Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - AHL edition

[DAChampion]

He had a great rookie year as a kid who wasn't even pegged to be an NHLer last year. He's trending very good. You make 3rd overall picks sound like guaranteed franchise players. 19 year olds don't go PPG in the AHL.

It's BS to post hoc diss a pick that most were fine with and only a year and a half after it's happened. No one's over the moon.

The bad isn't emphasized enough? Wow you're clearly not on this board enough. You'll get your fill soon enough. Trust me.

I've noticed that a lot of posters on this forum are addicted to negativity. I find that remarkable, as I myself have been a negative poster and an extreme critic of MB, and yet even I am caught off guard by the indulgent cynicism of a lot of posters here:

Kotkaniemi is a bust, the best case scenario is that he becomes Lars Eller
Brook is a bust.
Poehling is a bust.
Bouchard is a bad development coach.
There's no point in acquiring additional 1st rounders.
Drouin sucks.
Danault sucks.
Domi sucks.

We're mostly reading positive things about Caulfield, Romanov, and Suzuki now, but you just now that the moment one of them has a 5-game or 10-game slump in either the AHL or NHL we'll see hundreds of posts lamenting what busts they are, and repeating all of their alleged failings.

This exaggerated cynicism exceeds the skepticism that is warranted, and at this point it's just people indulging in negativity, being edgelords, and perhaps posters compensating for a lack of positivity and a lack of hope in their offline lives.

 

[calder candidate]

I don’t really care about is production has much has I like him to impact and drive the play... McCarron had like 24pts in like 25 games and that was it...
11pts 0 goals, mostly secondary assit, isn’t impressive regardless of age when you consider that he as already played 1.5 season in the NHL where he show no progression.
Tkachuk having a impact in the NHL
Hayton had 5pts in 5 game in the AHL 4 in 17 in the NHL.
Zadina 51pts in 80g in the AHL and 15 in 28 in the NHL.
Hughes is 54pts in 67 games in the NHL
Sandin...There are plenty of guys having success or that have shown more dominance or progression in the past years...

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I've noticed that a lot of posters on this forum are addicted to negativity. I find that remarkable, as I myself have been a negative poster and an extreme critic of MB, and yet even I am caught off guard by the indulgent cynicism of a lot of posters here:

Kotkaniemi is a bust, the best case scenario is that he becomes Lars Eller
Brook is a bust.
Poehling is a bust.
Bouchard is a bad development coach.
There's no point in acquiring additional 1st rounders.
Drouin sucks.
Danault sucks.
Domi sucks.

We're mostly reading positive things about Caulfield, Romanov, and Suzuki now, but you just now that the moment one of them has a 5-game or 10-game slump in either the AHL or NHL we'll see hundreds of posts lamenting what busts they are, and repeating all of their alleged failings.

This exaggerated cynicism exceeds the skepticism that is warranted, and at this point it's just people indulging in negativity, being edgelords, and perhaps posters compensating for a lack of positivity and a lack of hope in their offline lives.

Absolutely. It’s likely many reasons. And of course there’s legit criticisms and reasons to be angry.

 

[philipsson]

Lots of excuses for the #3 overall pick not scoring in the AHL in this thread. The odds are suggesting they are going to have another Timmins gemstone here, along with Poehling. Good lord we could have had Hughes or Tkachuk, and we are left wondering if JK is going to score a goal.

I hope the rink goes empty and people protest this stupid franchise.

I don't think you posting in this thread brings anything relevant anymore. You hate the kid (and org.) and every single one of your post in just a new way to say it. Gets old.

 

[HelloBellyvo]

I've noticed that a lot of posters on this forum are addicted to negativity. I find that remarkable, as I myself have been a negative poster and an extreme critic of MB, and yet even I am caught off guard by the indulgent cynicism of a lot of posters here:

Kotkaniemi is a bust, the best case scenario is that he becomes Lars Eller
Brook is a bust.
Poehling is a bust.
Bouchard is a bad development coach.
There's no point in acquiring additional 1st rounders.
Drouin sucks.
Danault sucks.
Domi sucks.

We're mostly reading positive things about Caulfield, Romanov, and Suzuki now, but you just now that the moment one of them has a 5-game or 10-game slump in either the AHL or NHL we'll see hundreds of posts lamenting what busts they are, and repeating all of their alleged failings.

This exaggerated cynicism exceeds the skepticism that is warranted, and at this point it's just people indulging in negativity, being edgelords, and perhaps posters compensating for a lack of positivity and a lack of hope in their offline lives.

A very perceptive and insightful post

 

[montreal]

Now I like the kid and I think he has potential, but how much stock can you put into a single 17 year old season when the head coach was his father, who happened to get fired the following year?

