Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 14)

[DAChampion]

Players ARE not ALWAYS paid on expectations,it's not carved in stone,bridge deals and arbitration still occurs. Speculating on a players development and future contributions are not always clear and evident. It's up to the Gm's to ice the team within constraints of cap available. TO screwed things up IMAO.

Contracts are signed prior to any performance taking place.

 

[angusyoung]

Contracts are signed prior to any performance taking place.

ELC's are based on amateur performance are they not? beyond that when becoming RFA's, a bridge is still possible, unless things have changed.

 

[DAChampion]

ELC's are based on amateur performance are they not? beyond that when becoming RFA's, a bridge is still possible, unless things have changed.

ELC are an exception as those salaries are very much fixed.

 

[RandR]

The debate was FOR NUMBER 3. And nobody believes that they'd stop following the Habs if the Habs would draft Tkachuk. And even if possible, they'd be right back this year. The great McCagg, who kept saying that JK had to be the player, was saying, 5 months prior to the draft, that Zadina was a future 40-goal scorer. People aren't dumb enough to just compare stats and don't take into account the league they play in. What played against Tkachuk was the number of goals he scored. That despite his IQ, he wasn't driving the play that much. That he seemed undisciplined, not the best in the defensive zone and some steps needed in his skating. Was surely still a top 10 pick, yet was probably not, at least in my limited view, not the pick to go with. Yet....Timmins didn't ask for my vote. He could have drafted him. I would have not liked it. And people could have said that again, I was wrong, and Timmins was right. Win-win.

As far as drafting for needs, again, stupid. We NEEDED a C, yet, we don't need him at C 2 years later. We would always go BPA, you would have turn out with a C at one point. You would have gotten Giroux instead of Fischer. You could have gotten Kuznetsov instead of Tinordi. Somehow, the same scout who thought JK had to be top 3 because mostly of his U-18, didn't watch Kuznetsov at the U-18? Go BPA, you will eventually add players on every position. If you can't....you trade the position you have too much for a need you have.

Good post. Although I don't remember if I bothered to post about Tkachuk in advance of the draft, I was one of those who wanted basically anybody but him. For me it was simply because I just can't stand the "dickish" kind of player his father was and his brother was already proving to be (Kesler is another one who comes to mind), and I didn't want to have to begrudgingly cheer for him in a Habs uniform for the next 10 years.

I remember Bob McKenzie's final rankings before the draft. He had Tkaczuk at 3 and Kotkaniemi at 5. The big difference between them was that, unlike KK, only 1 of the 10 scouts whom he got rankings from had Tkaczuk below 5. So Tkaczuk was seen as less of a gamble, but some scouts also thought he had a lower upside.

I believe that the Habs picked KK because they thought he was close enough to whom ever else they were considering. And during last year it looked like both Tkazcuk and KK would end up being good picks and so it was a win for both teams. However, it is also possible that the Habs brass wanted a centre so badly that they just convinced themselves that he was close enough to Tkaczuk (or whomever) to justify picking him.

It's not an excuse, but I gotta say that the Habs were unlucky in that in the 2 recent years they got to pick 3rd. The Galchenyuk draft ended up to be a weak one at the very top and the KK draft had an unusually low number of C's (only one) ranked in the top 10.

 

[sandviper]

Very generous,no way in hell do either deserve,nor did they that type of deal. Enough with giving RFA's the keys to the city,bridge until proven.

Just saying, with the crazy RFA contracts being given out, Domi coming off a career year as well as being a BFF with Money Man Marner, I was expecting the worse.

 

[DAChampion]

Just saying, with the crazy RFA contracts being given out, Domi coming off a career year as well as being a BFF with Money Man Marner, I was expecting the worse.

If Domi wants 8 million/year then he can stay home.

 

[azcanuck]

I'd also like to see him play this year in Junior even after the world junior tournament.

Let him get back to dominating. We're fine with Suzuki as the 3c. Go out and get Chuky for the missing offense. Then when Drouin comes back we'll be as good as can be this year. Maybe KK is ready next year. But I'd even be fine with him playing another year in Junior or the AHL while his body matures and gets stronger.

