Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 13

[Mrb1p]

I don't pretend to be a genius mastermind able to fix hockey players with a quick look. It's actually hard sometimes to tell why a player can't become a star player. It can be multiple factors not adding up to the sum total of what is needed to be a star player. And it can be stuff that is not immediately visible such as consistency, desire to be the best, character issues, etc. Not saying that those are problematic with Kotkaniemi, just giving an example.

What I do know is that the longer it takes for a player to breakout.. the less likely it becomes for that player to become a star. Late bloomers exist but they're not common. Kotkaniemi was very very young in his first season. And perhaps not training properly in between the first and second season gave him some problems in his sophomore season. But I was really expecting to see more progress in his 3rd season. I'm not throwing the towel but ... it's worrying for sure.

Alright problem number two is you somehow don't see progress in his game ? Is this like a straight face answer ? He is head and shoulders better than he was in his prior seasons without the puck, thats not even up for debate. His skating also went from a negative to a positive.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Alright problem number two is you somehow don't see progress in his game ? Is this like a straight face answer ? He is head and shoulders better than he was in his prior seasons without the puck, thats not even up for debate. His skating also went from a negative to a positive.

I did not say that I saw no progress, I said I was expecting more progress.

 

[Runner77]

Don't know if this was already posted in this thread.

This pic was from about a week ago and it got Finns laughing.

When you translate what was written on KK's stick, it says: "Get mad already f***ing asshole."

It's not clear if KK himself wrote it or if one of his Finnish teammates did, either as a joke or as a form of motivation.

The line comes from a gym video that is legendary in Finland, where insults and obscenities are thrown at a weightlifter in order to get him to perform -- and he ends up being successful on his 340 kg lift. One YouTube user called it "Maximum muscle activation via bullying - The Finnish Method."

Whatever this was, it still hasn't worked for KK. Maybe Lehkonen and Armia need to scream that line at KK, while on the bench.

Just love these infusions of foreign cultural references that far too often, just go unnoticed but make for great anecdotes.

 

[Hins77]

Its nothing against kk himself, but its sad when sometimes, 3rd overall pick come in the league and they are already dominant. You would say. Yeah but every curve are different about each player. Agree, but if KK was going to be a supertsar. He would be already one imo

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Thank you for sharing this anecdote Runner77.

 

[Mrb1p]

Its nothing against kk himself, but its sad when sometimes, 3rd overall pick come in the league and they are already dominant. You would say. Yeah but every curve are different about each player. Agree, but if KK was going to be a supertsar. He would be already one imo

Its actually very rare that 3rd OA come in the league and are dominant. The last one was Toews in 06, other than that Huberdeau and Galchenyuk have the best PPG since Toews as rookie 3rd OAs. I guess Heiskanen too was dominant but he's a defender and he ain't dominating anything as of today.

Statistically, 3OA is the worst pick in the top 5.

 

[BushFireRecordsRedux]

Its actually very rare that 3rd OA come in the league and are dominant. The last one was Toews in 06, other than that Huberdeau and Galchenyuk have the best PPG since Toews as rookie 3rd OAs. I guess Heiskanen too was dominant but he's a defender and he ain't dominating anything as of today.

Statistically, 3OA is the worst pick in the top 5.

Nah, since Toews Duchene had the most productive rookie year by a number 3 pick but by year 3 a few of them had already broken out. It's go time for Jesperi, which definitely includes giving him more ice time to see what he's really made of right now

 

[Mrb1p]

Nah, since Toews Duchene had the most productive rookie year by a number 3 pick but by year 3 a few of them had already broken out. It's go time for Jesperi, which definitely includes giving him more ice time to see what he's really made of right now

Oh right, Duchene had .67 to .64 and and .56, still thats not what Id call dominating either way.

Still something to be said about ice-time.

17:44 for Duchene
16:56 for Huberdeau
12:19 for Galchenyuk

Kotkaniemi is #61 for PPG in first round pick rookie seasons since 09-10 and when you take a peek at his raw production to ice-time, he's one of the best.

Kevin Hayes (D+4) had 45 in 79 playing 13:02
Rob Thomas (D+2) had 33 in 70 playing 13:04
Joe Drouin (D+2) had 32 in 70 playing 13:14
Robby Fabbri (d+2) had 37 in 72 playing 13:19
Kuznetsov (D+4) had 37 in 80 playing 13:20

To see significant production, aside from Hayes, you have to go to 14:30 + Otherwise theres nothing.

