Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 10

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

IMO KK should stay in Finland for this season, it wouldn't hurt his development. I prefer him getting on the scoreboard regularly and finding his confidence offensively in a decent league than struggling to make a pass in the NHL.

The AHL would be the optimal option, but he'd still feel the pressure of not making/making the team.

If you want to salvage the little that's left of his offensive game, it needs to go through a lower level first.

He does have good vision, but his body just doesn't follow his brain.

Oh I get it. You think you’ve been in the Danault thread this whole time.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I have to admit I laughed out loud reading this but damn!

It's a good scenario for KK, starting slowly then getting on the scoreboard. Much better than the opposite which would have been a headscratcher, or just no production at all which would have been worrying. It would have been great to see him compete in the World Juniors though, as I'm not expecting NHL hockey or even just camps to return soon. With a lot of cities under fire from COVID, I'd be surprised to see camps open leaguewide before January. But it's true, like Kriss E said never bet against Bettman.

He isn’t eligible for the World Juniors.

 

[JianYang]

Being an athletes makes no difference. He’s got long limbs and an awkward body. I compared him to my family members because they’re the same way.

There are players out there with an "awkward" body that do just fine. The best player in the series against the flyers was Kevin Hayes IMO, and he also has a lanky look to him.

KK likes to hang on to the puck, and make plays on his terms, so keeping his balance is going to be one of the key parts to his development, and the good news is that we have seen him take some strides in that regard during the play in, even if it's a small sample size.

 

[Mrb1p]

Being an athletes makes no difference. He’s got long limbs and an awkward body. I compared him to my family members because they’re the same way.

How does it not matter, brother ? Are you informed about muscle development in trained athletes ? Having long limbs means your potential for putting on muscle is just that much better, he's a skinny freaking 20 years old and he's already 200 pounds, its highly unliklely he doesn't AT LEAST add 10 or so pounds to that frame.

In the NHL, there's 219 players over 6'2, and theres only 29 of them that are under 200 pounds, five of which are under the age of 21.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Oh I get it. You think you’ve been in the Danault thread this whole time.

Danault is one of the best skaters of this team, reads the play very well in both ends. As much as you people like to put down a player because he doesn't play like Panarin, Danault's strength lies in his ability to force turnovers and win loose pucks for his wingers. While he wont fabricate spectacular plays or deke anyone out their jockstrap, his effort and explosiveness paired with his ability to support his teammates all over the ice and make their life easy is one of the reasons why he's considered one of the top 2 way fwds in the game.

If Kotkaniemi ends up having the same impact as Danault, you people will go on a crusade and I will eat major crow ironically. So I hope for y'all that he ends up like Danault, because otherwise you jabronis will never hear the end of it by me. In good jest.

 

[peate]

He's on his way back to Montreal, which means the season might not be too far away.

 

[DavePeak]

He isn’t eligible for the World Juniors.

I know, I just meant that it would have been great to see him in a high-level competition rather than maybe going to NHL camp if it starts on time. The World Juniors will be in Edmonton / Red Deer this year? Hmm yeah might not start on time either

 

[Deebs]

He's on his way back to Montreal, which means the season might not be too far away.

Unfortunately with the two sides fighting it out right now, it sounds like January 1 is a pipe dream.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Danault is one of the best skaters of this team, reads the play very well in both ends. As much as you people like to put down a player because he doesn't play like Panarin, Danault's strength lies in his ability to force turnovers and win loose pucks for his wingers. While he wont fabricate spectacular plays or deke anyone out their jockstrap, his effort and explosiveness paired with his ability to support his teammates all over the ice and make their life easy is one of the reasons why he's considered one of the top 2 way fwds in the game.

If Kotkaniemi ends up having the same impact as Danault, you people will go on a crusade and I will eat major crow ironically. So I hope for y'all that he ends up like Danault, because otherwise you jabronis will never hear the end of it by me. In good jest.

Lol I like Danault just fine. You just talk of KK’s limited upside like he’s Danault with the puck.

 

[salbutera]

Getzlaf's a lamp post at 6'3 220 and always was, lets get real. Hockey players don't have unattainable physiques by any standards, KK is 6'2, there's no way he doesn't walk around at 210+ when he gets his man parts.

KK will never be big boned thick like Getzlaf...ever. It’s not simply height & weight, it’s the density which KK will never achieve ...Basketball lean muscle (albeit powerful) vs football thick power.

 

[Colezuki]

Danault is one of the best skaters of this team, reads the play very well in both ends. As much as you people like to put down a player because he doesn't play like Panarin, Danault's strength lies in his ability to force turnovers and win loose pucks for his wingers. While he wont fabricate spectacular plays or deke anyone out their jockstrap, his effort and explosiveness paired with his ability to support his teammates all over the ice and make their life easy is one of the reasons why he's considered one of the top 2 way fwds in the game.

If Kotkaniemi ends up having the same impact as Danault, you people will go on a crusade and I will eat major crow ironically. So I hope for y'all that he ends up like Danault, because otherwise you jabronis will never hear the end of it by me. In good jest.

