Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 16

[Habs]

When excuses are being made that’s when you know the panic is setting in.

exactly. 'we didn't draft him to be a #2 Center anyways, he's awesome on the backcheck. '

A third overall pick and we are trying to find joy in anything that makes it sting a wasting such a high draft position. He should be close to Suzuki in points the way he played in the playoffs last year, but he has regressed.

'He's still young!'. - Oh just stuff it, enough excuses. Start putting up points or piss off to Laval next year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ahem... sport psychologist here... I can tell you that small things on a mental level can often create a big leap for a player. It's often not gradual and linear.

Take Gally for exemple. At first, his mindset was "crash the net" and "shoot when you have a chance". Before his first 30-goal season, he changed his mindset to "go to the net to score" and "shoot to score ". I can tell you that just that little mental shift made a huge difference for him. This was even documented back then.

Yes, I agree.

Can you comment on Kotkaniemis handling for us?

 

[Mrb1p]

exactly. 'we didn't draft him to be a #2 Center anyways, he's awesome on the backcheck. '

A third overall pick and we are trying to find joy in anything that makes it sting a wasting such a high draft position. He should be close to Suzuki in points the way he played in the playoffs last year, but he has regressed.

'He's still young!'. - Oh just stuff it, enough excuses. Start putting up points or piss off to Laval next year.

Literally all the players picked after him are role players

 

[Miller Time]

exactly. 'we didn't draft him to be a #2 Center anyways, he's awesome on the backcheck. '

A third overall pick and we are trying to find joy in anything that makes it sting a wasting such a high draft position. He should be close to Suzuki in points the way he played in the playoffs last year, but he has regressed.

'He's still young!'. - Oh just stuff it, enough excuses. Start putting up points or piss off to Laval next year.

and yet...
Suzuki P/60 = 1.69
JKO = 1.53

not all that far off, and that's ignoring the linemate context (in which Suzuki has had significantly better linemate consistency and quality).

and last year, Suzuki was at 1.44, less productive than JKO at the same age... oh, and JKO's "regression"? not so much, a year ago he was at .91p/60.

Will be interesting to see what JKO's at next year. Will he make further improvement and match Suzuki's level this year? I'd say it's quite likely, even moreso if he's given a regular top-6 role like Suzuki got this year.


some of you really need to check your emotional outbursts against some very simple and available data, would help avoid these completely baseless takes.

 

[canucklover123]

and yet...
Suzuki P/60 = 1.69
JKO = 1.53

not all that far off, and that's ignoring the linemate context (in which Suzuki has had significantly better linemate consistency and quality).

and last year, Suzuki was at 1.44, less productive than JKO at the same age... oh, and JKO's "regression"? not so much, a year ago he was at .91p/60.

Will be interesting to see what JKO's at next year. Will he make further improvement and match Suzuki's level this year? I'd say it's quite likely, even moreso if he's given a regular top-6 role like Suzuki got this year.


some of you really need to check your emotional outbursts against some very simple and available data, would help avoid these completely baseless takes.

I’m sure you’ll check to confirm but I would wager that NZ has considerably harder minutes and matchups than KK. Would
Be interested in that as well, considering you’re using p/60 where the kind of minutes you get matter

 

[Habby4Life]

Literally all the players picked after him are role players

Hughes & Tkachuk, role players, haha. Your boy sucks so bad you've resorted to non-sense.

Role players who are leaps and bounds ahead of Bambi. I guess that would mean KK is AHL fodder.

 

[26Mats]

exactly. 'we didn't draft him to be a #2 Center anyways, he's awesome on the backcheck. '

A third overall pick and we are trying to find joy in anything that makes it sting a wasting such a high draft position. He should be close to Suzuki in points the way he played in the playoffs last year, but he has regressed.

'He's still young!'. - Oh just stuff it, enough excuses. Start putting up points or piss off to Laval next year.

He is young. You have to be patient with young players.

Management decided to use the 3rd overall to address a need, an egregiously glaring need, and not go after the best player available. Hopefully KK becomes the best C he can be. Bobby Smoth was a big part of our '86 cup win, even though he wasn't a superstar.

 

[salbutera]

He is young. You have to be patient with young players.

Management decided to use the 3rd overall to address a need, an egregiously glaring need, and not go after the best player available. Hopefully KK becomes the best C he can be. Bobby Smoth was a big part of our '86 cup win, even though he wasn't a superstar.

And 89 Cup finals

 

[KevSkillz4]

If you don't watch KK tonight... he play very well. Like a 3rd overall pick.

 

[Habs]

If you don't watch KK tonight... he play very well. Like a 3rd overall pick.

I saw him cough it up in the offensive zones a couple times already.

 

[26Mats]

And 89 Cup finals

Yes! I was thinking of when else I remembered him having an impact. He wasn't on the 93 team, but was good in 89.

 

[Habs]

and yet...
Suzuki P/60 = 1.69
JKO = 1.53

not all that far off, and that's ignoring the linemate context (in which Suzuki has had significantly better linemate consistency and quality).

and last year, Suzuki was at 1.44, less productive than JKO at the same age... oh, and JKO's "regression"? not so much, a year ago he was at .91p/60.