If you're looking for offense why would you look for "chuky"?

 

[26Mats]

If you're looking for offense why would you look for "chuky"?

He was a consistent 20 goal, 50 point player with us.

Plus, I trust him over Weal on the right half wall on the pp, and I suspect Julien does too.

 

[Hins77]

To me, the selection at 3 was Brady Tkachuk. Between Zadina and KK. I let my confidence to montreal management. So if we were drafting 4, i couldnt conplain. Everybody who saw the WJC saw a Brady Tkachuk dominating the championship. He was playing with Poehling and he was very effective. Im wondering now if Poehling was the reason of success or it was. Tkachuk. Secondo. His dad was a former nhl player. His brother is a former nhl player in calgary and we knew it. I mean. Yeah the guy could bust, but in the same time. he maybe has the best genetics than a lot of player at this draft. third point, i talked with a amateur scout (denis fugere). He told me about him he will become a brendan gallagher on a bigger frame. (6´3). So that was my choice

 

[Hins77]

To me, the selection at 3 was Brady Tkachuk. Between Zadina and KK. I let my confidence to montreal management. So if we were drafting 4, i couldnt conplain. Everybody who saw the WJC saw a Brady Tkachuk dominating the championship. He was playing with Poehling and he was very effective. Im wondering now if Poehling was the reason of success or it was. Tkachuk. Secondo. His dad was a former nhl player. His brother is a former nhl player in calgary and we knew it. I mean. Yeah the guy could bust, but in the same time. he maybe has the best genetics than a lot of player at this draft. third point, i talked with a amateur scout (denis fugere). He told me about him he will become a brendan gallagher on a bigger frame. (6´3). So that was my choice. When montreal management selected KK. I saw a managment looking for an homerun and they lookes like not very sure about it. When i saw ottawa senators selected Tkachuk, they didnt understand why he fell.

 

[26Mats]

To me, the selection at 3 was Brady Tkachuk. Between Zadina and KK. I let my confidence to montreal management. So if we were drafting 4, i couldnt conplain. Everybody who saw the WJC saw a Brady Tkachuk dominating the championship. He was playing with Poehling and he was very effective. Im wondering now if Poehling was the reason of success or it was. Tkachuk. Secondo. His dad was a former nhl player. His brother is a former nhl player in calgary and we knew it. I mean. Yeah the guy could bust, but in the same time. he maybe has the best genetics than a lot of player at this draft. third point, i talked with a amateur scout (denis fugere). He told me about him he will become a brendan gallagher on a bigger frame. (6´3). So that was my choice

I still think KK has a lot of talent. I look forward to seeing him at the age of 25. But he's a raw talent in a lanky frame. He has "it will take time to develop" written all over him. Plus, Tkachuk may start a steep decline at the age of 30. Many big power forwards do. Look at Jamie Benn.

So let's be patient with KK. We don't even need him over the next few years as Domi-Suzuki-Danault-Poehling is looking like a good center line for the first 3 lines for years to come.

 

[angusyoung]

Just saying, with the crazy RFA contracts being given out, Domi coming off a career year as well as being a BFF with Money Man Marner, I was expecting the worse.

That's the problem with Montreal,the worst case scenario ends up being the best case scenario more often than not. On Molson......

 

[azcanuck]

He was a consistent 20 goal, 50 point player with us.

Plus, I trust him over Weal on the right half wall on the pp, and I suspect Julien does too.

Of course Alex > Weal. The problem is Alex costs so much more. He doesnt have Weal's low salary.
It's a cost analysis situation. Alex is not worth the high salary he commands. Two other teams are discovering that.

 

[26Mats]

Of course Alex > Weal. The problem is Alex costs so much more. He doesnt have Weal's low salary.
It's a cost analysis situation. Alex is not worth the high salary he commands. Two other teams are discovering that.

We have 6.5 million in cap space and Galchenyuk's contract is up at the end of the year...

 

[Fixxer]

He was a consistent 20 goal, 50 point player with us.

Plus, I trust him over Weal on the right half wall on the pp, and I suspect Julien does too.