Which brings me back to the ice-time thing... Sigh.


Coincidentally, Kotkaniemi has the 3rd most point for a 3rd OA rookie season behind Duchene and Dubois (Huberdeau and Galchenyuk wouldve probably outproduced but had shortened seasons.)

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

He gets limited minutes no matter how he plays.

We keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. It's stupid.

If he plays good consistently, he’ll get more minutes. This isn’t a conspiracy lol

 

[SOLR]

Oh right, Duchene had .67 to .64 and and .56, still thats not what Id call dominating either way.

Still something to be said about ice-time.

17:44 for Duchene
16:56 for Huberdeau
12:19 for Galchenyuk

Kotkaniemi is #61 for PPG in first round pick rookie seasons since 09-10 and when you take a peek at his raw production to ice-time, he's one of the best.

Kevin Hayes (D+4) had 45 in 79 playing 13:02
Rob Thomas (D+2) had 33 in 70 playing 13:04
Joe Drouin (D+2) had 32 in 70 playing 13:14
Robby Fabbri (d+2) had 37 in 72 playing 13:19
Kuznetsov (D+4) had 37 in 80 playing 13:20

To see significant production, aside from Hayes, you have to go to 14:30 + Otherwise theres nothing.

Which brings me back to the ice-time thing... Sigh.


Coincidentally, Kotkaniemi has the 3rd most point for a 3rd OA rookie season behind Duchene and Dubois (Huberdeau and Galchenyuk wouldve probably outproduced but had shortened seasons.)

Seems like we'll need to add Stutzle who should have been 2 OA.

 

[Redux91]

If he plays good consistently, he’ll get more minutes. This isn’t a conspiracy lol

Its not that its a conspiracy, but the golden boy Danault has 0 goals this year. and the agenda right now STILL seems to be "get danault a lot of ice time", and not "dont give kk a lot of ice time", ones ice time is clearly affected by the other, and the other again, has 0 GOALS
it doesnt feel like KK's "play" is the reason why the ice time is lower

not a conspiracy sure, but its not rocket science either, they are catering the 27 yr old quebecer over a 20 yr old kid who probably wont figure it all out until hes 22, which is completely normal i understand

but theres a chicken and egg thing going on here with KK's icetime right now : more ice time to play better/play better for more ice time? ...feels like it doesnt matter when they clearly want Danault to get 20 mins.

 

[HabsForHire]

Its nothing against kk himself, but its sad when sometimes, 3rd overall pick come in the league and they are already dominant. You would say. Yeah but every curve are different about each player. Agree, but if KK was going to be a supertsar. He would be already one imo

Already ? Nah hes a project and will take time and i just laugh reading bust bust bust in every GDT. Maybe some people in here dont deserve talent

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Its not that its a conspiracy, but the golden boy Danault has 0 goals this year. and the agenda right now STILL seems to be "get danault a lot of ice time", and not "dont give kk a lot of ice time", ones ice time is clearly affected by the other, and the other again, has 0 GOALS
it doesnt feel like KK's "play" is the reason why the ice time is lower

not a conspiracy sure, but its not rocket science either, they are catering the 27 yr old quebecer over a 20 yr old kid who probably wont figure it all out until hes 22, which is completely normal i understand

but theres a chicken and egg thing going on here with KK's icetime right now : more ice time to play better/play better for more ice time? ...feels like it doesnt matter when they clearly want Danault to get 20 mins.

At combined ES and on the PP, Danault plays 14:04 while Kotkaniemi plays 13:54. The main difference is Danault plays 2:29/game on the PK.

Danault has played 2:30 less a game last year compared to this one which is significantly less. The biggest issue is the team is taking so many penalties, if they played more disciplined then Danault's minutes would go down due to less PK time and in addition there would be more ES time for KK.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

At combined ES and on the PP, Danault plays 14:04 while Kotkaniemi plays 13:54. The main difference is Danault plays 2:29/game on the PK.

Danault has played 2:30 less a game last year compared to this one which is significantly less. The biggest issue is the team is taking so many penalties, if they played more disciplined then Danault's minutes would go down due to less PK time and in addition there would be more ES time for KK.

Nailed it. KK just needs to be better. Suzuki started playing well consistently, and guess what? More minutes for him! Why wouldn’t they do the same for KK? Yet in this conspiracy multiple coaches would have to be in on it. Not to mention the franchise invested a 3rd overall in KK...

