Confirmed with Link: Jeremy Davies Signs ELC

[Zippy316]

We shall see with Smith and Davies. I personally think Butcher is a bad fit with our defense

Butcher's issues are his limitations (size and agility). If he was 6'2" and quicker, he'd be a top pairing defender.

He's never going to be a top pairing guy because of those limitations, but he can be a quality defender with a defensive partner who has some size to him and is a good all-around player. Problem is all of the Devils defenders are either small (Greene, Vatanen), can be bullied a bit physically (Vatanen, Severson), or just not very good defenders.

It's why he worked so well with Lovejoy because Lovejoy was just a simple, smart defender. He knew how to cover for Butcher, has good positional/situational awareness, and didn't make too many egregious errors that would expose Butcher's weaknesses.

In all honesty, Davies seems like he is pretty physical. I wouldn't be surprised to see him work well with Butcher if he's able to translate that to the NHL level.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Butcher's issues are his limitations (size and agility). If he was 6'2" and quicker, he'd be a top pairing defender.

He's never going to be a top pairing guy because of those limitations, but he can be a quality defender with a defensive partner who has some size to him and is a good all-around player. Problem is all of the Devils defenders are either small (Greene, Vatanen), can be bullied a bit physically (Vatanen, Severson), or just not very good defenders.

It's why he worked so well with Lovejoy because Lovejoy was just a simple, smart defender. He knew how to cover for Butcher, has good positional/situational awareness, and didn't make too many egregious errors that would expose Butcher's weaknesses.

In all honesty, Davies seems like he is pretty physical. I wouldn't be surprised to see him work well with Butcher if he's able to translate that to the NHL level.

I just think Butcher is worth more to the league than he is to us. We have a crop of middle pair dmen

 

[Nubmer6]

I just think Butcher is worth more to the league than he is to us. We have a crop of middle pair dmen

I like Butcher but for the right return I have to agree (if Davies pans out). LD is the only real extra depth we have to trade away.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Interesting debate between @Hischier and Hughes and @Zippy316 and I agree with both on certain aspects. I would say you absolutely draft defensive defensemen. Watching the Eastern Conference finals, I would say the best D on Carolina throughout the playoffs were Jake Slavin and Brett Pesce, both mid-round picks as defensive defensemen. The best D on Boston throughout the playoffs has been Brandon Carlo, drafted in the second round as a defensive defenseman. The beauty of all of these players is that none of them were first-round picks, due perhaps to the overemphasis on elite puck movers in many NHL front offices.

In 2015, of course it was understandable that Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski and Chabot were drafted ahead of Carlo. But Jacob Larsson and Gabriel Carlsson? I remember thinking it was just ridiculous that those guys were taken with Carlo still on the board. You can count on it happening again this year -- some analytic-blinded team will take Honka with Korczak and McCarthy still on the board, and years later we will laugh about it.

As far as Jeremy Davies goes (and this is his thread, after all), he was simply an amazing pick in the 7th round. Maybe the Devils will find another similar gem in the 6th/7th rounds this year with a Mike Koster. Certainly, with 6 picks between #34 and #96 this year, the Devils will come away with several defensemen.

 

[Zippy316]

Interesting debate between @Hischier and Hughes and @Zippy316 and I agree with both on certain aspects. I would say you absolutely draft defensive defensemen. Watching the Eastern Conference finals, I would say the best D on Carolina throughout the playoffs were Jake Slavin and Brett Pesce, both mid-round picks as defensive defensemen. The best D on Boston throughout the playoffs has been Brandon Carlo, drafted in the second round as a defensive defenseman. The beauty of all of these players is that none of them were first-round picks, due perhaps to the overemphasis on elite puck movers in many NHL front offices.