Has he played for Julien before he was traded? I know Therrien had him since the rookie season.
edit : I remember, Drouin was the new center and Chucky a winger, which Bergevin had said as Julien was coach.

 

[Fixxer]

Of course Alex > Weal. The problem is Alex costs so much more. He doesnt have Weal's low salary.
It's a cost analysis situation. Alex is not worth the high salary he commands. Two other teams are discovering that.

Alex also costs more than Weal in terms of goals against...

 

[26Mats]

Has he played for Julien before he was traded? I know Therrien had him since the rookie season.
edit : I remember, Drouin was the new center and Chucky a winger, which Bergevin had said as Julien was coach.

Julien started Chucky on the 4th line... At the end of the year though, Chucky said he felt he had gained the coaches confidence by the end of the year and was looking forward to next year. I think Julien would continue to be good for his overall game.

 

[Mrb1p]

This thread is insanity

 

[Mrb1p]

To me, the selection at 3 was Brady Tkachuk. Between Zadina and KK. I let my confidence to montreal management. So if we were drafting 4, i couldnt conplain. Everybody who saw the WJC saw a Brady Tkachuk dominating the championship. He was playing with Poehling and he was very effective. Im wondering now if Poehling was the reason of success or it was. Tkachuk. Secondo. His dad was a former nhl player. His brother is a former nhl player in calgary and we knew it. I mean. Yeah the guy could bust, but in the same time. he maybe has the best genetics than a lot of player at this draft. third point, i talked with a amateur scout (denis fugere). He told me about him he will become a brendan gallagher on a bigger frame. (6´3). So that was my choice

1. get a true centerman. 2. Get a good LD dman. 3. Trade wingers. So. 1. Try to sign Tavares. 2. Teams like minny/islanders/panthers/carolina need retools so. Try to bring a guy like charlie coyle and jonas brodin for galchenyuk/lehkonen and two 2nd pick exemple. You have a big centerman/rw in coyle and brodin can play with weber. Draft zadina

You had other ideas on draft day, Hins.

 

[Hins77]

You had other ideas on draft day, Hins.

Nice research. But during these day i was a little undecided. Loll. One day i was unhappy because our ld sucked. I wanted to select quinn hugues if i remember. Loll. So take it with a salt. The only thing i could remember is i never talked about KK because i didnt know he was a top 10

 

[Fixxer]

Julien started Chucky on the 4th line... At the end of the year though, Chucky said he felt he had gained the coaches confidence by the end of the year and was looking forward to next year. I think Julien would continue to be good for his overall game.

If this keeps up though, he'll end up like Yakupov. Doing better with his first team, wandering with other teams that have no trust in him. Maybe a trip back home could help... I mean, Montreal.

 

[Gally11]

This thread is insanity

People go off the rails fast lol

 

[McGuires Corndog]

People go off the rails fast lol

His development is going off the rails fast too.

He’s extremely young, so time is still on his side, but the team needs to give him the confidence to grow and get better. I firmly believe a stint in the AHL is in the best interest of his career at this point. Pair him up with Hudon and let him put some points on the board and feel good about himself.

 

[417]

His development is going off the rails fast too.

He’s extremely young, so time is still on his side, but the team needs to give him the confidence to grow and get better. I firmly believe a stint in the AHL is in the best interest of his career at this point. Pair him up with Hudon and let him put some points on the board and feel good about himself.

You really think a 2 week stint in Laval is going to change the course of his career?

Whatever they're serving out in Laval, I need to get.

 

[BaseballCoach]

His development is going off the rails fast too.

He’s extremely young, so time is still on his side, but the team needs to give him the confidence to grow and get better. I firmly believe a stint in the AHL is in the best interest of his career at this point. Pair him up with Hudon and let him put some points on the board and feel good about himself.

Jesperi is a hockey player who was playing well and with confidence before the vicious attack.

You and a few others seem to be fans who need to feel better about something not sure what. But obviously you will feel better if you see him put up some points in a lesser league. Wouldn't you just be better off playing video games and getting satisfaction that way?