Will be interesting to see what JKO's at next year. Will he make further improvement and match Suzuki's level this year? I'd say it's quite likely, even moreso if he's given a regular top-6 role like Suzuki got this year.


some of you really need to check your emotional outbursts against some very simple and available data, would help avoid these completely baseless takes.

Suzuki has always had 2x the offensive vision and potential over Kotkaniemi, at every level.

 

[Doc5]

I saw him cough it up in the offensive zones a couple times already.

Growing pains my friend

 

[Doc5]

Suzuki has always had 2x the offensive vision and potential over Kotkaniemi, at every level.

What do you mean? The only level they have in common is the NHL. How can you make a blanket statement like that?

 

[Miller Time]

What do you mean? The only level they have in common is the NHL. How can you make a blanket statement like that?

because it's an emotional take based on nothing more than that...

 

[sandviper]

Hughes & Tkachuk, role players, haha. Your boy sucks so bad you've resorted to non-sense.

Role players who are leaps and bounds ahead of Bambi. I guess that would mean KK is AHL fodder.

You know, sometimes you wonder how our “fans” can be worse than other fans. I get people not liking Kotkaniemi, but these posts are getting really personal.

 

[Miller Time]

I’m sure you’ll check to confirm but I would wager that NZ has considerably harder minutes and matchups than KK. Would
Be interested in that as well, considering you’re using p/60 where the kind of minutes you get matter

yes, it would be interesting... though i doubt it does anything to change the reality that the difference in offensive productivity at the same age is not very pronounced.

 

[flying v 604]

and yet...
Suzuki P/60 = 1.69
JKO = 1.53

not all that far off, and that's ignoring the linemate context (in which Suzuki has had significantly better linemate consistency and quality).

and last year, Suzuki was at 1.44, less productive than JKO at the same age... oh, and JKO's "regression"? not so much, a year ago he was at .91p/60.

Will be interesting to see what JKO's at next year. Will he make further improvement and match Suzuki's level this year? I'd say it's quite likely, even moreso if he's given a regular top-6 role like Suzuki got this year.


some of you really need to check your emotional outbursts against some very simple and available data, would help avoid these completely baseless takes.

As someone who's a casual Habs fan I see a lot of excuses for this kid.
If I compare him to our top 2 centres on my team my take without emotion is, Petey our #1 centre who had similar question marks pre-draft but has obviously shown he is a legit franchise centre. Horvat had a slower path and had issues skating but he managed to improve every single season. KK has regressed and and that is not what you want from a 3rd overall pick.
I'm not even saying he needs to dominate but by now he should at least have stretches where he puts up actual points in the manner a 1 or 2 centre would.

 

[canucklover123]

yes, it would be interesting... though i doubt it does anything to change the reality that the difference in offensive productivity at the same age is not very pronounced.

that’s not true, if you’re using p/60, linemates, zone opportunity and opponent Strength in minutes mean everything.

 

[Miller Time]

that’s not true, if you’re using p/60, linemates, zone opportunity and opponent Strength in minutes mean everything.

Yes, what I meant is that if we look at those factors (one of which we know favors Suzuki -linemates-) the claim that JKO relative productivity is far worse than Suzuki will remain unsubstantiated. Even less so if we compare them at same age (ie Suzuki last year to JKO this year).

 

[Miller Time]

As someone who's a casual Habs fan I see a lot of excuses for this kid.
If I compare him to our top 2 centres on my team my take without emotion is, Petey our #1 centre who had similar question marks pre-draft but has obviously shown he is a legit franchise centre. Horvat had a slower path and had issues skating but he managed to improve every single season. KK has regressed and and that is not what you want from a 3rd overall pick.
I'm not even saying he needs to dominate but by now he should at least have stretches where he puts up actual points in the manner a 1 or 2 centre would.

The "regressed" narrative doesn't hold up to any legitimate scrutiny. The only "regression" is this year's ppg vs his rookie season, by .03 currently, which would be an absurd single data point to base that kind of claim on.

 

[Paddy17]

Yes, I agree.

Can you comment on Kotkaniemis handling for us?

I don't think it's been perfect, but I definately don't think he's being ruined. He's progressing nicely, beyond the points. It's easy to look at points and be negative about his progression on his 3rd season. But I think his game has matured and his mental approach has been getting better. Could he have been better off in Liiga and AHL over the last 2 years? Tough to say. With a young player, you want to see progression, and I do see that this year. He needs to find the right mental approach to get results now.

 

[Habs]

Another stinker by The Franchise.

 

[the paisanos guy]

As someone who's a casual Habs fan I see a lot of excuses for this kid.
If I compare him to our top 2 centres on my team my take without emotion is, Petey our #1 centre who had similar question marks pre-draft but has obviously shown he is a legit franchise centre. Horvat had a slower path and had issues skating but he managed to improve every single season. KK has regressed and and that is not what you want from a 3rd overall pick.
I'm not even saying he needs to dominate but by now he should at least have stretches where he puts up actual points in the manner a 1 or 2 centre would.

KK has not regressed from last season, he's improved. He wasn't playing like an NHL-calibre player last year (until the playoffs). You need to watch more before making claims like that

 

[Gravity]

KK seems to be in the doghouse. No ice in 3 on 3.