Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - AHL edition

[ProspectsFanatic]

Wait, so when Mrb1p referred to top tier production, you understood it as being top tier production for the league and not his age group ?

You feel this is a strong argument ? Why are you comparing him a 20 year old lmao.

His numbers werent good for his age, they were fantastic. He has the 7th or 8th best U18 season in Liiga history.

Being ppg in the AHL at 19 is producing at Eric Staal/Patrice Bergeron levels. It's not a common thing. If you watched the games, you'd see his numbers reflect his play, only he's been unlucky as far as goals go, but he could've had a number of them.

Just lol at thinking the league you are playing in relative to your age is relevant, your score points or you don't. Top tier 70 points even when a kid plays with men or bust.

 

[SamHabsFan]

I'm happy he's ppg, but going 11 straight games in the AHL without a goal, and going pointless in over 1/3 of your games in the AHL isn't really "killing it" imo.

I am guessing you did not watch the game though, since he was sent down, Laval got their #1 center, his line is dominating every other shift. Yeah he did not score but it is not like he is not having his chances. I don't know what else he could do to earn the ''he's killing'' talk. The only thing I was not happy about is that he took a lot of bad penalties.

 

[Habs]

Lots of excuses for the #3 overall pick not scoring in the AHL in this thread. The odds are suggesting they are going to have another Timmins gemstone here, along with Poehling. Good lord we could have had Hughes or Tkachuk, and we are left wondering if JK is going to score a goal.

I hope the rink goes empty and people protest this stupid franchise.

 

[Sand94]

Wait, so when Mrb1p referred to top tier production, you understood it as being top tier production for the league and not his age group ?

You feel this is a strong argument ? Why are you comparing him a 20 year old lmao.

His numbers werent good for his age, they were fantastic. He has the 7th or 8th best U18 season in Liiga history.

Being ppg in the AHL at 19 is producing at Eric Staal/Patrice Bergeron levels. It's not a common thing. If you watched the games, you'd see his numbers reflect his play, only he's been unlucky as far as goals go, but he could've had a number of them.

I do watch the games in Laval actually, I have a subscription to AHL.tv and I'm footsteps away from the Place Bell.

He's looked like any other decent prospect in Laval so far. Nothing otherworldly. He's racked up some very pedestrian secondary assists on the PP and had a couple nice ones as well. I don't ever see him being a step above any other top 6 talent in the AHL. He's not out of place and he can contribute at that level. Is he a driving force to the team? Far from it. All that while being absolutely horrific in the NHL this year leaves me disappointed with our 3rd overall selection.

Especially when players like Tkachuk and Hughes, Svech and Dahlin are tearing it up in the Big Boys league.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I do watch the games in Laval actually, I have a subscription to AHL.tv and I'm footsteps away from the Place Bell.

He's looked like any other decent prospect in Laval so far. Nothing otherworldly. He's racked up some very pedestrian secondary assists on the PP and had a couple nice ones as well. I don't ever see him being a step above any other top 6 talent in the AHL. He's not out of place and he can contribute at that level. Is he a driving force to the team? Far from it. All that while being absolutely horrific in the NHL this year leaves me disappointed with our 3rd overall selection.

Especially when players like Tkachuk and Hughes, Svech and Dahlin are tearing it up in the Big Boys league.

what player has exclusively primary assists? The primary ones he does have have been beauties. A 19 year old at a PPG at 11 games is impressive no matter how you slice it. He had a great year last year as being one of the younger players of all time. There's still a ton of time to develop.

It's understandable to emphasize the bad and trivialize the good because of what the other picks are doing and our drafting history but I still think the potential's there. Most of us wanted KK and we picked him. Very few on here wanted either Tkachuk or Hughes. If we were all screaming for Brady than yeah I'd be ticked but come on, it was really either KK or Zadina on here.

 

[Sand94]

what player has exclusively primary assists? The primary ones he does have have been beauties. A 19 year old at a PPG at 11 games is impressive no matter how you slice it. He had a great year last year as being one of the younger players of all time. There's still a ton of time to develop.

