Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 10

[SlafCaufield]

Yup! Term of Danault's contract is where the focus should be. If the term is set to 2-4 years, it's perfect timing to evaluate Suzuki and KK and others like Evans and Poehling. If Danault wants to be part of our team, fall in line. If he demands to be placed higher than Suzuki and KK, he's being greedy and selfish cause the Habs are the ones who gave him the oppertunity to be where he is at today. Basically, he would be saying I deserved the opportunity and Suzuki and KK don't. I'm a huge Danault fan but he has to come to grips that he is part of our plans but not the biggest part.

In no world should Danault play ahead of Koko

 

[japhi]

In no world should Danault play ahead of Koko

first, they will roll 4 lines next year with the top nine playing very similar minutes. So you would have to define “playing ahead”. Do you want Kk first wave PK? Taking all key draws in his own end?

Danault is going to get minutes because he can do that stuff better then any other C on the team, and better then most forwards in the league. So don’t freak out when he gets 18 mins next year, a large portion of those will be tough minutes that I’d rather keep KK away from. Let’s see KK play 15-17 offensive minutes with good PP time and who cares what Danault does? There are enough minutes and good minutes for all these guys to succeed. What they do with it is on them, let the best players play.

 

[Habs Halifax]

In no world should Danault play ahead of Koko

When KK is more closer to his prime yeah. At 20 next year? Don't be so sure

 

[HespelerGreenFlash]

first, they will roll 4 lines next year with the top nine playing very similar minutes. So you would have to define “playing ahead”. Do you want Kk first wave PK? Taking all key draws in his own end?

Danault is going to get minutes because he can do that stuff better then any other C on the team, and better then most forwards in the league. So don’t freak out when he gets 18 mins next year, a large portion of those will be tough minutes that I’d rather keep KK away from. Let’s see KK play 15-17 offensive minutes with good PP time and who cares what Danault does? There are enough minutes and good minutes for all these guys to succeed. What they do with it is on them, let the best players play.

Stop making so much sense

 

[montreal]

So you would have to define “playing ahead”.

who gets the better wingers

 

[Habs Halifax]

who gets the better wingers

Interesting question... How would you rank the wingers on our team now? Gallagher, Tatar, Anderson, Toffoli, Drouin, Armia, Lehkonen, Byron

 

[azcanuck]

Yup! Term of Danault's contract is where the focus should be. If the term is set to 2-4 years, it's perfect timing to evaluate Suzuki and KK and others like Evans and Poehling. If Danault wants to be part of our team, fall in line. If he demands to be placed higher than Suzuki and KK, he's being greedy and selfish cause the Habs are the ones who gave him the oppertunity to be where he is at today. Basically, he would be saying I deserved the opportunity and Suzuki and KK don't. I'm a huge Danault fan but he has to come to grips that he is part of our plans but not the biggest part.

You cant sign everyone. Danault will be the odd man out. He's a decent player but he will be an overpayment and I'd let him play out the last year. He's not going to upend KK and suzuki so he'd be a third line player making way too much. No thanks.
Next season will be perfect for the team in letting Danault take some of the heat off of KK and Suzuki while they currently develop, if there's some hiccups we have a reliable guy. But in keeping an eye on the future salary cap and paying KK and Suzuki you cant sign Danault or Tatar to big deals.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You cant sign everyone. Danault will be the odd man out. He's a decent player but he will be an overpayment and I'd let him play out the last year. He's not going to upend KK and suzuki so he'd be a third line player making way too much. No thanks.
Next season will be perfect for the team in letting Danault take some of the heat off of KK and Suzuki while they currently develop, if there's some hiccups we have a reliable guy. But in keeping an eye on the future salary cap and paying KK and Suzuki you cant sign Danault or Tatar to big deals.

Rather keep Danault vs Tatar. We need Danault for the next 2-4 years while Suzuki and KK are still young. I'm keeping the 3 centers. Sign Danault for 2-4 years to keep the AAV down and then you can pay Suzuki and KK for prime years after their ELC/Bridge contracts.

