Proposal: Jeff Petry to the Leafs

[Randy Randerson]

Seeing as how he was diagnosed in September, the scouts were very aware that he had mono though. They knew all about the illness.

right, and Liljegren's stock started falling from "potential #1" to where he got taken at the beginning of his draft year, which started in......?

The "potential #1 pick" narrative was a carryover from the previous year

 

[FerrisRox]

Logan Couture had mono and still got picked 9th...

Yeah, mono is a factor in his slide, but it's not the reason for his slide. Mono causes chronic fatigue, it doesn't cause poor decision making.

 

[FerrisRox]

right, and Liljegren's stock started falling from "potential #1" to where he got taken at the beginning of his draft year, which started in......?

The issue I'm disputing is the notion that somehow scouts were unaware of his illness, which you claimed and is completely untrue. Now you are moving the goalies to make the topic about when his stock started falling which had never been disputed at all.

Why you have completely changed course and somehow think you are still addressing what I was talking about is beyond me.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The issue I'm disputing is the notion that somehow scouts were unaware of his illness, which you claimed that was completely untrue. Now you are moving the goalies to make the topic about when his stock started falling which had never been disputed at all.

Why you have completely changed course and somehow think you are still addressing what I was talking about is beyond me.

I haven't made any suggestion that the scouts were unaware of his illness, you've manufactured that argument

I have not changed course, I've just not let you strawman me

 

[Raymoondo]

This isn't true. It was widely reported at the time that he was battling mono. The scouts, and fans, were aware of his illness. There was no mystery to it at all. The diagnosis came in September.

"what was him and what was the mono" refers to them not knowing which parts of the drop-off in his game were attributable to the mono vs. what was caused by the flaws in his game, doesn't it?

 

[The Great Weal]

Sandin is kinda bleh.

I still think he is a good player, but I would definitely like Alexeyev a lot more.

 

[FerrisRox]

I haven't made any suggestion that the scouts were unaware of his illness, you've manufactured that argument

I have not changed course, I've just not let you strawman me

I mis-read what you said.

I thought you said "what was with him" rather than what was him and what was the illness.

My mistake.

 

[Randy Randerson]

So you didn't say this?

"Liljegren fell hard in his draft year because he wasn't good, but he had also gotten mono and the scouts didn't know what was him and what was the illness."

That's not you claiming the scouts didn't know what was with him and the scouts didn't know what the illness was?

You should contact the admins, cause you've been hacked.

you're misinterpreting what I meant by that, and it seems intentionally so, as @Raymoondo seems to get it

let me clarify, then this little tangent can end. Scouts had a difficult time determining what of Liljegren's poor decision making and slow thinking of the game would survive when the illness was gone, and that affected his final draft position as he was seen as a risk to continue making those mistakes

 

[FerrisRox]

"what was him and what was the mono" refers to them not knowing which parts of the drop-off in his game were attributable to the mono vs. what was caused by the flaws in his game, doesn't it?

Now I understand it. I thought he was saying "what was with him" rather than "what was him." My error.

 

[sansabri]

I still think he is a good player, but I would definitely like Alexeyev a lot more.

The offer is OK if that's the best we can do. I guess I'd rather not trade Petry to TO unless they made an offer we couldn't refuse (no horsies, plz).

 

[The Great Weal]

The offer is OK if that's the best we can do. I guess I'd rather not trade Petry to TO unless they made an offer we couldn't refuse (no horsies, plz).

That's definitely a deal that I would do tbh. Obviously I'd like to get a similar offer from a different team where their 1st is more likely to be earlier, but I would do Sandin+1st for Petry retained.