It's understandable to emphasize the bad and trivialize the good because of what the other picks are doing and our drafting history but I still think the potential's there. Most of us wanted KK and we picked him. Very few on here wanted either Tkachuk or Hughes. If we were all screaming for Brady than yeah I'd be ticked but come on, it was really either KK or Zadina on here.

See but I don't care what anyone on here, or on TSN or on RDS thinks. I want the pick to be the right pick at the end of the day. That's why these guys have their jobs. Not to listen to me, you or anyone else and make us happy. It's to be successful when you step up on the podium and pick the right guy.

I emphasize the bad because it is not emphasized enough. Our drafting history and our success stories are abysmal. Simply because our 3RD OVERALL PICK is playing slightly above average in the AHL is not something to be over the moon about. Especially with the way he has been trending overall, not simply in a 11 game sample size in a lower league.

BIG PICTURE: Our draft picks always turn to DUDS and the most recent one (a 3rd overall) took a SIGNIFICANT step back this year. All while players picked after him are cementing themselves as TOP NHL TALENT.

That's why I point out the bad.

I'm fed up with this shit.

 

[Scintillating10]

I've been watching most of the Laval games, and my answer is that no, I'm not concerned.

Whenever looking at the short term, the process should always be more important than the result. What I'm seeing of Kotkaniemi is that his compete level is high, he's playing well in a lot of different situations, and he's generating offense. Those are the things that matter, that will lead to him re-acquiring his confidence, developing good habits, and becoming a better hockey player.

Though the goals are not coming, he is getting several good shots. That they're not going in is, I'm assuming, a result of statistical fluke, and possibly psychology. He might be nervous to score his first goal, that happens, but once he scores 2 or 3 he'll be fine. The stats page says that he has 25 shots on goal in 11 games. That's not an exceptional number, but a decent one, I don't know if they're accurate in the AHL, or if they're including missed shots. He's gone a little wide of the net a few times.

Right now, the sample is small as Kotkaniemi has played 11 games. However, there are 19 games left in the AHL regular season, plus whatever they play in the playoffs if they make it. So whereas the sample is currently small, it should be intermediate by the end of the season, we'll know better.

Circling back though, I'm just thrilled with his compete level and with his ice time. If he keeps that up and stays healthy through the end of the season, I don't care whether he scores 2,7, or 12 goals in the last 19 games.

Thanks for the legit answer.

 

[montreal]

Just lol at thinking the league you are playing in relative to your age is relevant, your score points or you don't. Top tier 70 points even when a kid plays with men or bust.

that doesn't make sense though, so if a 15 year old doesn't score any points in the SHL or Liiga it means he's a bust?

 

[Andrei79]

I do watch the games in Laval actually, I have a subscription to AHL.tv and I'm footsteps away from the Place Bell.

He's looked like any other decent prospect in Laval so far. Nothing otherworldly. He's racked up some very pedestrian secondary assists on the PP and had a couple nice ones as well. I don't ever see him being a step above any other top 6 talent in the AHL. He's not out of place and he can contribute at that level. Is he a driving force to the team? Far from it. All that while being absolutely horrific in the NHL this year leaves me disappointed with our 3rd overall selection.

Especially when players like Tkachuk and Hughes, Svech and Dahlin are tearing it up in the Big Boys league.

Sure you do.

I tuned into the last 3 mins of the game and OT... is this team always this individualistic?

bunch of puck hogs making bad plays after bad plays.... maybe I’m just used to the NHL but holy shit was that terrible.

ouellet literally had the puck behind our own net on a 3 on 3 breakout and managed to turn the puck over on a forecheck..... how does he not just reverse around the boards or make a simple pass.

terrible players all over this team.

Definitely sounds like someone who follows the AHL club.

Don't know why there's been a trend of BSer lately, from the guy who talked about Molson's imaginary sister, to this crap, but no need to make up stuff if you're not happy about the pick. His play in Laval has been excellent, at the top end of what you usually see from 19 year olds in that league. There are other legitimate things you can criticize him about, but the production at other levels and his play since being sent down are just dumb things to build your argument around.

