Player Discussion Jean-Gabriel Pageau

[Samsquanch]

for whatever reason if he doesn't sign here I see him as a potential Bruin

God damn... I can totally picture that as well... And it feels like it would be a great fit too, unfortunately..

 

[SensFanInBoston]

I like the way JGP plays and he is a great fit for a team that has young unestablished centers that project above his abilities. He would be a good fit for the Sens IF he were to agree to a 3 year team deal (without any trade protection). Somewhere in the 4.5-5 million dollar price range. All that being said, I would move him ASAP for the following:

• I don't think he would sign a short term deal.
• Sens shouldn't really care if they 'suffer' this or next year due to poor center play.
• Sens could get an older player on a 1 or 2 year deal if they needed to in order to help if the young centers have growing pains/injuries (or just keep Tierney - not my favourite though).

If they could do a bundle for him and Ennis for a good Dman (that is ready to step into the NHL and allow Brannstrom to go to the AHL) I would support it. I think waiting until the trade deadline is going to be a mistake.

 

[Micklebot]

God damn... I can totally picture that as well... And it feels like it would be a great fit too, unfortunately..

Good lord... him behind Bergeron and Krejci gives the bruins two elite shutdown centers along with a pretty darn good two way center in Krejci (I know, Bergeron is more than just a shutdown guy). They would be miserable to play against. There are perhaps better groups of centers out there, but you wouldn't be able to take advantage of any matchups against the bruins with those three guys.

 

[stempniaksen]

Bruins already have Charlie Coyle at 3C who was unbelievable in the playoffs last year. I mean, more good players is never a bad thing, but they have holes to shore up at RW and D before they can add a "luxury" like JGP, imo.

For some reason I've been thinking he'd look real good on the Avs. Team with a rock solid top-six and defence who could use a piece or two on their 3rd line to push them over the top.

 

[BonkTastic]

for whatever reason if he doesn't sign here I see him as a potential Bruin

... As tradition dictates.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

No, White is paid based on an assumption that as a young player, he will continue to progress. Pageau will be paid based on the assumption that he will remain a certain level of play.

There contractual situations are so different it's strange to compare them. I guess if you think that White will top out at Pageau's level or close to it, then a fair deal for Pageau would be something close to what White is getting, but I'm fairly sure that White was expected by the team to develop into a better player than Pageau at the time he was signed.

edit: Worth noting, at least imo White has looked a lot better since returning from injury. I think something may have been nagging him early on this year, but that's just speculation.

White did confirm he was injured coming out of preseason and tried to play through it, but it got worse. White was part of the we've turned a corner image the Sens wanted to portray. They also wanted to get what they see is their young future core signed to longer term contracts. White was payed based on projection of what he will become and Pageau will be paid for what he is and what he has done.. This has been explained many times but does not seem to sink in.

 

[JonnyMacSen]

Last place I'd want to see him traded to is Montreal, so trading him to there biggest rival would be great!

 

[TheDebater]

What's uncommon is comparing RFA to UFA deals. If we were talking about two RFA on the same team, or two UFA on the same team, sure thing. But comparing a 27 year old UFA looking for a new deal to a deal signed coming off an ELC doesn't really make a lot of sense for the reasons that have been gone over ad-nauseum.

Not necessarily, I mean yes you are not wrong in principle but if you want to follow historical trend of UFA's getting paid more than comparable RFA's then the reality is their agent will look at what the team gave the RFA and demand that a UFA should get more on a contract.

If Pageau has a better season than White then there is no way that the Pageau camp would not use that as ammo to get paid more, it just does not make sense to ignore it simply due to the technicality of RFA vs UFA.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

for whatever reason if he doesn't sign here I see him as a potential Bruin

Same, Boston was rumoured to be in on him last year.

Plus, Boston seems to really appreciate having PKers that score more goals than other teams PPers.

 

[Micklebot]

Not necessarily, I mean yes you are not wrong in principle but if you want to follow historical trend of UFA's getting paid more than comparable RFA's then the reality is their agent will look at what the team gave the RFA and demand that a UFA should get more on a contract.

If Pageau has a better season than White then there is no way that the Pageau camp would not use that as ammo to get paid more, it just does not make sense to ignore it simply due to the technicality of RFA vs UFA.

UFA's are paid based on what other teams are willing to pay them. Other teams won't look at White to determine the value of a similar UFA to Pageau, I mean, his agent can demand whatever he wants I suppose, it's just not the way things have typically been done when talking about comparables though. It's an apples and oranges comparison, and while you are right, in most cases UFA get paid more, it's not always the case. A UFA like Dzingel with back to back 20 goal seasons and a 56 pts season under his belt vs a guy coming off his ELC with back to back 20 goal seasons are going to be treated differently. The latter will see teams projecting bigger things and overpay now in an attempt to get value in the later portion of the contract. The former will get present day value.