In 2015, of course it was understandable that Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski and Chabot were drafted ahead of Carlo. But Jacob Larsson and Gabriel Carlsson? I remember thinking it was just ridiculous that those guys were taken with Carlo still on the board. You can count on it happening again this year -- some analytic-blinded team will take Honka with Korczak and McCarthy still on the board, and years later we will laugh about it.

As far as Jeremy Davies goes (and this is his thread, after all), he was simply an amazing pick in the 7th round. Maybe the Devils will find another similar gem in the 6th/7th rounds this year with a Mike Koster. Certainly, with 6 picks between #34 and #96 this year, the Devils will come away with several defensemen.

Good point. I guess the idea of defensive defenders you draft in the earlier rounds has shifted from the plodding, physical types to guys who skate well and have the gap control and defensive awareness that you can't teach. When you watch the guys you mention like Slavin, Pesce, and Carlo, they seem to effortlessly manage to mitigate things defensively by just shrewd defensive play.

But again, the thing with Slavin, Pesce, and Carlo is they have the size to not get pushed around which helps tremendously. Gabriel Carlsson strikes me as a guy in the similar to the above three moreso Carlo, but when you draft for that type of skill set, you're hoping the rest of their game continues to evolve so they can handle top pairing or top-four minutes. Mueller is probably a good example of a player who had a similar skill set but his puck skills and decision making never developed as hoped.

Xavier Bernard is likely the Devils attempt at one of those guys. Hasn't panned out as hoped so far though.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Good point. I guess the idea of defensive defenders you draft in the earlier rounds has shifted from the plodding, physical types to guys who skate well and have the gap control and defensive awareness that you can't teach. When you watch the guys you mention like Slavin, Pesce, and Carlo, they seem to effortlessly manage to mitigate things defensively by just shrewd defensive play.

But again, the thing with Slavin, Pesce, and Carlo is they have the size to not get pushed around which helps tremendously. Gabriel Carlsson strikes me as a guy in the similar to the above three moreso Carlo, but when you draft for that type of skill set, you're hoping the rest of their game continues to evolve so they can handle top pairing or top-four minutes. Mueller is probably a good example of a player who had a similar skill set but his puck skills and decision making never developed as hoped.

Xavier Bernard is likely the Devils attempt at one of those guys. Hasn't panned out as hoped so far though.

What I like about the Bernard pick more than Bernard himself is the idea that Shero has realized the Devils' need for some physical, defensive-minded guys on the blueline. I do think Bernard can make the NHL as a 6/7 depth guy, which is not a terrible thing for a 4th round pick.

In the 2019, there are a few players who have the skating/physicality/defensive awareness combo to blossom into the next generation of Slavin/Pesce/Carlo-types. Matthew Robertson would certainly be at the top of this list -- he is a terrific skater, and has good offensive tools, as well. But I also keep mentioning Kaeden Korczak and Case McCarthy.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

In all the draft lotto nonsense I forgot about Davies.

Future is bright.

Between Hughes/Kakko, Nico getting another year under his belt, Davies, Smith, Boqvist; there is a lot of reason to be legitimately excited.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Between Hughes/Kakko, Nico getting another year under his belt, Davies, Smith, Boqvist; there is a lot of reason to be legitimately excited.

I agree with this completely, except we can just put that slash away and call it "Jack Hughes". Even with all the young talent, they keys to the Devils 2019-20 season to me are thus:

1)Blackwood takes a step forwards in net to further establish himself as a quality NHL netminder
2)Shero acquires a top-4 D this off-season, preferably one who can play physically and shut down the opposition
3)Taylor Hall stays healthy

None of these necessities are unrealistic expectations, and if they all occur the Devils should bounce back into the playoff picture, especially with another step forwards by Nico -- and Hughes singlehandedly turning the Devils 2C from a 30-40 point position to a 50-60 point position.

 

[Nubmer6]

None of these necessities are unrealistic expectations, and if they all occur the Devils should bounce back into the playoff picture, especially with another step forwards by Nico -- and Hughes singlehandedly turning the Devils 2C from a 30-40 point position to a 50-60 point position.