 

[montreal]

Liiga: 0.5 ppg is NOT top tier numbers. Is it good for a 17 year old? Sure, but still not crazy high production.

only 6 U-18 players have scored more points then Kotka in Liiga's history and 2 of them had just 1 more pt. Clearly he's far from Barkov's level who had the best U-18 season in Liiga history and the only U-18 player to ever get more then 40 pts.

Elite Prospects - Liiga Stats All-time season

we'll have to wait and see if he can put up 70 points or not. I'm not sure he can or if he ends up more of a 60 pts player or 50 pts player or worse. It's too early to say, I really like the playmaking and he's got a pretty good shot but he needs to use it more. I'm concerned with the skating a bit, but if it takes him a 3-4 years to get there and say he ends up a consistent 60ish pt player then I would be happy.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

See but I don't care what anyone on here, or on TSN or on RDS thinks. I want the pick to be the right pick at the end of the day. That's why these guys have their jobs. Not to listen to me, you or anyone else and make us happy. It's to be successful when you step up on the podium and pick the right guy.

I emphasize the bad because it is not emphasized enough. Our drafting history and our success stories are abysmal. Simply because our 3RD OVERALL PICK is playing slightly above average in the AHL is not something to be over the moon about. Especially with the way he has been trending overall, not simply in a 11 game sample size in a lower league.

BIG PICTURE: Our draft picks always turn to DUDS and the most recent one (a 3rd overall) took a SIGNIFICANT step back this year. All while players picked after him are cementing themselves as TOP NHL TALENT.

That's why I point out the bad.

I'm fed up with this shit.

He had a great rookie year as a kid who wasn't even pegged to be an NHLer last year. He's trending very good. You make 3rd overall picks sound like guaranteed franchise players. 19 year olds don't go PPG in the AHL.

It's BS to post hoc diss a pick that most were fine with and only a year and a half after it's happened. No one's over the moon.

The bad isn't emphasized enough? Wow you're clearly not on this board enough. You'll get your fill soon enough. Trust me.

 

[Habs Icing]

I am guessing you did not watch the game though, since he was sent down, Laval got their #1 center, his line is dominating every other shift. Yeah he did not score but it is not like he is not having his chances. I don't know what else he could do to earn the ''he's killing'' talk. The only thing I was not happy about is that he took a lot of bad penalties.

I was anxious to see what KK did down in Laval so I watched his first few games. He has 11 points so far. I saw games where he notched 4 of them and I was not impressed. Three of the assists he did nothing except pass the puck to a linemate who made an excellent play to the goal scorer. The 4th point was a nice pass on his part. So I'm reading these reports and I'm wondering if someone isn't biased. Either me or the posters writing these great reviews.

His skating is still atrocious even though he does look a little better but then it is the AHL and he should look better down there. His defensive play is still non-existent. I wonder if he's the one who is leeching off Hudon (and Evans). Hudon was doing just fine before KK came along.

Like I said I watched his first few games and then tuned out. I'll revisit him next year. Hopefully in the meantime, Bouchard will have the kid work on correcting his numerous shortcomings.

 

[Frank Drebin]

only 6 U-18 players have scored more points then Kotka in Liiga's history and 2 of them had just 1 more pt.

Now I like the kid and I think he has potential, but how much stock can you put into a single 17 year old season when the head coach was his father, who happened to get fired the following year?

 

[Andrei79]

I was anxious to see what KK did down in Laval so I watched his first few games. He has 11 points so far. I saw games where he notched 4 of them and I was not impressed. Three of the assists he did nothing except pass the puck to a linemate who made an excellent play to the goal scorer. The 4th point was a nice pass on his part. So I'm reading these reports and I'm wondering if someone isn't biased. Either me or the posters writing these great reviews.

His skating is still atrocious even though he does look a little better but then it is the AHL and he should look better down there. His defensive play is still non-existent. I wonder if he's the one who is leeching off Hudon (and Evans). Hudon was doing just fine before KK came along.

Like I said I watched his first few games and then tuned out. I'll revisit him next year. Hopefully in the meantime, Bouchard will have the kid work on correcting his numerous shortcomings.

You watched them on TV ?