Tatar and Byron might have to be let go and traded. Unless, Seattle takes one of Chiarot or Edmundson. Then there is room for Tatar. Tight but there is room. Hold down the fort till the cap goes up bud!

Bettman is asking for another 16% of escrow bringing it up to 36%. I understand what he is trying to do... he wants the escrow to be in line with potential revenue which to me is around $3B (Limited fans in the seats). Bettman and the owners strategy is back to normal for 21/22 or close to normal as possible. Flat cap for 2+ years is bad for business for both the players and teams.

KK won't be getting more on bridge deals vs Point, Laine, Sergachev, McAvoy. I'm not worried about signing Danault for 2-4 years around $5.5M AAV (+/-)

 

[DAChampion]

Re: Danault vs Tatar,

I think that this depends on too many factors to predict, beyond how those two and even Kotkaniemi and Suzuki play this year.

For example, it depends on the progression (or non-progression...)of each of Poehling, Evans, Caulfield, maybe some others too.

I think that Bergevin took the best decision he could in waiting another year to take the decision.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Re: Danault vs Tatar,

I think that this depends on too many factors to predict, beyond how those two and even Kotkaniemi and Suzuki play this year.

For example, it depends on the progression (or non-progression...)of each of Poehling, Evans, Caulfield, maybe some others too.

I think that Bergevin took the best decision he could in waiting another year to take the decision.

100%! Right now, I would pick Danault over Tatar but waiting on extending either of them is smart. All I know is that if you keep Tatar and let Danault go, you better sign a solid 3C!

 

[japhi]

who gets the better wingers

There is another side to that coin, which wingers get the best C. KK projects this year as our third best C.

And he is going to get good wingers, we added two top 6 guys. So he may not get the wingers that his super fans will want, but he is going to play with legit top 9 wingers.

He is going to be given every opportunity to succeed, what he does with that opportunity is up to him. Danault is a non factor in how KK progresses from here.

Side note, its pretty funny that folks here are worried about Danault taking time from KK, when Danault himself is worried about the opposite. Truth is in the middle, they will roll 3, all will get similar minutes, all will play with top 9 wingers. I am curious to see who steps up. Hoping KK does, but if Danault looks significantly better then KK so be it. This isn’t pee wee, and these guys aren’t our kids. Let them figure it out with their play.

 

[Mrb1p]

Re: Danault vs Tatar,

I think that this depends on too many factors to predict, beyond how those two and even Kotkaniemi and Suzuki play this year.

For example, it depends on the progression (or non-progression...)of each of Poehling, Evans, Caulfield, maybe some others too.

I think that Bergevin took the best decision he could in waiting another year to take the decision.

Why would the progression of a potential 3rd line C and the progression of a top 6 rw be a factor in wether or not the Habs keep by far the best LW the habs have

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Hopefully back at the gym. KK at 6’3 210lbs would be perfect.

 

[japhi]

You cant sign everyone. Danault will be the odd man out. He's a decent player but he will be an overpayment and I'd let him play out the last year. He's not going to upend KK and suzuki so he'd be a third line player making way too much. No thanks.
Next season will be perfect for the team in letting Danault take some of the heat off of KK and Suzuki while they currently develop, if there's some hiccups we have a reliable guy. But in keeping an eye on the future salary cap and paying KK and Suzuki you cant sign Danault or Tatar to big deals.

We haven't had C depth in years and some of you guys are just itching to give it away ASAP. Let him play out the season and walk?

I get that some people don't like Danault, defensive hockey is not for everyone, but he would get a huge return in a trade. If he walks at the end of the year for nothing, we would need to go immediately to market and replace him. Literally the minute he is out of the lineup we would have to start the search for a guy EXACTLY like him.

Or maybe you want to go back to the Peca / Thompson / Insert scrub days? Is that the plan, find 1Mm per year plugs to split 25 mins a game = success?

Don't even know why I bother posting here, some of these opinions make me question if we are watching the same sport.