 

[Randy Randerson]

That's definitely a deal that I would do tbh. Obviously I'd like to get a similar offer from a different team where their 1st is more likely to be earlier, but I would do Sandin+1st for Petry retained.

seeing the feeback from the Habs side as mostly positive on that, I think there's common ground around Sandin to form the basis of a trade. He's something we would much rather give up than Liljegren (because of the need for RHD in Toronto) and Kapanen/Johnsson (because those guys will be on the roster in much bigger roles this year when we're trying to compete), and it sounds like he's a guy that the Habs would rather get so win-win

Sandin+2nd with no retention or Sandin + 1st with some retention?

 

[The Great Weal]

seeing the feeback from the Habs side as mostly positive on that, I think there's common ground around Sandin to form the basis of a trade. He's something we would much rather give up than Liljegren (because of the need for RHD in Toronto) and Kapanen/Johnsson (because those guys will be on the roster in much bigger roles this year when we're trying to compete), and it sounds like he's a guy that the Habs would rather get so win-win

Sandin+2nd with no retention or Sandin + 1st with some retention?

Habs should have no issue retaining. They are loaded with cap space.

 

[4thline]

Yeah, mono is a factor in his slide, but it's not the reason for his slide. Mono causes chronic fatigue, it doesn't cause poor decision making.

This made me chuckle.
Fatigue has no impact on high speed mental processing during high activity. Riiiiight.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Habs should have no issue retaining. They are loaded with cap space.

ya that sounds fine to me, I'd pull the trigger from the Leafs side

 

[The3rd]

Yeah, mono is a factor in his slide, but it's not the reason for his slide. Mono causes chronic fatigue, it doesn't cause poor decision making.

So chronic fatigue wouldn't cause poor decision making? I'd say that's a pretty common problem people have when they are tired?

 

[Danny1237]

Petry is a very underrated D, and is certainly capable of forming a legitimate top pair with Rielly. They wouldn't be world beaters or anything like that, but they would be a massive improvement over Rielly/Hainsey pair.

The problem becomes Petry's salary if there isn't salary moving back, as well as Montreal literally not having enough bodies to play D.

What would it cost if Zaitsev was going back the other way? Assuming the Leafs would have to increase the offer for Montreal to take back money.

It's a hard deal to make within the division, and I think Montreal would have to see themselves as being in a full on re-build to do it, but Petry is the kind of player that makes sense for Toronto.

 

[sansabri]

Petry is a very underrated D, and is certainly capable of forming a legitimate top pair with Rielly. They wouldn't be world beaters or anything like that, but they would be a massive improvement over Rielly/Hainsey pair.

The problem becomes Petry's salary if there isn't salary moving back, as well as Montreal literally not having enough bodies to play D.

What would it cost if Zaitsev was going back the other way? Assuming the Leafs would have to increase the offer for Montreal to take back money.

It's a hard deal to make within the division, and I think Montreal would have to see themselves as being in a full on re-build to do it, but Petry is the kind of player that makes sense for Toronto.

No. We're not touching that contract.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Petry is a very underrated D, and is certainly capable of forming a legitimate top pair with Rielly. They wouldn't be world beaters or anything like that, but they would be a massive improvement over Rielly/Hainsey pair.

The problem becomes Petry's salary if there isn't salary moving back, as well as Montreal literally not having enough bodies to play D.

What would it cost if Zaitsev was going back the other way? Assuming the Leafs would have to increase the offer for Montreal to take back money.

It's a hard deal to make within the division, and I think Montreal would have to see themselves as being in a full on re-build to do it, but Petry is the kind of player that makes sense for Toronto.

not interested in treating Zaitsev as a cap dump at this point, his performance in his rookie year was value at his cap hit and with the myriad of health issues he faced last year (concussion, broken foot, flu that was bad enough to make him lose weight) I think there's reason to think he has a really good shot at bouncing back

that said, Toronto can fit Petry's salary in, might have to move Gardiner for futures somewhere but that's fine

 

[Danny1237]

not interested in treating Zaitsev as a cap dump at this point, his performance in his rookie year was value at his cap hit and with the myriad of health issues he faced last year (concussion, broken foot, flu that was bad enough to make him lose weight) I think there's reason to think he has a really good shot at bouncing back

that said, Toronto can fit Petry's salary in, might have to move Gardiner for futures somewhere but that's fine

I would agree with that. I am much less bullish on Zaitsev long term. His first year was not nearly as good as he got credit for, and while I think he bounced back, I think he's a good #5 type at best. His skill set is there, but the way he hesitates constantly stops him from doing anything with pace. I think right now there are teams that would also bet on him bouncing back, so moving him now wouldn't be as hard as if his bounce back season is still underwhelming.