Im sure we won’t hear from you at all when he ends up better

 

[Skip Bayless]

Im sure we won’t hear from you at all when he ends up better

Yeah, I'm sure he's gonna be twice the player Danault is. An all-star, one of the best players in the game if it wasn't for his low ice time.

I know that story oh so well.

 

[Mrb1p]

KK will never be big boned thick like Getzlaf...ever. It’s not simply height & weight, it’s the density which KK will never achieve ...Basketball lean muscle (albeit powerful) vs football thick power.

Bro science...

Theres nothing especially thick about this man.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Being an athletes makes no difference. He’s got long limbs and an awkward body. I compared him to my family members because they’re the same way.

lol

 

[ECWHSWI]

Danault is one of the best skaters of this team, reads the play very well in both ends. As much as you people like to put down a player because he doesn't play like Panarin, Danault's strength lies in his ability to force turnovers and win loose pucks for his wingers. While he wont fabricate spectacular plays or deke anyone out their jockstrap, his effort and explosiveness paired with his ability to support his teammates all over the ice and make their life easy is one of the reasons why he's considered one of the top 2 way fwds in the game.

If Kotkaniemi ends up having the same impact as Danault, you people will go on a crusade and I will eat major crow ironically. So I hope for y'all that he ends up like Danault, because otherwise you jabronis will never hear the end of it by me. In good jest.

by who ? you ?

do you know the definition of impact ?

 

[azcanuck]

He's probably the fastest player on his team but okay.

Has he gotten faster/quicker or were his teamates that slow?

 

[azcanuck]

Disagree. The kid looks to have drive and may benefit from the kick in the pants of having suffered some hardship in his second season after being protected in his first. Experience, early, playing on a smaller surface will have helped him better prepare himself for North American hockey and will have influenced his offseason training accordingly.

Nuts. They almost killed his confidence. Look at his joy when he was sent to the minors .What does that tell you. The weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders.
KK reminded me a little of Kyle Turris out here in the desert. He was a skinny slow 18 year old and the Coyotes rushed him up. He took so many big hits. Only real fast skinny 18 year olds belong in the NHL if at all. The coyotes crushed Kyle Turris.
HAve the Habs. Probably not but more likely by accident. The COVID break gave the kid a reset as did his time in the minors.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Nuts. They almost killed his confidence. Look at his joy when he was sent to the minors .What does that tell you. The weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders.
KK reminded me a little of Kyle Turris out here in the desert. He was a skinny slow 18 year old and the Coyotes rushed him up. He took so many big hits. Only real fast skinny 18 year olds belong in the NHL if at all. The coyotes crushed Kyle Turris.
HAve the Habs. Probably not but more likely by accident. The COVID break gave the kid a reset as did his time in the minors.

I'm not a KK homer, but this is a terrible comparison.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Has he gotten faster/quicker or were his teamates that slow?

Bit of both, but I do think he was surprisingly fast.

 

[azcanuck]

Bit of both, but I do think he was surprisingly fast.

It's good news. Players dont generally increase speed much but with different training methods maybe he has.

I'm not a KK homer, but this is a terrible comparison.

Of course you dont explain why you think it's terrible.
Both were physically immature slower players who were hit far too much. There development was really impaired by rushing them up. Both were clearly not ready.

 

[Runner77]

Bit of both, but I do think he was surprisingly fast.

I’m more interested in observations like this than his point totals. Thx for sharing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Unfortunately with the two sides fighting it out right now, it sounds like January 1 is a pipe dream.

I always thought Jan 1st was a stretch to begin with. Bettman even said that way back a few months ago. It would be best to delay and reduce the schedule anyways. Problem is the NHLPA thinks the owners are going to pay them according to a $81.5M salary cap which is based on $5.09B of revenue. When the actual revenue will be around half that. Even more if the schedule is reduced.

NHLPA in the end is arguing about pay me now vs pay me later. It's all about timing of when you become UFA. Those who have contracts with term want to be paid now and those who have less term left are lame ducks! It's pretty simple to me... Ticket revenue represents 50% of total revenue so escrow has to fall in line with that. If escrow is capped at 20%, the deferral amount of overpayment on the 50/50 revenue split from the CBA will take longer to even out over several seasons. A flat cap for 2 or 3 years is bad for business! I'm with the owners on this!

Donald Fehr has a tough job to do at the moment. Players with contracts with term vs players who are about to become UFA. Opinions vary based on personal situations! Fairest way to manage this is a escrow that bridges the gap to actual revenue. I think that's where they will end up but it will take time for the NHLPA to come to their senses cause there are so many of them.

