Prospect Info: Jayden Struble, LD, St. Sebastians, Pick 46

[Habs]

You would have to have crazy high standards to not call Galchenyuk and Sergachev wins as only player from the 2012 draft is out producing Galchenyuk and Sergachev has put up very good numbers while still being a few years away from his prime.

I have only seen 1 games this year and wasn't impressed with Domi but he put up 71 pts last year, if that's not impact then I don't know what is. Drouin is a real tough one as the good Drouin is clearly an impact on our offense, the bad Drouin makes me want to drink heavily while yelling at my tv and calling him offensive names.

Domi was in no way a win , he's an awful hockey player that is floating his way towards his next contract. He and Alex are total washes. Last season was a total fluke, he's a 45-50 point player with zero emotion or hockey sense.

The debate is out on Drouin, always will be. The Sergachev trade may haunt us for years.

 

[Whitesnake]

You would have to have crazy high standards to not call Galchenyuk and Sergachev wins as only player from the 2012 draft is out producing Galchenyuk and Sergachev has put up very good numbers while still being a few years away from his prime.

I have only seen 1 games this year and wasn't impressed with Domi but he put up 71 pts last year, if that's not impact then I don't know what is. Drouin is a real tough one as the good Drouin is clearly an impact on our offense, the bad Drouin makes me want to drink heavily while yelling at my tv and calling him offensive names.

Well Galchy was here fairly quickly compared to all the others. Won't be long before point per game goes to other players than him. You still have to think that Rielly is a better player, Hertl, Teurovainen etc.

Thing is, 2012 and 2013 were the worst years to have top picks. Which makes me believe that as an ornganization, we didn't know that. Some others did. Did Calgary bet that giving a 2nd rounder for Cammy was not that big of a deal? Did Nashville knew that giving up a 2nd rounder for Kostitsyn while a high price, wasn't that high based on the upcoming poor draft? We'll never know. In the end, it's where you pick....in what year you do so. In a year, you pick Galchy at top 3. In another, you pick Jonathan Toews....

 

[Whitesnake]

Going back to Struble....lol, yeah, it's obviously too soon to draw any kind of conclusions. True that he has traits that makes him interesting. Solid. Good skater. Good athlete. But hockey is so much more than that. Yet, they take the bet that he will bring those traits with him as he evolves. Let's see what happens.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Going back to Struble....lol, yeah, it's obviously too soon to draw any kind of conclusions. True that he has traits that makes him interesting. Solid. Good skater. Good athlete. But hockey is so much more than that. Yet, they take the bet that he will bring those traits with him as he evolves. Let's see what happens.

Are you not happy with the bet they took on Struble? I like this dart throw. Bust or impact player on the back end who is physically strong and can skate. It's kind of like a Tinordi pick but we took Struble at 46 instead of trading down to take Tinordi at 22.

Not all darts work out. But I love the Struble and Norlinder mix of values in terms of style of play and where we drafted them.

 

[Whitesnake]

Are you not happy with the bet they took on Struble? I like this dart throw. Bust or impact player on the back end who is physically strong and can skate. It's kind of like a Tinordi pick but we took Struble at 46 instead of trading down to take Tinordi at 22.

Not all darts work out. But I love the Struble and Norlinder mix of values in terms of style of play and where we drafted them.

I don't hate it for sure. Kid racks his points in lower leagues. He does skate quite well and does look quite strong. Again, I,m not judging players. I'm judging strategy. If for them, he was surely their BPA and the pick wasn't made because we need to draft d-men....fine with me. As far as his traits, sure, again, no problem. I haven't watched him enough to judge his IQ. But if the IQ do NOT follow his traits, it won't matter how great a skater he is. If it does, well sure, again, no prob. with that pick.

 

[Goldenhands]

I don't hate it for sure. Kid racks his points in lower leagues. He does skate quite well and does look quite strong. Again, I,m not judging players. I'm judging strategy. If for them, he was surely their BPA and the pick wasn't made because we need to draft d-men....fine with me. As far as his traits, sure, again, no problem. I haven't watched him enough to judge his IQ. But if the IQ do NOT follow his traits, it won't matter how great a skater he is. If it does, well sure, again, no prob. with that pick.

You cant draft flawless kids mid second round... Has Struble things to work on? Of course, like any second rounders, even the early ones Brink Kaliyev, Lavoie ect have things to work on...