I don't think it has that much baring as he wasn't even playing center that year from what I understand.

When you look at these kinds of things in context they don't really mean that much good or bad, as it's what comes after that that matters. For prospects they need to be able to build off big years like that and show progress. Which he did last year but this year looks like a train wreck so that is going to throw up many red flags. How he responds next year and beyond is all that matters.

If you look at the list of the other U-18 players that did better then him, yes Barkov is at the top as he crushed it and Laine on the list too but there's also Leks and we see what he's turning into. Some players just continue to progress, others peak at 17, 18, 19, etc.. while others regress due to various factors, injuries, lack of physical tools that get exposed in the NHL etc...

So it's nice to see that Kotka was able to produce among the best ever as a U-18 year old in Liiga but what he does after that is what counts. It shows he's got the skill but does the skating hold him back, will his skills continue to progress or stagnate? No one knows, we just have to wait and see how it goes.

 

[Habs]

I don't think you posting in this thread brings anything relevant anymore. You hate the kid (and org.) and every single one of your post in just a new way to say it. Gets old.

The truth hurts. The only bright spot is Suzuki, beyond that its complete 'fingers crossed' and 'here's hoping' development, because of awful scouting and suspect developme nt. This franchise deserves zero praise, from ownership to management. They could have sold assets again this year, but refused to search out deals, or somehow overvalued their players and prospects.

Kotkaniemi may be a decent 3-4 line C one day, and if you can justify burning a pick at 3 for that outcome, your expectations are right on par with ownership, so go buy some season tickets. We could have had Quinn Hughes, talk about making your fanbase excited for the future.

 

[sharks9]

The truth hurts. The only bright spot is Suzuki, beyond that its complete 'fingers crossed' and 'here's hoping' development, because of awful scouting and suspect developme nt. This franchise deserves zero praise, from ownership to management. They could have sold assets again this year, but refused to search out deals, or somehow overvalued their players and prospects.

Kotkaniemi may be a decent 3-4 line C one day, and if you can justify burning a pick at 3 for that outcome, your expectations are right on par with ownership, so go buy some season tickets. We could have had Quinn Hughes, talk about making your fanbase excited for the future.

You really think he peaked at 18? What a joke

 

[montreal]

The truth hurts. The only bright spot is Suzuki, beyond that its complete 'fingers crossed' and 'here's hoping' development, because of awful scouting and suspect developme nt. This franchise deserves zero praise, from ownership to management. They could have sold assets again this year, but refused to search out deals, or somehow overvalued their players and prospects.

Kotkaniemi may be a decent 3-4 line C one day, and if you can justify burning a pick at 3 for that outcome, your expectations are right on par with ownership, so go buy some season tickets. We could have had Quinn Hughes, talk about making your fanbase excited for the future.

It's clearly a bad time to be a Hab fan as this organization just seems to do so much wrong while their owner/fanboy president just sits there talking about how it may take 8 years. Clearly we are f***ed for what could be a very long time as our president and GM just seem f***ing clueless.

Suzuki is the lone bright spot in the NHL, Caufield, Romanov are certainly high value assets as is Kotka though his season has tarnished that label a good bit. The GM's insistence on rushing kids to the NHL and what really stings is that instead of learning from his mistakes, he seems to be making even worse decisions which i didn't think was possible but here we are. At least it only took him till Feb to figure out Kotka needed to go to the AHL, which is a good sign since it took him 6 years to figure out he needed to fire Lefebvre. But the way he's handled Poehling and Primeau makes me think he's getting worse at development instead of better.

That said, while the plan is clearly about the future, so it's all about fingers crossed and hope cause unless we win the 1st OA in the lottery or somehow trade for it, we won't likely ever have that Crosby, McDavid, etc... level can't miss prospect even if you were the worse development team in the NHL. With Price, Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, etc.. outside of long term injuries, we just are stuck in limbo as we won't be at the bottom like the sens and others and clearly aren't good enough to contend with TB, Boston, etc..

So maybe we get lucky and hit on several prospects, with the way we develop I'm not betting on it and it's not like Timmins has been hitting it out of the park for years now. I think they made a big mistake in trading Sergachev for such a candy ass player but when your GM can't evaluate talent it's not a surprise there.

What I hope is that we see something like Suzuki, Kotka, Poehling, Olofsson or Evans or whoever as the 1-2-3-4 centers in a few years if they can live up to their ceilings. So if Kotka can turn into a consistent 50, 60, 70 pt player then we should be happy with the pick even though others might have been a better choice. If that happens and we hit on several of Romanov, Norlinder, Struble, Harris, Juulsen, Brook, Fleury, Mete, Fairbrother, and if Primeau can be anywhere near Price even now (not Prime Price) then it's certainly a good start.