But you're replacing a 45-55 point MarJo (when healthy) with a 30-40 point Zacha unless we find another top 6 winger.

 

[StevenToddIves]

But you're replacing a 45-55 point MarJo (when healthy) with a 30-40 point Zacha unless we find another top 6 winger.

Johansson had 41 points for the Devils in 77 games. I'd say with some confidence that Zacha can do better than that if you give him a full season playing with Hughes on the second line.

I do agree that I would like the Devils to acquire a top-6 RW this off-season. If the cost is too high for a Zucker or Kapanen, I'd even be okay with an under-the-radar, low-cost signing of a Brett Connolly.

 

[Nubmer6]

Johansson had 41 points for the Devils in 77 games. I'd say with some confidence that Zacha can do better than that if you give him a full season playing with Hughes on the second line.

I do agree that I would like the Devils to acquire a top-6 RW this off-season. If the cost is too high for a Zucker or Kapanen, I'd even be okay with an under-the-radar, low-cost signing of a Brett Connolly.

Zacha would actually have to shoot the puck

Johansson was no slouch with zone entries,but didn't have the vision that Hughes probably already has. I kind of like having Palmieri on Hughes' right. Hughes' backhand passing is just insane. He'll find Palms if there's any crack at all in coverage. I'm also fine with keeping Bratt on the right if we only manage to find a LW.

Is there ANY chance Boqvist is ready for top 6?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I agree with this completely, except we can just put that slash away and call it "Jack Hughes". Even with all the young talent, they keys to the Devils 2019-20 season to me are thus:

1)Blackwood takes a step forwards in net to further establish himself as a quality NHL netminder
2)Shero acquires a top-4 D this off-season, preferably one who can play physically and shut down the opposition
3)Taylor Hall stays healthy

None of these necessities are unrealistic expectations, and if they all occur the Devils should bounce back into the playoff picture, especially with another step forwards by Nico -- and Hughes singlehandedly turning the Devils 2C from a 30-40 point position to a 50-60 point position.

I don't disagree, but that can of worms does not need to be opened in yet another thread.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm starting to lean towards to possibility that Davies makes the team and Smith goes back for another year in Juniors.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Zacha would actually have to shoot the puck

Johansson was no slouch with zone entries,but didn't have the vision that Hughes probably already has. I kind of like having Palmieri on Hughes' right. Hughes' backhand passing is just insane. He'll find Palms if there's any crack at all in coverage. I'm also fine with keeping Bratt on the right if we only manage to find a LW.

Is there ANY chance Boqvist is ready for top 6?

Boqvist is offensively ready for the top 6, but his play without the puck could potentially be a source of frustration to the coaching staff. I'd sooner let him begin the season in the AHL and call him up once he rounds out his game and learns the system, maybe around mid-season. There is no doubting that Boqvist's offensive upside is just huge.

I agree with you on pairing Palmieri with Hughes. This would, in my mind, require Ray Shero acquiring a player who could man the right wing alongside Hall and Nico. My preferences, as I've stated on these threads before, would be Jason Zucker or Kasperi Kapanen. My ideal Devils top lines entering 2019-20 would be:

L1: Hall-Hischier-[Zucker/Kapanen]
L2: Zacha-Hughes-Palmieri
L3: Bratt-Zajac-Coleman
L4: Wood-??- [Anderson/Bastian]

Since we're on the topic, I would also love to see the Devils bring back Boyle as the 4C.

 

[Triumph]

I'm starting to lean towards to possibility that Davies makes the team and Smith goes back for another year in Juniors.

Would make no sense. Smith has already won WHL defenseman of the year. There is nothing more for him to accomplish there.

 

[devilsblood]

Would make no sense. Smith has already won WHL defenseman of the year. There is nothing more for him to accomplish there.