 

[The Lewler]

I hope he gets his homerun deal this time around. He's earned it, and is earning it. *no jinx no injuries*

 

[TheDebater]

UFA's are paid based on what other teams are willing to pay them. Other teams won't look at White to determine the value of a similar UFA to Pageau, I mean, his agent can demand whatever he wants I suppose, it's just not the way things have typically been done when talking about comparables though. It's an apples and oranges comparison, and while you are right, in most cases UFA get paid more, it's not always the case. A UFA like Dzingel with back to back 20 goal seasons and a 56 pts season under his belt vs a guy coming off his ELC with back to back 20 goal seasons are going to be treated differently. The latter will see teams projecting bigger things and overpay now in an attempt to get value in the later portion of the contract. The former will get present day value.

I am basing my comments on the idea of negotiating with Pageau at the moment or before the deadline. Certainly if he hits the market in July it will not matter what a guy like White or any RFA got (to an extent, as every contract signed does have an affect on the market) but rather what other UFA's are signing for or signed for last summer.

If thay happens, Pageau will likely get more on the open market but it is not a guarantee as if he returns to "normal" before the end of the season it might actually affect the contract he signs compared to taking advantage right now while he is on a hot streak and his value is highest.

 

[salomonster]

Trading him at the deadline would bring us back to Ottawa trading away its key players.

Sign him 4x4.

He's part of the leadership group on this team.

 

[Sweatred]

White did confirm he was injured coming out of preseason and tried to play through it, but it got worse. White was part of the we've turned a corner image the Sens wanted to portray. They also wanted to get what they see is their young future core signed to longer term contracts. White was payed based on projection of what he will become and Pageau will be paid for what he is and what he has done.. This has been explained many times but does not seem to sink in.

That is because it isn't factual. Pager will be paid whatever the terms are of the contract he signs. That GM isn't limited to paying Pager based on "what he is and what he has done". He can use any factor he wants to determine what he should offer Pager. Maybe he thinks he is worth $4.5 (based on his player eval) but the only way he can get him to commit to his city vs "a better city" is to offer $6.0/year. Maybe his owner says, here is $8 million, do what you need to make this team better. Maybe the GM is trying to save his job. There are a million different factors that will determine Pager's contract beyond the ~20 pts he had in 2015.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Trading him at the deadline would bring us back to Ottawa trading away its key players.

Sign him 4x4.

He's part of the leadership group on this team.

If you can get him to agree to 4x4 I don't think there would be much opposition.

 

[aragorn]

I think Ottawa needs to sell high on Pageau, just going by what EM said a while back that they would soon have a team of 25 yr old players & younger could mean that Pageau would not be re-signed. We have to expect that Logan Brown & Colin White are going to be two of the centres for any future team, so there are two spots taken.

IMO Norris should be there as well & we could see him in Ottawa at the end of this season or more likely next season, although PD will need to move one if not both of Anisimov & Tierny to make some more room at centre. Chlapik is another guy who can play centre as well as LW, same for Paul, so they have plenty of centres & don't need Anisimov & Tierny. IMO L. Brown, White & Norris are three of the centres of the future for this team & the 4th line centre job could go to Paul, Chlapik or Kastelic. And of course this is not to mention that Pinto plays centre & the potential they could draft a centre in the 2020 or 2021 draft.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Sweatred]

I think Ottawa needs to sell high on Pageau, just going by what EM said a while back that they would soon have a team of 25 yr old players & younger could mean that Pageau would not be re-signed. We have to expect that Logan Brown & Colin White are going to be two of the centres for any future team, so there are two spots taken.

IMO Norris should be there as well & we could see him in Ottawa at the end of this season or more likely next season, although PD will need to move one if not both of Anisimov & Tierny to make some more room at centre. Chlapik is another guy who can play centre as well as LW, same for Paul, so they have plenty of centres & don't need Anisimov & Tierny. IMO L. Brown, White & Norris are three of the centres of the future for this team & the 4th line centre job could go to Paul, Chlapik or Kastelic. And of course this is not to mention that Pinto plays centre & the potential they could draft a centre in the 2020 or 2021 draft.

Hopefully we get a few games here with Brown and White healthy at C in the lineup. If the Sens are set on playing White at C it makes Pager more expandable. They could sell high on Pager and even keep CT in the short term. I’m not convinced White doesn’t move to RW.

If we don’t draft a C and White struggles to carry the 2-3C slot moving Pager could be a mistake. On the other hand, we could draft Byfield, keep Pager and be clogged at C with Brown, White and Norris.

 

[Caeldan]

Hopefully we get a few games here with Brown and White healthy at C in the lineup. If the Sens are set on playing White at C it makes Pager more expandable. They could sell high on Pager and even keep CT in the short term. I’m not convinced White doesn’t move to RW.

If we don’t draft a C and White struggles to carry the 2-3C slot moving Pager could be a mistake. On the other hand, we could draft Byfield, keep Pager and be clogged at C with Brown, White and Norris.

Being clogged at C is never a bad thing. Easier transition to move to wing, as an extreme example look at Team Canada lineups, feels like internationally we ice like 12 centres when the NHL is involved.

We will need to have a few players over the age of 25 if we want to be competitive eventually. Pageau is a core guy imo. He's been deep in the playoffs, he steps it up when it matters, he's a heart and soul guy in addition to being good at hockey.