But a lot of ifs and maybes there. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out as I just don't see Molson, MB, Timmins, going anywhere any time soon at least. Maybe in 2 years if the shit continues to hit the fan when we have all our big UFA's in Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault.

 

[blarneylad]

But a lot of ifs and maybes there. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out as I just don't see Molson, MB, Timmins, going anywhere any time soon at least. Maybe in 2 years if the shit continues to hit the fan when we have all our big UFA's in Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault.

This was an excellent post

But I had to highlight this section because of how bad that these are our BIG UFA's is lol

 

[ahmedou]

FKKS let's stay neutral on comments (whether hating or loving this pick).

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

This was an excellent post

But I had to highlight this section because of how bad that these are our BIG UFA's is lol

I feel everyone on Montreal is being shipped. With so many expiring contracts.. now may be the time to rebuild.. a very good plan by Bergevin and co if This is truly what's happening. With this year 1st-10th pick.. should be set up for the next 3-8 years hahahaha

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

FKKS let's stay neutral on comments (whether hating or loving this pick).

Ok dad.

 

[Habs]

It's clearly a bad time to be a Hab fan as this organization just seems to do so much wrong while their owner/fanboy president just sits there talking about how it may take 8 years. Clearly we are f***ed for what could be a very long time as our president and GM just seem f***ing clueless.

Suzuki is the lone bright spot in the NHL, Caufield, Romanov are certainly high value assets as is Kotka though his season has tarnished that label a good bit. The GM's insistence on rushing kids to the NHL and what really stings is that instead of learning from his mistakes, he seems to be making even worse decisions which i didn't think was possible but here we are. At least it only took him till Feb to figure out Kotka needed to go to the AHL, which is a good sign since it took him 6 years to figure out he needed to fire Lefebvre. But the way he's handled Poehling and Primeau makes me think he's getting worse at development instead of better.

That said, while the plan is clearly about the future, so it's all about fingers crossed and hope cause unless we win the 1st OA in the lottery or somehow trade for it, we won't likely ever have that Crosby, McDavid, etc... level can't miss prospect even if you were the worse development team in the NHL. With Price, Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, etc.. outside of long term injuries, we just are stuck in limbo as we won't be at the bottom like the sens and others and clearly aren't good enough to contend with TB, Boston, etc..

So maybe we get lucky and hit on several prospects, with the way we develop I'm not betting on it and it's not like Timmins has been hitting it out of the park for years now. I think they made a big mistake in trading Sergachev for such a candy ass player but when your GM can't evaluate talent it's not a surprise there.

What I hope is that we see something like Suzuki, Kotka, Poehling, Olofsson or Evans or whoever as the 1-2-3-4 centers in a few years if they can live up to their ceilings. So if Kotka can turn into a consistent 50, 60, 70 pt player then we should be happy with the pick even though others might have been a better choice. If that happens and we hit on several of Romanov, Norlinder, Struble, Harris, Juulsen, Brook, Fleury, Mete, Fairbrother, and if Primeau can be anywhere near Price even now (not Prime Price) then it's certainly a good start.

But a lot of ifs and maybes there. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out as I just don't see Molson, MB, Timmins, going anywhere any time soon at least. Maybe in 2 years if the shit continues to hit the fan when we have all our big UFA's in Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault.

Very well said, you have to wonder how long this gong show can go on, but it appears to have no end in sight with regards to management. Molson is buddies with Bergy. Bergy is best buds with Timmins and the gang. I don't think little Geoffy can make a tough decision, he's never had to his entire life.

 

[Habs]

You really think he peaked at 18? What a joke

I've seen this too many times. Hudon was the next sniper, Leks was the next Koivu, Poehling was a sure thing after his 3 goal game last year. Then there was the russian superstar that started this downfall of drafting, Kostitsyn. He was going to really help us for years down the road. Do I think he peaked at 18? No. Do I think he'll ever warrant burning a #3 pick when 2 other franchise players were sitting there? No. If you want a 3rd line C with your top pick , fantastic, way to set the bar low. I don't think he's more than that, even at 18. I think his dad did an amazing job of sheltering him, insulating him and giving him crucial minutes for the draft.