Does that mean he is NHL ready? Does that mean he is better then Davies?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Would make no sense. Smith has already won WHL defenseman of the year. There is nothing more for him to accomplish there.

CHL defenseman of the year too.

 

[Nubmer6]

Boqvist is offensively ready for the top 6, but his play without the puck could potentially be a source of frustration to the coaching staff. I'd sooner let him begin the season in the AHL and call him up once he rounds out his game and learns the system, maybe around mid-season. There is no doubting that Boqvist's offensive upside is just huge.

Unfortunately, Amanada Stein tweeted that his agreement with his team in Sweden is NHL or SHL. There's apparently no AHL option.

 

[Triumph]

Does that mean he is NHL ready?

No, but it very heavily implies that he is. He almost made the team this season. Then he was the best defenseman in the WHL and CHL. It's almost impossible to think of a more ready player at a lower level.

Does that mean he is better then Davies?

It doesn't matter. Davies can go to the AHL. Smith can't, and once he's sent down, he can't come back until his team's season is over.

 

[devilsblood]

And there is precedent for guys winning the award and going back for another year of juniors.

Tyson Barrie, Kris Russell, Dion Phaneauf. Nolan Baumgartner. Actually pretty common place.

 

[devilsblood]

CHL defenseman of the year too.

See Tyson Barrie.

 

[devilsblood]

It doesn't matter. Davies can go to the AHL. Smith can't, and once he's sent down, he can't come back until his team's season is over.

So if Davies has a better camp then Smith you don't think it matters? They will just go with the younger guy who didn't play as well?

 

[Triumph]

And there is precedent for guys winning the award and going back for another year of juniors.

Tyson Barrie, Kris Russell, Dion Phaneauf. Nolan Baumgartner. Actually pretty common place.

Dion Phaneuf won it in 2004 - he couldn't go to the NHL the next year because there was a full season lockout. Other than that, I don't really care about precedent - sometimes the best defenseman in the WHL doesn't become a great pro D. The guys you mention did not slide into the NHL. It's expected that Ty Smith will be able to do that.

So if Davies has a better camp then Smith you don't think it matters? They will just go with the younger guy who didn't play as well?

I don't think it matters, no. Do you think it's an accident that teams often prioritize players who are eligible for waivers over players who do not?

 

[devilsblood]

Dion Phaneuf won it in 2004 - he couldn't go to the NHL the next year because there was a full season lockout. Other than that, I don't really care about precedent - sometimes the best defenseman in the WHL doesn't become a great pro D. The guys you mention did not slide into the NHL. It's expected that Ty Smith will be able to do that.



I don't think it matters, no. Do you think it's an accident that teams often prioritize players who are eligible for waivers over players who do not?

So the only precedent you care about is the one where there was no NHL option?

And of course it matters if Davies is better out of the gate. You can pretend otherwise, but it matters. And this is not a waiver issue as we do not potentially lose Smith if we send him back to juniors.

 

[Triumph]

So the only precedent you care about is the one where there was no NHL option?

I don't think 'best defenseman in the WHL' is an indicator of future NHL success, full stop. Many of the people who've won this award in the modern era (post 1995) have not gone on to NHL success. It's not just that he won this award. It's that he has been very clearly excellent in the WHL for 2 years running now and almost made the Devils coming out of camp last year. He is presumably better now than he was last year, good enough to make the NHL team.

Furthermore, the fact that you put a guy who couldn't possibly go to the NHL on this list is either disingenuousness or ignorance. You'll never admit the latter, so it has to be the former.

And of course it matters if Davies is better out of the gate. You can pretend otherwise, but it matters. And this is not a waiver issue as we do not potentially lose Smith if we send him back to juniors.

Since you need everything spelled out for you - it's the same allocation issue. If the Devils send Smith down to the WHL, he's done for the year in New Jersey. If they send Davies down to the AHL, they will still be able to call him back up. It makes the decision pretty easy if it's even close.