 

[Sagikev]

When you can't figure out what a player is missing to become something maybe you should try and find that something, if you can't maybe he's not actually missing anything.

I don't think he's missing something in his toolbox, because he has it all to some degree. He does need confidence (as most players, especially rookies/younger ones, need) and he needs consistency. Sometimes he plays with good pace, but there are other times he lacks pace, he still needs that 0.5 second more that you do not have in the NHL. IMO he'll be fine, it'll come sooner than later, he's playing well despite not having the best production. Habs will get through this slump and I think KK will help in that regard.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

He needs to find his identity as an offensive player. He needs to figure out how to best succeed in the NHL.

the problem right now is he’s using the long stick but just doesn’t have the strength to shield the puck away from defenders. He either needs to get dominant strength, or he needs to use a shorter stick and change his approach.

 

[Mrb1p]

Nailed it. KK just needs to be better. Suzuki started playing well consistently, and guess what? More minutes for him! Why wouldn’t they do the same for KK? Yet in this conspiracy multiple coaches would have to be in on it. Not to mention the franchise invested a 3rd overall in KK...

Lets see you move the goalpost on that one.

AND ANYONE CLAIMING THAT SUZUKI BULLSHIT SHOULD READ THIS BECAUSE IM f***ING SICK OF YALL

Kotkaniemis and Suzukis first 20 games.

Suzuki got 16:49 after his 20th game and only played under 14:59 4 times since then.

Position	Games	Goal	Assist	Points	..+ -..	PIM	P/GP	EVG	EVP	PPG	PPP	shg	shp	otg	gwg	Shots	SH%	TOI	FO
C	20	5	4	9	3	4	0.45	4	7	1	2	0	0	0	0	27	18.5	13.58	44.2
C	20	2	7	9	7	6	0.45	2	7	0	2	0	0	0	0	33	6.1	13:54	45.2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

He needs to find his identity as an offensive player. He needs to figure out how to best succeed in the NHL.

the problem right now is he’s using the long stick but just doesn’t have the strength to shield the puck away from defenders. He either needs to get dominant strength, or he needs to use a shorter stick and change his approach.

Better wingers would definitely help here, as well...

 

[BehindTheTimes]

At combined ES and on the PP, Danault plays 14:04 while Kotkaniemi plays 13:54. The main difference is Danault plays 2:29/game on the PK.

Danault has played 2:30 less a game last year compared to this one which is significantly less. The biggest issue is the team is taking so many penalties, if they played more disciplined then Danault's minutes would go down due to less PK time and in addition there would be more ES time for KK.

Yeah except the new brain dead coach plays him 20 plus minutes.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Yeah except the new brain dead coach plays him 20 plus minutes.

Danault played 15 minutes last game which was 6th most amongst forwards, at ES he had the 7th most minutes and played less than Kotkaniemi and almost 6 less minutes than Suzuki.

 

[durojean]

I’d be curious to just switch him with Danault on the first.

Probably bad idea defensively but if the p’an was to pu him with 2 veteran. And it’s not like Gallagher and Tatar does not need a little spark

 

[HuGo Sham]

i repeat: still in top 10 youngest players in the league

 

[TesseractPrice]

Lets see you move the goalpost on that one.

AND ANYONE CLAIMING THAT SUZUKI BULLSHIT SHOULD READ THIS BECAUSE IM f***ING SICK OF YALL

Kotkaniemis and Suzukis first 20 games.

Suzuki got 16:49 after his 20th game and only played under 14:59 4 times since then.

Position	Games	Goal	Assist	Points	..+ -..	PIM	P/GP	EVG	EVP	PPG	PPP	shg	shp	otg	gwg	Shots	SH%	TOI	FO
C	20	5	4	9	3	4	0.45	4	7	1	2	0	0	0	0	27	18.5	13.58	44.2
C	20	2	7	9	7	6	0.45	2	7	0	2	0	0	0	0	33	6.1	13:54	45.2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You can also bring up possession stats where KK is an impressive beast

I think he'll produce at a 0.4-0.5 P/GP in his current use and role, which is great for a 3C but I just to see him get 10 games at least at 2nd center man

I guess this is too much to ask

 

[Saxon]

i repeat: still in top 10 youngest players in the league

Doesn't matter, if your not dominating by 20 your garbage.

 

[Mrb1p]

Doesn't matter, if your not dominating by 20 your garbage.

Except if youre Suzuki, for some reason.