 

[montreal]

I feel everyone on Montreal is being shipped. With so many expiring contracts.. now may be the time to rebuild.. a very good plan by Bergevin and co if This is truly what's happening. With this year 1st-10th pick.. should be set up for the next 3-8 years hahahaha

I don't think it's the plan, although it could work out that way, as who knows if Tatar, Petry, will re-sign if we miss the playoffs again and if so how that impacts players like Price, Weber who by then will be looking at the backend of their careers especially Weber since goalies can at times play longer. We'll just have to see what happens next year and how that impacts things after that.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don’t really care about is production has much has I like him to impact and drive the play... McCarron had like 24pts in like 25 games and that was it...
11pts 0 goals, mostly secondary assit, isn’t impressive regardless of age when you consider that he as already played 1.5 season in the NHL where he show no progression.
Tkachuk having a impact in the NHL
Hayton had 5pts in 5 game in the AHL 4 in 17 in the NHL.
Zadina 51pts in 80g in the AHL and 15 in 28 in the NHL.
Hughes is 54pts in 67 games in the NHL
Sandin...There are plenty of guys having success or that have shown more dominance or progression in the past years...

So you're impressed with Hayton and Zadina's production and not KK's why exactly?

 

[sharks9]

I've seen this too many times. Hudon was the next sniper, Leks was the next Koivu, Poehling was a sure thing after his 3 goal game last year. Then there was the russian superstar that started this downfall of drafting, Kostitsyn. He was going to really help us for years down the road. Do I think he peaked at 18? No. Do I think he'll ever warrant burning a #3 pick when 2 other franchise players were sitting there? No. If you want a 3rd line C with your top pick , fantastic, way to set the bar low. I don't think he's more than that, even at 18. I think his dad did an amazing job of sheltering him, insulating him and giving him crucial minutes for the draft.

So because a 5th-rounder didn't pan out, a late 2nd is a very good 3rd-liner, and a late 1st is still developing we should assume Kotkaniemi has peaked? That doesn't make any sense. Just because some past prospects didn't work out doesn't mean future ones won't.

Hughes looks great sure, but Tkachuk doesn't look like a franchise player right now. Most player's from KK's draft haven't even played a game in the NHL anyways or they haven't done as well in the AHL as he's doing right now. Some people need to chill and let him develop. Limiting his ceiling to a 3C, which he already was last year, is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Habs]

So because a 5th-rounder didn't pan out, a late 2nd is a very good 3rd-liner, and a late 1st is still developing we should assume Kotkaniemi has peaked? That doesn't make any sense. Just because some past prospects didn't work out doesn't mean future ones won't.

Hughes looks great sure, but Tkachuk doesn't look like a franchise player right now. Most player's from KK's draft haven't even played a game in the NHL anyways or they haven't done as well in the AHL as he's doing right now. Some people need to chill and let him develop. Limiting his ceiling to a 3C, which he already was last year, is absolutely ridiculous.

the Tkachuk that went to the allstar game his second year , is on pace for another 20 goals , 120 pim, isn’t looking like a franchise player ? But JK does with his ahl assists .... hmmmm ok bud. Guess this isn’t going anywhere but infractions if I keep debating a dilusional Hab fan like yourself.

 

[calder candidate]

So you're impressed with Hayton and Zadina's production and not KK's why exactly?

Not saying that I’m impressed with the all the other just pointing out that that KK production isn’t really special... lot of prospect are pointing up some pts in the AHL has D+2 players.

 

[Cubebrick]

the Tkachuk that went to the allstar game his second year , is on pace for another 20 goals , 120 pim, isn’t looking like a franchise player ? But JK does with his ahl assists .... hmmmm ok bud. Guess this isn’t going anywhere but infractions if I keep debating a dilusional Hab fan like yourself.

Tkachuk is a good player but if 20 goals & 120 PIM screams franchise player to you then perhaps you should review your standards.

 

[montreal]

Not saying that I’m impressed with the all the other just pointing out that that KK production isn’t really special... lot of prospect are pointing up some pts in the AHL has D+2 players.

only 6 U-20 players have more points then Kotka in the AHL this year and that's with most playing 4 times more games. Sandin is the only one above a .45 ppg (not that i expect Kotka to keep up the pace of an assist per game)

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2019-2020

 

[CHfan1]

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Looks like kk got corona

That said I have 100% confidence in our AHL coaching staff and developement program (not)

 

[calder candidate]

only 6 U-20 players have more points then Kotka in the AHL this year and that's with most playing 4 times more games. Sandin is the only one above a .45 ppg (not that i expect Kotka to keep up the pace of an assist per game)
Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2019-2020

Most players can’t even play in the AHL because they are in the CHL than you have player in the NCAA or under contract in Euro ligue... the best U20 aren’t in the AHL, how many U20 player are there in the AHL this years? being amongst the best U20 isn’t very significant especially when you see how he is raking up these point, It isn’t nothing but he has to be one of the least dominant PPG performance I have seen, I hope he keep up but in is cases I more worry about how he is getting point vs. how many he is getting.