 

[Sweatred]

Being clogged at C is never a bad thing. Easier transition to move to wing, as an extreme example look at Team Canada lineups, feels like internationally we ice like 12 centres when the NHL is involved.

We will need to have a few players over the age of 25 if we want to be competitive eventually. Pageau is a core guy imo. He's been deep in the playoffs, he steps it up when it matters, he's a heart and soul guy in addition to being good at hockey.

I agree with you - the only downside I can see relates to a possible crunch if Pager AND White slot to the third line around $10 mill combined. It doesn’t leave enough for top end players unless they are on ELC’s.

 

[aragorn]

Hopefully we get a few games here with Brown and White healthy at C in the lineup. If the Sens are set on playing White at C it makes Pager more expandable. They could sell high on Pager and even keep CT in the short term. I’m not convinced White doesn’t move to RW.

If we don’t draft a C and White struggles to carry the 2-3C slot moving Pager could be a mistake. On the other hand, we could draft Byfield, keep Pager and be clogged at C with Brown, White and Norris.

I agree with you with the only exception being White move to RW, although it's possible I think his two way defensive play most likely keeps him at centre but it's possible. While Byfield might be a great top line centre he could also be a great top line LW & have him play with Logan Brown at centre who IMO is a slightly better playmaker. That would be a pretty big top line if we add Batherson on RW & hard to stop.

Byfield - Brown - Batherson

Being clogged at C is never a bad thing. Easier transition to move to wing, as an extreme example look at Team Canada lineups, feels like internationally we ice like 12 centres when the NHL is involved.

We will need to have a few players over the age of 25 if we want to be competitive eventually. Pageau is a core guy imo. He's been deep in the playoffs, he steps it up when it matters, he's a heart and soul guy in addition to being good at hockey.

And he's 27 yrs old right now & the team is rebuilding & will likely be crappy for another few yrs which could take him 30 yrs old plus. I think they will deal him while his value is high & if he doesn't re-sign with the team that traded for him maybe there is an outside chance he re-signs here but I doubt it. At 27 yrs old he should be looking to set up himself & his family with the best contract he can get from whomever will give it to him. And I doubt that would be Ottawa.

They will have a number of guys who are young now but slowly getting NHL experience like Tkachuk, White, Chabot, Paul, Wolanin & others wile young are getting that much needed experience that they can pass on to the young guys coming up.

 

[Caeldan]

And he's 27 yrs old right now & the team is rebuilding & will likely be crappy for another few yrs which could take him 30 yrs old plus. I think they will deal him while his value is high & if he doesn't re-sign with the team that traded for him maybe there is an outside chance he re-signs here but I doubt it. At 27 yrs old he should be looking to set up himself & his family with the best contract he can get from whomever will give it to him. And I doubt that would be Ottawa.

They will have a number of guys who are young now but slowly getting NHL experience like Tkachuk, White, Chabot, Paul, Wolanin & others wile young are getting that much needed experience that they can pass on to the young guys coming up.

30+ is exactly what you'd want for a contending team for one of your veteran leaders to be. Especially if he's one of the only ones who has ever seen a third round of the playoffs.
Look at the past 10 years of Stanley Cup winners... average age is 27-29 (weighted by ice time), there's always 6-10 players who are over 30 and at least one 35+ player on the roster.

 

[Sweatred]

I agree with you with the only exception being White move to RW, although it's possible I think his two way defensive play most likely keeps him at centre but it's possible. While Byfield might be a great top line centre he could also be a great top line LW & have him play with Logan Brown at centre who IMO is a slightly better playmaker. That would be a pretty big top line if we add Batherson on RW & hard to stop.

Byfield - Brown - Batherson


And he's 27 yrs old right now & the team is rebuilding & will likely be crappy for another few yrs which could take him 30 yrs old plus. I think they will deal him while his value is high & if he doesn't re-sign with the team that traded for him maybe there is an outside chance he re-signs here but I doubt it. At 27 yrs old he should be looking to set up himself & his family with the best contract he can get from whomever will give it to him. And I doubt that would be Ottawa.

They will have a number of guys who are young now but slowly getting NHL experience like Tkachuk, White, Chabot, Paul, Wolanin & others wile young are getting that much needed experience that they can pass on to the young guys coming up.

I can see Byfield breaking into the league at 18 but having someone like Pager cover him for defensive face offs / matchups.

I see White’s strength being a limiting factor as a reliable shutdown 3C. His skating is good enough but he loses a lot of 1v1 puck battles. If he gains strength over
the next few years he can possible minimize that weakness - but I don’t see any progression or specific strength training that is currently focused on that direction. He has the injury excuse so we will see if that was legitimately holding him back or manufactured to protect him.

Say the Sens take Byfield at #2OA There is no way they don’t groom him to be a C. He may see some shifts on the wing but his position will be C.

I think the 2020 Sens could easily have 1C Brown , 2C Byfield 3C Pager 4C CT, Chappy etc. White gets moved to RW vs 4C.

 

[Countdown0]

Pageau should be named Captain.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Dean Brown doesn't think Pageau is worth $4M lol. He'd probably give that to Boro though. What a marroon.