Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 10

[Aces on the road]

Debatable considering KK and Suzuki were leagues ahead of Danault in the post season.

No, not even close.

 

[WeThreeKings]

No, not even close.

Correct, it was not even close. Danault barely looked like a NHLer.

 

[Rico Suave]

Danault was TERRIBLE in the playoffs

 

[417]

When KK is more closer to his prime yeah. At 20 next year? Don't be so sure

That's like the Canucks saying let's wait until Petersson is closer to his prime and play Brandon Sutter instead.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Don’t know why you guys are still arguing about Danault. Danault is there to take the big face offs and play the PK and to be used in defensive matchups. These are different minutes. We also have lots of wingers, and giving him good offensive wingers allows the line to produce offensively as well.

 

[CauZuki]

That's like the Canucks saying let's wait until Petersson is closer to his prime and play Brandon Sutter instead.

 

[417]

Pretty simple...

This idea that we have to wait until Kotkaniemi or Suzuki are closer to their prime before we put them in more prominent roles is out dated.

Hence the analogy using the Canucks...

When Elias Petersson made his debut with the Canucks, imagine they had the same mentality.

Of course, I'm not comparing KK to EP or even PD to BS per se...

I'm just trying to convey the thought that we don't always have to be so careful with our players.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So we are simultaneously rushing Kotkaniemi and being too cautious lol

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Kotkaniemi is on track to reach his potential. He really just needs to maximize his size/speed combo and he’s almost there. Once he does, he’ll pretty much be the guy that he always was gonna be. Can iron out things like face offs over time, but for the most part he’ll be what he is.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Danault was TERRIBLE in the playoffs

Yeah, he was awful.....winning all of those faceoffs and shutting down the oppositions best players, who does this guy think he is.

And Kotkaniemi was terrible at passing because he couldn't even get a single assist.....

Stats are soooo much fun and unlock all the wonders of the universe when I analyze them under my giant subjective lens and pass them though my favorite bias confirmation filtration system.

 

[417]

So we are simultaneously rushing Kotkaniemi and being too cautious lol

Not sure who you're talking about...but I never suggested they rushed him.

But if they continue to shelter him, then yes, I would say they are being too cautious.

Philippe Danault is the player he is today mainly because the team threw caution to the wind and thrust him into a role and to his credit, he took it and ran. He didn't just turn into a 2 way player over night.

Why couldn't the same happen with Kotkaniemi?

 

[26Mats]

Kotkaniemi is on track to reach his potential. He really just needs to maximize his size/speed combo and he’s almost there. Once he does, he’ll pretty much be the guy that he always was gonna be. Can iron out things like face offs over time, but for the most part he’ll be what he is.

He has the toughness, which is starting to come out with his added size. He also has the shot, which is starting to come out with his added strength.

But how high his hockey IQ is, in each the defensive and offensive zones, remains to be seen. It's a league of talent. There are more and more talented players coming into the league every year. Where he ranks amongst those he'll be competing against every night remains to be seen. And I don't only mean in terms of how many players will pass him, I also mean it will be interesting to see how many players he'll become better then. He has a lot of good mental aptitudes. We'll see how they actually translate into aptitudes in making things happen, night in and night out, offensively and defensively.

 

[The Great Weal]

Danault barely looked like a NHLer.

Danault was TERRIBLE in the playoffs

What the hell am I reading here? And people say Danault doesn't get hate.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Not sure who you're talking about...but I never suggested they rushed him.

But if they continue to shelter him, then yes, I would say they are being too cautious.

Philippe Danault is the player he is today mainly because the team threw caution to the wind and thrust him into a role and to his credit, he took it and ran. He didn't just turn into a 2 way player over night.

Why couldn't the same happen with Kotkaniemi?

You got half the posters saying he was rushed and half saying he’s being sheltered. Maybe the porridge is just right?

 

[MD thaivuN]

You got half the posters saying he was rushed and half saying he’s being sheltered. Maybe the porridge is just right?

rushed into becoming a 4th liner

 

[417]

You got half the posters saying he was rushed and half saying he’s being sheltered. Maybe the porridge is just right?

So you're saying different people have different opinions about the same topic.

Hmm....wild stuff

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So you're saying different people have different opinions about the same topic.

Hmm....wild stuff

It’s almost as if none of you have any idea what you’re talking about lol

 

[MasterD]

Danault was TERRIBLE in the playoffs

Not to defend the guy, he's clearly a 3rd liner to me, but he voiced concerns about the playoffs and the bubble multiple times. I think he just didn't want to be there, and that of course reflected in his play

 

[WeThreeKings]

What the hell am I reading here? And people say Danault doesn't get hate.