 

[azcanuck]

We haven't had C depth in years and some of you guys are just itching to give it away ASAP. Let him play out the season and walk?

I get that some people don't like Danault, defensive hockey is not for everyone, but he would get a huge return in a trade. If he walks at the end of the year for nothing, we would need to go immediately to market and replace him. Literally the minute he is out of the lineup we would have to start the search for a guy EXACTLY like him.

Or maybe you want to go back to the Peca / Thompson / Insert scrub days? Is that the plan, find 1Mm per year plugs to split 25 mins a game = success?

Don't even know why I bother posting here, some of these opinions make me question if we are watching the same sport.

Every team battles the salary cap. Teams have had to get rid of very good players because they couldnt fit them under the cap.
I wouldnt be against trading Danault but he'll never be worth the money he will command . You just cant pay a third line center the money he will get.
I'm also not against letting him play out his final year. That's a very hungry player we'll have. He's already at an age where NHL players go into decline. Giving a guy more money while he declines is a recipe for disaster.

 

[montreal]

There is another side to that coin, which wingers get the best C. KK projects this year as our third best C.

And he is going to get good wingers, we added two top 6 guys. So he may not get the wingers that his super fans will want, but he is going to play with legit top 9 wingers.

He is going to be given every opportunity to succeed, what he does with that opportunity is up to him. Danault is a non factor in how KK progresses from here.

Side note, its pretty funny that folks here are worried about Danault taking time from KK, when Danault himself is worried about the opposite. Truth is in the middle, they will roll 3, all will get similar minutes, all will play with top 9 wingers. I am curious to see who steps up. Hoping KK does, but if Danault looks significantly better then KK so be it. This isn’t pee wee, and these guys aren’t our kids. Let them figure it out with their play.

and who knows if you give KK the wingers that Danault had that he can't do better as it's not like he doesn't have the better offensive tools. Danault turns 28 in less then 3 months and has only in the last 2 seasons had more then 40 pts, at 18 KK wasn't that far from 40 while having weak wingers and not really being NHL ready physically (skating, strength, mass).

So we won't know who's the best 2 centers on this team unless we are willing to try him with 2 of our top 4 wingers.

I don't agree that he's going to get good wingers per say, as i assume it will be the top line from last year, Drouin Suzuki Anderson or Tof leaving the other one for KK which means Armia, Leks or Byron unless a trade is made will be one of his other wingers. For his skill level I don't think that's good enough, those players are solid enough 3rd liners but KK's passing game would benefit him more with a Gallagher or a Tatar, Tof, Anderson, guys that we know can put the puck in the net as KK will be able to get the puck to them.

Danault has some impact on his development, when you chose to develop players in the NHL, which I am strongly against but as we saw/heard for years about the DD/Galchenyuk TOI, it certainly has some impact. They rushed this kid, he's our future unless you think we can win a cup with Danault in the top 6 with his career high of 53 pts. The rolled the dice on KK, yet this organization wants to hire dinosaur coaches and then we wonder why we can't develop high skilled players. Something has to change cause I don't see us winning a cup with Danault leading the top line imo.

Now if KK gets these wingers and struggles then you have no choice although for me it would be all about the coming years, not hoping we get a wild card next season. I want to build a contender for years to come and KK is one of those players that we must hit on or I don't see it happening.

 

[CHwest]

Dano will be worth a very good prospect at the trade deadline. He is a player that could put a 1 or 2 line team over the top.

 

[japhi]

and who knows if you give KK the wingers that Danault had that he can't do better as it's not like he doesn't have the better offensive tools. Danault turns 28 in less then 3 months and has only in the last 2 seasons had more then 40 pts, at 18 KK wasn't that far from 40 while having weak wingers and not really being NHL ready physically (skating, strength, mass).

So we won't know who's the best 2 centers on this team unless we are willing to try him with 2 of our top 4 wingers.

The Danault line was one of the best 5v5 lines in the league. Both his wingers have had career seasons with him. And they play tough minutes.