 

[swimmer77]

I'll have to watch some AHL games thru AHL.TV to see how the kid is doing. Not losing hope for him at all. I thought he played some good games at the NHL level despite Bambiism. Players, IMHO, go through another adjustment their second years. They get more respected in the league the second year.

I am more concerned about the Habs' stunting his growth than Kotka stunting his own growth. He's just a kid so we'll see what happens. Hoping for the best because I am a big fan of his disposition on the ice and playmaking ability.

 

[Habs Icing]

You watched them on TV ?

On my computer. I threw my TV away years ago.

 

[Andrei79]

On my computer. I threw my TV away years ago.

I was just wondering. Only two games have been televised and I've noticed a few posters trip up on their lies lately.

You're right about his 4 point game not being that impressive, as he was much better in the PP than EV. But his defensive game certainly hasn't been non existent and he's been getting better every game. He's pretty much been one of the best forwards, or second best when Evans is there. Hudon is good, but he's often waiting for the big shot, both guys are helping each other.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I was anxious to see what KK did down in Laval so I watched his first few games. He has 11 points so far. I saw games where he notched 4 of them and I was not impressed. Three of the assists he did nothing except pass the puck to a linemate who made an excellent play to the goal scorer. The 4th point was a nice pass on his part. So I'm reading these reports and I'm wondering if someone isn't biased. Either me or the posters writing these great reviews.

His skating is still atrocious even though he does look a little better but then it is the AHL and he should look better down there. His defensive play is still non-existent. I wonder if he's the one who is leeching off Hudon (and Evans). Hudon was doing just fine before KK came along.

Like I said I watched his first few games and then tuned out. I'll revisit him next year. Hopefully in the meantime, Bouchard will have the kid work on correcting his numerous shortcomings.

i've only seen 2 of his Rockets games, but yes, skating still looked bad and he was terrible on the back check. Generally, not noticeable unless you were looking for him.

 

[SamHabsFan]

I was anxious to see what KK did down in Laval so I watched his first few games. He has 11 points so far. I saw games where he notched 4 of them and I was not impressed. Three of the assists he did nothing except pass the puck to a linemate who made an excellent play to the goal scorer. The 4th point was a nice pass on his part. So I'm reading these reports and I'm wondering if someone isn't biased. Either me or the posters writing these great reviews.

His skating is still atrocious even though he does look a little better but then it is the AHL and he should look better down there. His defensive play is still non-existent. I wonder if he's the one who is leeching off Hudon (and Evans). Hudon was doing just fine before KK came along.

Like I said I watched his first few games and then tuned out. I'll revisit him next year. Hopefully in the meantime, Bouchard will have the kid work on correcting his numerous shortcomings.

I mean, did you expect his skating to change juste by switching leagues? those things has to be adjusted during summer.
What I am saying is, when you watch complete games you see some high IQ passes that you don't necessarily see in the game highlights. And that for me is a very good sign of his potential. He is Laval first line center, playing 15 to 20 mins a night and on the PP, of course he is gonna have secondary assists, who doesnt? The thing is, he now has some responsabilities beeing the first line center of this team and he did not disapoint. What were you expecting? 2ppg?

The real problem is, he was a 3rd overall, so expectations were so high, it was almost impossible to achieve those. Names like Barkov and kopitar were thrown out there so fast, the kid just turned 18 at that time lol. If we picked this guy somewhere between 5th and 10th, it would be a completely different story, so that is on Timmins for picking for need instead of BPA. But, what is done is done so the team has to maximize his potential, and from what I see as a 19 years old in the AHL, he absolutely has potential to be a top 6 center in the NHL, floor is quite high as well, but we can't expect a surefire bonafide center just because he is picked 3rd in the draft.

This summer is going to be very important for him, I would be thrilled if he could stick to North America and train with the best. But I won't be disappointed at all to see him start the year in Laval, we knew he was a project when he was drafted, he still is. The good thing is the Canadiens are nowhere near contending and they don't really need him to be a star center right away, so he has time to develop correctly.

In my opinion Bergevin should try to make moves to time the contending window when KK is ready (2-3 years), and in the final years of Weber/Price/Petry careers, but that is an other story.

 

[Michoulicious]

Kotkaniemi-Ylonen is going to be interesting.