It's the truth. He didn't have a good playoffs.

He wont be worth his extension either. Too bad because he would be perfect at 3C. Unfortunately he wants more.

 

[Mrb1p]

Don’t know why you guys are still arguing about Danault. Danault is there to take the big face offs and play the PK and to be used in defensive matchups. These are different minutes. We also have lots of wingers, and giving him good offensive wingers allows the line to produce offensively as well.

Ye, sure, then why is he on the ice late in the game when they need a goal? Why is he on the ice with our two best offensive players?

What the hell am I reading here? And people say Danault doesn't get hate.

Its kinda true though. I know you think Gally and Tatar were bad but it doesnt excuse Danaults performance, especially if you look at it relatively to what Danault and Julien think he is and what he think he is worth.

I mean, if hes paid 4 millions and plays like this on the third line, kay... but if hes paid 6 and plays with top 6ers for 18 minutes again this team wont be going anywhere.

You got half the posters saying he was rushed and half saying he’s being sheltered. Maybe the porridge is just right?

Its almost as if you dont understand the concepts.

KK isnt a third liner and is being developped as such, he would have benefited from actually playing his role in lower leagues rather than rotting on the third (actual fourth sometimes).

Sheltering doesnt work, never has, never will. Play players where you want them to play, theres no point in teaching a formula one driver how to back up a semi truck.

 

[DAChampion]

theres no point in teaching a formula one driver how to back up a semi truck.

 

[Mrb1p]

Me coming in with the key metaphor at the end of my compelling argument to deliver the finishing blow

 

[The Great Weal]

It's the truth. He didn't have a good playoffs.

Nah, it's a blatant lie. He had an absurd amount of defensive zone starts. He was a monster defensively by shutting people down and winning key faceoffs. He got stuck with 2 scrubs. He was quite easily the 3rd MVP of the forwards until Drouin showed up in the last 2 games. He most definitely had a good playoff performance. He excelled in his role of being the go to defensive guy.

Its kinda true though. I know you think Gally and Tatar were bad but it doesnt excuse Danaults performance, especially if you look at it relatively to what Danault and Julien think he is and what he think he is worth.

I mean, if hes paid 4 millions and plays like this on the third line, kay... but if hes paid 6 and plays with top 6ers for 18 minutes again this team wont be going anywhere.

I "think" Gally and Tatar were bad? Are you saying they weren't that bad? Because if Danault was barely an NHLer in the playoffs, Tatar and Gally should be asked to stay home if they played in a kids house league. All I hear is that it's impossible for KK to produce by playing with guys like Byron and Lehkonen, but Danault is expected to produce the high end numbers lol. Our wingers in the playoffs were trash and they held us back, Danault and the other centers were the only consistent positives from our forwards.

People here have a weird obsession with ice time for the centers. Danault is going to be the go to PK guy while Suzuki/KK play on the PP. This team has 2nd line wingers so the difference between the wingers won't prevent someone from scoring an extra 20 points or whatever.

 

[The Great Weal]

Not to defend the guy, he's clearly a 3rd liner to me, but he voiced concerns about the playoffs and the bubble multiple times. I think he just didn't want to be there, and that of course reflected in his play

We are talking about Danault right? The guy who was the main guy to shut down the opposition? Not Max Domi who couldn't outplay 4th liners.

 

[26Mats]

Ye, sure, then why is he on the ice late in the game when they need a goal? Why is he on the ice with our two best offensive players?



Its kinda true though. I know you think Gally and Tatar were bad but it doesnt excuse Danaults performance, especially if you look at it relatively to what Danault and Julien think he is and what he think he is worth.

I mean, if hes paid 4 millions and plays like this on the third line, kay... but if hes paid 6 and plays with top 6ers for 18 minutes again this team wont be going anywhere.



Its almost as if you dont understand the concepts.

KK isnt a third liner and is being developped as such, he would have benefited from actually playing his role in lower leagues rather than rotting on the third (actual fourth sometimes).

Sheltering doesnt work, never has, never will. Play players where you want them to play, theres no point in teaching a formula one driver how to back up a semi truck.

Plekanec spent his wholen1st NHL season as the 4c. He then got some time half way through his second year on the wing in the top 6 - but it took an injury for that to happen. This is not unlike KK, who got his shot in the top 6 because Domi was sidelined due to diabetes precautions. But KK got his shot at a much younger age than KK. And of course Plekanec turned out to be among our leading scorer many years.