the 2008-2014 drafts, Lars Eller, Kotkaniemi likely never winning the Art Ross, etc.

It leads to this thread being the most unhealthy on the forum in several years. Absolutely bonkers.

What Habs need to do is bench him for Evans apparently..

 

[tazsub3]

Of KK's 11 mins of 5v5 time, 5 mins were against that line. Looks like Vegas tried to exploit the 3rd line but it didn't work - KK had 70% xGF and more HDCF (per natural stat trick).

For comparison, Stone played 6min against Danault, 3min against Staal and 2min against Suzuki

The only players KK struggled against (stats-wise) was Vegas' 4th line (less than 1 min of ice-time) and against Pietrangelo/Martinez

Thanks for stats, it confirms what i felt watching but had nothing to back it up with

 

[salbutera]

KK actually had the puck a few times last night but mostly slipping and sliding out there. I'd get Evans in his spot ASAP. At least Evans with his speed can keep up.

Don’t think we were watching the same game, KK & his line played a very good defensive & physical game - which is his lines role by the coach...oh yeah there’s no GWG for Byron without his quick chip out of DZone

Maybe still traumatized by wanting to start Allen instead of Price for playoffs based on 3-years of stats?

 

[Captain97]

20 year old centre tied for 3rd on the team in goals this playoffs, take him out of the lineup? Trade him? He including last round he was the youngest player playing centre in the playoffs (Newhook was playing wing) and is 3rd on our team in goals this run. How much more do you want?

 

[Saxon]

20 year old centre tied for 3rd on the team in goals this playoffs, take him out of the lineup? Trade him? He including last round he was the youngest player playing centre in the playoffs (Newhook was playing wing) and is 3rd on our team in goals this run. How much more do you want?

And they'll call you irrational.....

 

[Saxon]

Don’t think we were watching the same game, KK & his line played a very good defensive & physical game - which is his lines role by the coach...oh yeah there’s no GWG for Byron without his quick chip out of DZone

Maybe still traumatized by wanting to start Allen instead of Price for playoffs based on 3-years of stats?

Yup, that's what the coach has asked them to do. Fast and heavy fore check, tenderize the D over the series and if you can create some offense off of the rush, great!

 

[lamp9post]

It's pretty obvious that their guys are Suzuki and Danault, KK doesn't have much of a path going forward.

A team needs 4 centers, not 2, and ideally a strong center depth. Why can't KK fit?

So don't be surprised when it happen.

Why not? Assuming they can get what they want for him.

There is really no point hanging on to a guy your not willing to commit on.

Aside from his ~10 games in the AHL last year, he's been our #3 center for three years and still only 20 years old. What is your definition of 'committing' to a player? If Danault gets more TOI does that mean we didn't 'commit' to this player?

 

[tazsub3]

Don’t think we were watching the same game, KK & his line played a very good defensive & physical game - which is his lines role by the coach...oh yeah there’s no GWG for Byron without his quick chip out of DZone

Maybe still traumatized by wanting to start Allen instead of Price for playoffs based on 3-years of stats?

I think so many watch what they believe instead of actually watching the game. And assume if a player was bad in one game then he always bad lol

 

[Saxon]

Aside from his ~10 games in the AHL last year, he's been our #3 center for three years and still only 20 years old. What is your definition of 'committing' to a player? If Danault gets more TOI does that mean we didn't 'commit' to this player?

Maybe..... just maybe the team has a plan for KK.... They decided to develop him in the NHL. Therefore they give him sheltered minutes and when he plays well he gets to play a top six role for a bit. Then when he does well they still put him back down to a bottom six role so that they aren't forced to demote him due to negative reasons thus maintaining his confidence. All the time communicating with KK so he understands. Players like Suzuki and Caufield were developed in juniors/NCAA so their not developing in the NHL and that's one of the reasons Nick appears to have a longer leash. The problem is, both the KK "haters" and KK "fanboys" are equally impatient.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Maybe..... just maybe the team has a plan for KK.... They decided to develop him in the NHL. Therefore they give him sheltered minutes and when he plays well he gets to play a top six role for a bit. Then when he does well they still put him back down to a bottom six role so that they aren't forced to demote him due to negative reasons thus maintaining his confidence. All the time communicating with KK so he understands. Players like Suzuki and Caufield were developed in juniors/NCAA so their not developing in the NHL and that's one of the reasons Nick appears to have a longer leash. The problem is, both the KK "haters" and KK "fanboys" are equally impatient.

Spot on.
I’ve written the bold part here before.

 

[tooji]

I'd still swap out Byron or Andy first.

But Evan's may not be ready for a while, so I'd first make the adjustment of swapping Gallagher and Byron. The two lines each is presently on aren't giving enough offensively. It's one of the reasons we're on our heels for too much of the game.

I would much prefer play Kk with evans than swap him out. Having 2 centers on the same line is extremely clutch, as we witnessed last night

 

[canucklover123]

IMO Byron - Kotkaniemi - Anderson are playing together because defensively it works. Byron and Anderson's speed and (especially Byron's) experience help Kotkaniemi defensively.

If Evans is ready to go and coach wants him back in the lineup, and if he thinks that a Byron - Evans - Anderson line could be as responsible defensively and Evans would help the unit offensively, I could see coach swapping out Kotkaniemi for Evans. That's a lot of ifs, but it's definitely within the realm of possibility.

that line has been our worst line defensively though.

If we’re talking just KK and Evans (even though Anderson is the worst defensive liability on that line) putting in Evans for KK will make the line better defensively

but kk also has 4 ES goals which is important for a team that doesn’t score much.

so basically it’s a pick your poison thing

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

that line has been our worst line defensively though.

If we’re talking just KK and Evans (even though Anderson is the worst defensive liability on that line) putting in Evans for KK will make the line better defensively

but kk also has 4 ES goals which is important for a team that doesn’t score much.

so basically it’s a pick your poison thing

But all our lines have been pretty good defensively, which is sort of the point I think.