 

[Habs Icing]

I was just wondering. Only two games have been televised and I've noticed a few posters trip up on their lies lately.

You're right about his 4 point game not being that impressive, as he was much better in the PP than EV. But his defensive game certainly hasn't been non existent and he's been getting better every game. He's pretty much been one of the best forwards, or second best when Evans is there. Hudon is good, but he's often waiting for the big shot, both guys are helping each other.

It wasn't his four point game. I watched his first three or three of his first four games. It was three games, anyway and he scored 4 points in those three games. I stopped watching so I don't know what he did after that but those three games convinced me he needs at least next year to play in Laval. How is he doing now that Hudon and Evans are not there? I hope I'm wrong but KK looks like another Timmins' high draft pick (i.e. Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk).

 

[Habs Icing]

I mean, did you expect his skating to change juste by switching leagues? those things has to be adjusted during summer.
What I am saying is, when you watch complete games you see some high IQ passes that you don't necessarily see in the game highlights. And that for me is a very good sign of his potential. He is Laval first line center, playing 15 to 20 mins a night and on the PP, of course he is gonna have secondary assists, who doesnt? The thing is, he now has some responsabilities beeing the first line center of this team and he did not disapoint. What were you expecting? 2ppg?

The real problem is, he was a 3rd overall, so expectations were so high, it was almost impossible to achieve those. Names like Barkov and kopitar were thrown out there so fast, the kid just turned 18 at that time lol. If we picked this guy somewhere between 5th and 10th, it would be a completely different story, so that is on Timmins for picking for need instead of BPA. But, what is done is done so the team has to maximize his potential, and from what I see as a 19 years old in the AHL, he absolutely has potential to be a top 6 center in the NHL, floor is quite high as well, but we can't expect a surefire bonafide center just because he is picked 3rd in the draft.

This summer is going to be very important for him, I would be thrilled if he could stick to North America and train with the best. But I won't be disappointed at all to see him start the year in Laval, we knew he was a project when he was drafted, he still is. The good thing is the Canadiens are nowhere near contending and they don't really need him to be a star center right away, so he has time to develop correctly.

In my opinion Bergevin should try to make moves to time the contending window when KK is ready (2-3 years), and in the final years of Weber/Price/Petry careers, but that is an other story.

I didn't expect his skating to get better but I did expect it to look better since all skaters in the AHL aren't elite. He looked a little faster (to be expected) but he was still fumbling about. And I didn't watch highlights. I saw three of his games down there and his high IQ passes as you called them did not impress me. He has holes in his game that are so huge you can drive the whole American tank division through them.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Kotkaniemi-Ylonen is going to be interesting.

I know nothing about Ylonen so I'm curious if you're saying this for any reason other than that they're both Finns?

 

[lamp9post]

I know nothing about Ylonen so I'm curious if you're saying this for any reason other than that they're both Finns?

I'm guessing it has more to with Ylonen being listed as one of our top forward prospects.

 

[Michoulicious]

I know nothing about Ylonen so I'm curious if you're saying this for any reason other than that they're both Finns?

I'd say timing is perfect for Ylonen to come in Laval since he has the perfect player to help him get acclimated in Kotkaniemi (same age, same language, etc)... There are good chances Kotkaniemi won't start in Laval next year, so that window of opportunity is pretty much now.

Also, Kotkaniemi is expected to be a 2-way playmaking C with size in the NHL that should be able to play the cycle game. Ylonen is a LW that is excellent in the cycle game with his sharp turns and his capacity to play with possession in tight. Add to that a shooter that can get open on the right side (Caufield?) or RW with size and a shot that can cycle as well (Armia? Still the Finn connection), and I think you have interesting combinations for the future.

Often, there are "duos" at forward in the NHL (ex: getzlaf-perry, kucherov-point, panarin-kane, crosby-kunitz, etc) that have complimentary style of play and that developed great chemistry through the years. I think Kotkaniemi-Ylonen certainly has the potential to maybe become that for the reasons I listed, mainly the complimentary style of play, but also language/origin/age/etc factor.

I don't think it's a too outlandish proposition. Am I wrong?