Signing bonus money which totals to around $500M is a problem! That has already been paid and escrow don't affect those contracts which will cause some debates within the NHLPA no doubt! The other issue is ticket revenue is about 50% of total revenue so NBA can get things going faster cause they have better TV deals. NHL and NHLPA have a massive challenge. I think they figure it out but it's lots of negotiation and that takes time

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nuts. They almost killed his confidence. Look at his joy when he was sent to the minors .What does that tell you. The weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders.
KK reminded me a little of Kyle Turris out here in the desert. He was a skinny slow 18 year old and the Coyotes rushed him up. He took so many big hits. Only real fast skinny 18 year olds belong in the NHL if at all. The coyotes crushed Kyle Turris.
HAve the Habs. Probably not but more likely by accident. The COVID break gave the kid a reset as did his time in the minors.

I think the pressure in Kotkaniemi's 2nd season was too high and you can clearly see his confidence being affected in the media scrums. Sending him to the AHL was for the best! I agree that the weight of the world was lifted and after his injury, he focused on skating and added strength. Playing NHL and then AHL gave him a good evaluation to where he was at and focusing on flaws is where good development happens.

Now think of this... Suzuki has very high expectations/pressure heading into this season. We pretty much have him penciled down as our best center at the age of 21... where he is entering his 2nd pro year. Imagine the pressure he has if he starts the season slow? This is why I find it comical where some fans are OK with trading Danault so easily.

 

[Benstheman]

I think the pressure in Kotkaniemi's 2nd season was too high and you can clearly see his confidence being affected in the media scrums. Sending him to the AHL was for the best! I agree that the weight of the world was lifted and after his injury, he focused on skating and added strength. Playing NHL and then AHL gave him a good evaluation to where he was at and focusing on flaws is where good development happens.

Now think of this... Suzuki has very high expectations/pressure heading into this season. We pretty much have him penciled down as our best center at the age of 21... where he is entering his 2nd pro year. Imagine the pressure he has if he starts the season slow? This is why I find it comical where some fans are OK with trading Danault so easily.

Oh man I so agree with you on this. I understand the arguments coming from ppl saying Danault should leave, which are he should not steal playing time from KK and Suzuki and Habs should not pay 5M$ for a 3 rd line center. The thing is those are true if Suzuki and KK are in fact true 1st and 2nd line centers NOW. Which they aren’t imo. I think if they get there, it will be in 2-3 years. Now salary wise, I think we can afford 2-3 years of Danault at 5M$ before it causes a problem for the young centers contracts and the salary cap.

i think Bergevin can and HAVE to sign Danault because i think he is even more important now that we have two good to great young talented centers. We now have great depth on wings and all three centers will have good opportunities to produce offensively. And like you have said, we saw what rushing KK did to his confidence. We don’t have to make the same mistake with Suzuki, even though he is more mature an a different player. Let them grow with the team. Let them gain playoffs experience before they have to be dominant.

As for Danault, I’m pretty sure he prefers playing 15-16 minutes on a great team than that 19 on bottom feeder. My way of dealing with him and his contract would be to give him what he wants in terms of years but be really strict on the NTC or NMC.

I’d be really comfortable with a 5-6 years/5M$ per contract without a NMC or big number of teams NTC. My strategy would be to trade him in 2-3 years if both KK and Suzuki get to where they are projected. Danault would still have good value for a team in needs of a 30 yo 2nd line center with 3 years on his contract, at a decent salary.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Oh man I so agree with you on this. I understand the arguments coming from ppl saying Danault should leave, which are he should not steal playing time from KK and Suzuki and Habs should not pay 5M$ for a 3 rd line center. The thing is those are true if Suzuki and KK are in fact true 1st and 2nd line centers NOW. Which they aren’t imo. I think if they get there, it will be in 2-3 years. Now salary wise, I think we can afford 2-3 years of Danault at 5M$ before it causes a problem for the young centers contracts and the salary cap.

i think Bergevin can and HAVE to sign Danault because i think he is even more important now that we have two good to great young talented centers. We now have great depth on wings and all three centers will have good opportunities to produce offensively. And like you have said, we saw what rushing KK did to his confidence. We don’t have to make the same mistake with Suzuki, even though he is more mature an a different player. Let them grow with the team. Let them gain playoffs experience before they have to be dominant.

As for Danault, I’m pretty sure he prefers playing 15-16 minutes on a great team than that 19 on bottom feeder. My way of dealing with him and his contract would be to give him what he wants in terms of years but be really strict on the NTC or NMC.

I’d be really comfortable with a 5-6 years/5M$ per contract without a NMC or big number of teams NTC. My strategy would be to trade him in 2-3 years if both KK and Suzuki get to where they are projected. Danault would still have good value for a team in needs of a 30 yo 2nd line center with 3 years on his contract, at a decent salary.

Yup! Term of Danault's contract is where the focus should be. If the term is set to 2-4 years, it's perfect timing to evaluate Suzuki and KK and others like Evans and Poehling. If Danault wants to be part of our team, fall in line. If he demands to be placed higher than Suzuki and KK, he's being greedy and selfish cause the Habs are the ones who gave him the oppertunity to be where he is at today. Basically, he would be saying I deserved the opportunity and Suzuki and KK don't. I'm a huge Danault fan but he has to come to grips that he is part of our plans but not the biggest part.