 

[Vijo Morganstein]

Domi was in no way a win , he's an awful hockey player that is floating his way towards his next contract. He and Alex are total washes. Last season was a total fluke, he's a 45-50 point player with zero emotion or hockey sense.

The debate is out on Drouin, always will be. The Sergachev trade may haunt us for years.

>zero emotion
>Domi
Lmao

 

[Whitesnake]

You cant draft flawless kids mid second round... Has Struble things to work on? Of course, like any second rounders, even the early ones Brink Kaliyev, Lavoie ect have things to work on...

I know. Yet, if IQ isn't t here, it's not something you can easily work on. We are not talking about shots here. And I didn't say Struble had to work on that. I said I didn't have enough viewings to know if he has to.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Catching The Torch: Jayden Struble is progressing rapidly at Northeastern

 

[jaffy27]

Are you not happy with the bet they took on Struble? I like this dart throw. Bust or impact player on the back end who is physically strong and can skate. It's kind of like a Tinordi pick but we took Struble at 46 instead of trading down to take Tinordi at 22.

Not all darts work out. But I love the Struble and Norlinder mix of values in terms of style of play and where we drafted them.

we heard the same garbage about Romanov

 

[Whitesnake]

we heard the same garbage about Romanov

Is Romanov arrived yet? And how are they even related? The garbage is the fact that this team hasn't been able to find prospects so that this team becomes relevant. That's the garbage you should be worried about. Not what posters think of this or that prospect....

Remember how Josh Brook was the second coming of. And nobody except a few including me was talking about Fleury? See, if garbage is said about dissing prospects that haven't arrived yet...garbage is said about overrating prospects that never make it as far as we think they do. Garbage is present everywhere. Especially within a team that fails to be relevant and amongst posters in a message board of a said average team for quite so long now....

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Catching The Torch: Jayden Struble is progressing rapidly at Northeastern

Too bad he lacks creativity apparently. I think i just assumed he was.

 

[Habs Halifax]

we heard the same garbage about Romanov

The issue is some think the latest group will result in the same as previous prospects. It don't work that way

 

[Archijerej]

You would have to have crazy high standards to not call Galchenyuk and Sergachev wins as only player from the 2012 draft is out producing Galchenyuk and Sergachev has put up very good numbers while still being a few years away from his prime.

I wholeheartedly disagree on Galchenyuk. It was a bad pick. There are quite a few players taken in the 1st round that year, that are much better than Galchenyuk. Some of them are defensemen, some broke into the league later and will out produce him in time. Also, Galchenyuk is pretty much a prototype of a player you should avoid, if you wish to build a winning team. He can score his 50 points and still be less relevant to his team's success than many bottom line players. Saying he was a good pick is like saying Andrei Kostitsyn was a good pick in 2004. Sure, he was not a complete disaster, but so what? It was a wasted top pick.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Is Romanov arrived yet? And how are they even related? The garbage is the fact that this team hasn't been able to find prospects so that this team becomes relevant. That's the garbage you should be worried about. Not what posters think of this or that prospect....

Remember how Josh Brook was the second coming of. And nobody except a few including me was talking about Fleury? See, if garbage is said about dissing prospects that haven't arrived yet...garbage is said about overrating prospects that never make it as far as we think they do. Garbage is present everywhere. Especially within a team that fails to be relevant and amongst posters in a message board of a said average team for quite so long now....

Development trends like Romanov are a positive story. I rather have that than someone who disappoints in their draft +1 and +2 years. Don't you? Struble was not a bad pick based on where we picked him. Similar dart throw to Tinordi cause he was a big player who also skated well but picking Tinordi at 22 and Struble at 46 is completely different dart management. Just cause Tinordi bust, it don't mean Struble results in the same. That's not how drafting and development works.

Are you upset with Brook as a pro already? It's 28 AHL games bud. Give the kid a chance. I think the biggest issue with the hope on Brook is we expected him to dominate to early

 

[Whitesnake]

Development trends like Romanov are a positive story. I rather have that than someone who disappoints in their draft +1 and +2 years. Don't you? Struble was not a bad pick based on where we picked him. Similar dart throw to Tinordi cause he was a big player who also skated well but picking Tinordi at 22 and Struble at 46 is completely different dart management. Just cause Tinordi bust, it don't mean Struble results in the same. That's not how drafting and development works.