Danault, yesterday, today and probably for at least a few more years is a better overall player. Today, it's not even close, if you played him Phil's exact minutes he would likely get embarrassed.

KK is going to get 60% o zone starts, top 9 wingers and 15-17 mins a game. I'm not sure what the problem is.

This conversation reminds me of when AG was playing with our best C (pleks), and Best RW (Gally), everyone was up in arms that he wasn't centering Max. Like, wtf guys. He walks into the league and gets our best C and RW and it's not enough?

Back to KK...if he needs Gallagher and Tatar to succeed then we picked the wrong guy at 3 OVA.

 

[japhi]

Dano will be worth a very good prospect at the trade deadline. He is a player that could put a 1 or 2 line team over the top.

You mean like us, if we get rid of Danault?

 

[montreal]

The Danault line was one of the best 5v5 lines in the league. Both his wingers have had career seasons with him. And they play tough minutes.

Danault, yesterday, today and probably for at least a few more years is a better overall player. Today, it's not even close, if you played him Phil's exact minutes he would likely get embarrassed.

KK is going to get 60% o zone starts, top 9 wingers and 15-17 mins a game. I'm not sure what the problem is.

This conversation reminds me of when AG was playing with our best C (pleks), and Best RW (Gally), everyone was up in arms that he wasn't centering Max. Like, wtf guys. He walks into the league and gets our best C and RW and it's not enough?

Back to KK...if he needs Gallagher and Tatar to succeed then we picked the wrong guy at 3 OVA.

what the line was doesn't matter, it's what can it be if it has a more skilled center.

KK is progressing, there's no way anyone knows what he will be next season or each following, so to say Danault will be better is just speculation, we won't know until we see how he's playing. He could break out next season, or maybe not for 2 more years or maybe never who knows as guessing when a young player will breakout is not easy to predict.

Clearly the coaching staff saw something in the playoffs to warrant the increased role, now we need to see if he can follow it up or not. KK with improved skating, strength, balance, confidence, is exactly what he needs and it looks like he's getting there, if he does then there's no telling how good he can be.

It's not about needing Tatar, Gallagher, it's putting the better playmaker with your best snipers, that's just logical to me. KK can really dish it, Leks and Armia are not going to turn into 30 goal scorers suddenly so why not put the better playmaker with the better shooters.

 

[Roadhouse]

what the line was doesn't matter, it's what can it be if it has a more skilled center.

KK is progressing, there's no way anyone knows what he will be next season or each following, so to say Danault will be better is just speculation, we won't know until we see how he's playing. He could break out next season, or maybe not for 2 more years or maybe never who knows as guessing when a young player will breakout is not easy to predict.

Clearly the coaching staff saw something in the playoffs to warrant the increased role, now we need to see if he can follow it up or not. KK with improved skating, strength, balance, confidence, is exactly what he needs and it looks like he's getting there, if he does then there's no telling how good he can be.

It's not about needing Tatar, Gallagher, it's putting the better playmaker with your best snipers, that's just logical to me. KK can really dish it, Leks and Armia are not going to turn into 30 goal scorers suddenly so why not put the better playmaker with the better shooters.

Regarding the bolded - don't you find it refreshing that, with Toffoli & Anderson's shots plus Suzuki and KK's 'maturing' shots, we now have a much more balanced offense than when we iced Patches and Radulov on the top line hoping for miracles?

Caufield will be happy as a pig in shit with the attention the top lines will be getting by the time he squeezes in for a sheltered role with 3rd line TOI.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

In no world should Danault play ahead of Koko

Welcome to Jurassic Park, home of the Claudasaurus

 

[Redux91]

Hopefully back at the gym. KK at 6’3 210lbs would be perfect.

I think hes at that right now honestly

 

[Aces on the road]

In no world should Danault play ahead of Koko

Hockey is team game. Team wants to win so best players are playing. Danault is still best player.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hockey is team game. Team wants to win so best players are playing. Danault is still best player.

Debatable considering KK and Suzuki were leagues ahead of Danault in the post season.