Chances are there aren't trades out there that make sense, and he could bounce back and actually create value, I just really don't think he is worth the financial commitment, and I don't think he ever will be.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I would agree with that. I am much less bullish on Zaitsev long term. His first year was not nearly as good as he got credit for, and while I think he bounced back, I think he's a good #5 type at best. His skill set is there, but the way he hesitates constantly stops him from doing anything with pace. I think right now there are teams that would also bet on him bouncing back, so moving him now wouldn't be as hard as if his bounce back season is still underwhelming.

Chances are there aren't trades out there that make sense, and he could bounce back and actually create value, I just really don't think he is worth the financial commitment, and I don't think he ever will be.

will disagree on the first year, his results were just under par and he was in the #2D role for most of that year. He's not a top pairing defender despite being used that way out of necessity, but I believe he would be fine as a 2nd pairing dman. I think his offense alone elevates him to 2nd pairing honestly, and I'm fine with the Leafs taking the risk on that. I don't think he got a 7 year contract at high end 2nd pairing money out of Lou Lamariello without the organization believing he was going to perform at that level

Dermott I think is a good bet as a guy who will be able to carry a 2nd pairing too, so if things go right on that front then Zaitsev will be a bit sheltered by his partner

 

[Ricky Bobby]

not interested in treating Zaitsev as a cap dump at this point, his performance in his rookie year was value at his cap hit and with the myriad of health issues he faced last year (concussion, broken foot, flu that was bad enough to make him lose weight) I think there's reason to think he has a really good shot at bouncing back

that said, Toronto can fit Petry's salary in, might have to move Gardiner for futures somewhere but that's fine

Zaitsev definitely isn't a cap dump. He simply had a bad injury plagued season and Babcock due to lack of options played him in a role that didn't give him a chance to look as good. Zaitsev played almost 3 minutes a game on the PK and almost no time on the PP. 5 on 5 he finished as a +8.

Zaitsev is signed for 4.5 per year on a deal that takes him all the way through his prime years (till 32). 4.5M for a Dman doesn't buy nearly what people think it does. That's Cole, Kulikov, Ericsson, Alzner, De Haan, Russell type money in the free agent market. I'd bet on Zaitsev being more valuable than any of those guys.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Paul Byron? Wonder what's the point you're trying to make here.

If you have lots as was stated, and they can do what Brown can do, why do you have the problem with GF?

 

[Hostile Offer]

If you have lots as was stated, and they can do what Brown can do, why do you have the problem with GF?

Because of the lack of offensively talented centres and puck moving dmen. Connor Brown is neither.

 

[firstemperor]

1st+Sandin is in the ballpark, on the high side of it but not ridiculous

Too rich for me. Maybe if Petry was younger. That would be a fleecing for the Habs, relative to what a younger and arguably, more new-age player like Vatanen got, and Hamonic- to a lesser extent. In Vatanen's case, I really wanted him in particular after I saw his performance in the Ducks WCF run 2 years back. Ducks were my west team at the time- he had a underwhelming regular season and his game took a step above when it mattered- played above his size too.

Two 1st rounders for Petry, at 30 years old and no discount cap-wise on a team that needs to fill out the roster with efficient contracts at this point is not ideal.

Also, there's some belief that Sandin can shift over to the right side easier, even though he's play exclusively left. It has more to do with play-style than deployment though.