Are you upset with Brook as a pro already? It's 28 AHL games bud. Give the kid a chance. I think the biggest issue with the hope on Brook is we expected him to dominate to early

Makes no sense bud. Not talking about Romanov's development. What was Jaffy idea to compare Struble to Romanov? What's the point? Yes, Romanov's development looks fine. Struble is still learning and is no way near what Romanov is right now.

Nobody is comparing Tinordi and Struble. Struble isn't the towering d-man is. Makes even less sense to compare both guys than to compare Romanov and Struble....

Upset with Brook? It so has nothing to do with that. Just saying that trying to compare a guy with another that hasn't reach the Pros in the NHL is wrong as things can change quite fast.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Makes no sense bud. Not talking about Romanov's development. What was Jaffy idea to compare Struble to Romanov? What's the point? Yes, Romanov's development looks fine. Struble is still learning and is no way near what Romanov is right now.

Nobody is comparing Tinordi and Struble. Struble isn't the towering d-man is. Makes even less sense to compare both guys than to compare Romanov and Struble....

Upset with Brook? It so has nothing to do with that. Just saying that trying to compare a guy with another that hasn't reach the Pros in the NHL is wrong as things can change quite fast.

I do agree with Jaffy on how he brought up the comments made towards Romanov and how it's similar to Struble today.

I am comparing Tinordi to Struble. They are both big players, physical, and skate well. However, taking one at 22 vs 46 in the draft is where the dart throw management comes in.

I recall you saying, what about Brook and the hype we had on him or something along those lines. It's way to early to be down on him. I was even talking about his pro adjustment years last year when his tires were being pumped up. Comparing him to a proven NHL player is normal when you talk ceiling level.

 

[Andrei79]

Why? Pretty simple part 2. 'Cause you've got your facts wrong.

First, it's scouts not HEAD scouts. Read the entire articles and tell me where it says it's head scouts. Those are scouts. 10 per team. Tons that in the end aren't that much heard when it's time to pick. Like...Serge Boisvert for example.... Ten of 10 NHL scouts surveyed by TSN have the 6-foot-3, 185-pound blueliner in a class all by himself.

Then, if you bring the McKenznie list...bring the McKenzie article. And read this: "The No. 5 spot on TSN’s final rankings goes to Finnish centre Jesperi Kotkaniemi, who was No. 19 on the mid-season rankings and No. 10 on the draft lottery edition rankings. His strong performance at the World Under-18 Championships in April has vaulted him into the top five and provided this draft with something that it seemed to be missing all season long — a potential No. 1 centre."

https://www.tsn.ca/kc-1.1115400

He mentioned it on his Bobcast. He trusts his guys because they're head scouts or directors of player personnel (at least 8 of them). That's why his list is so accurate, he's not talking to Serge Boisverts' lol.

And by the way, your last paragraph only furthers my point: he steadily rose through the year from 19th, to 10th to 5th. He didn't come out of nowhere, he was already seen as a top 10 pick.

There were worries he wasn't a center as his only real experience there was at the 5 nations. Now, if you have a 6'2 player you're already ranking top 10 and that player ends up being arguably the best player in the tournament, putting up both the numbers and shutting down the other teams best players, what do you think happens to that player on your list ? Like, you disregard the information and you don't factor in his performance ? How does that make sense ?

 

[Whitesnake]

I do agree with Jaffy on how he brought up the comments made towards Romanov and how it's similar to Struble today.

I am comparing Tinordi to Struble. They are both big players, physical, and skate well. However, taking one at 22 vs 46 in the draft is where the dart throw management comes in.

I recall you saying, what about Brook and the hype we had on him or something along those lines. It's way to early to be down on him. I was even talking about his pro adjustment years last year when his tires were being pumped up. Comparing him to a proven NHL player is normal when you talk ceiling level.

It makes no sense to compare STruble to Romanov simply because he was a failry unknown kid. We bashed the Koberstein pick. Would Jaffy have said that we shouldn't, see Romanov? How much did we know Romanov anyway? What we knew is that he was on NOBODY'S radar, from McKenzie to whoever and certainly not that fast. And then, for quite a long time now, Timmins has not been able to surprise us with 1 pick since maybe the Grabovski pick. That's 15 years ago. And people are surprised we are skeptical towards unknown players Timmins selects?

 

[Whitesnake]

He mentioned it on his Bobcast. He trusts his guys because they're head scouts or directors of player personnel (at least 8 of them). That's why his list is so accurate, he's not talking to Serge Boisverts' lol.

And by the way, your last paragraph only furthers my point: he steadily rose through the year from 19th, to 10th to 5th. He didn't come out of nowhere, he was already seen as a top 10 pick.

There were worries he wasn't a center as his only real experience there was at the 5 nations. Now, if you have a 6'2 player you're already ranking top 10 and that player ends up being arguably the best player in the tournament, putting up both the numbers and shutting down the other teams best players, what do you think happens to that player on your list ? Like, you disregard the information and you don't factor in his performance ? How does that make sense ?

Well he never says that on any lists. Here's his list from 2017, and he talks about various scouts.

https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft...mentions-1.778987/kchow-template-100-1.778987


And no my last paragraph doesn't prove your point. I never said he wasn't a riser. I never said he wasn't a top 10 pick. I said he became a top 5 because of 1 tournament. Yes, playing well upgrades your chances to be picked earlier. Which is what he did going from Mid 1st round to top 10. NO problem with that. Top 5? It explicitely says it happened because of one tournament. Why shouldn't it happen? Well because one touranement doesn't make a career. You don't play with your regular players. Top players have to settle with 4th line icetime because a team is stronger than others etc.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It makes no sense to compare STruble to Romanov simply because he was a failry unknown kid. We bashed the Koberstein pick. Would Jaffy have said that we shouldn't, see Romanov? How much did we know Romanov anyway? What we knew is that he was on NOBODY'S radar, from McKenzie to whoever and certainly not that fast. And then, for quite a long time now, Timmins has not been able to surprise us with 1 pick since maybe the Grabovski pick. That's 15 years ago. And people are surprised we are skeptical towards unknown players Timmins selects?

Wasn't both Struble and Romanov both unknowns? Or are you saying Romanov was more of an unknown? How does that apply to the Habs scouts though? They can't be criticized on fan scouting unknowns when they have access to way more information.

I think you are missing a key part here. The rankings are easier to narrow down in the 1st round from a fan perspective but even in the 20-31 range has variance. And it opens up even more in the 2nd round. From what I have learned, it's about dart management, how many darts you got, and how deep the talent is from draft to draft. Drafting power in the right draft is where it's at IMO. There is a clear trend of teams that do well in drafting have good drafting power over a span of years, not just a few years.

What you are upset with is our drafting results don't equal our drafting power. This is true to some degree. This is the research I came up with and yes, I started in 08, not 07. It's not about hiding the 07 results. It's about evaluating it after those years and trying to find objective evidence to evaluate fairly and where we went wrong. 08-11 and 12-15 are disappointments but for two completely different reasons. It's a huge 8 year black hole and I can see why some are pessimistic on our new group of prospects. I'm not however. The draft plus development trends and quality/quantity are encouraging and probability is in our favor

08-11:
- 27th in drafting power
- 28th in NHL production and producing NHL players

12-15:
- 13th in drafting power
- 27th in NHL production and producing NHL players

16-19 (yes it's early):
- 10th in drafting power
- 7th in NHL production and producing NHL players

08-11 draft years are to be expected cause we didn't have good drafting power. 12-15 is the disappointment years and especially the 12 and 13 drafts. I get the feeling you think the 12 and 13 drafts will equal the 17 and 18 drafts. Drafting power is similar. We will see.

 

[Andrei79]

Well he never says that on any lists. Here's his list from 2017, and he talks about various scouts.

https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft...mentions-1.778987/kchow-template-100-1.778987


And no my last paragraph doesn't prove your point. I never said he wasn't a riser. I never said he wasn't a top 10 pick. I said he became a top 5 because of 1 tournament. Yes, playing well upgrades your chances to be picked earlier. Which is what he did going from Mid 1st round to top 10. NO problem with that. Top 5? It explicitely says it happened because of one tournament. Why shouldn't it happen? Well because one touranement doesn't make a career. You don't play with your regular players. Top players have to settle with 4th line icetime because a team is stronger than others etc.

So, he shouldn't have moved up based on new information, like a dominant tournament where he played center.

Makes sense.

Then imagine Elias Pettersson breaking into the top 10 in 2017 from april to june without even playing a game, only to be picked 5th !

 

[26Mats]

This teams draft/development history is one disaster after another, so when you get the 3rd overall pick you better get it right, or you'll set yourself back years. How many excuses will the team have for not getting the draft right? Preferably you draft the player which makes your team better for years down the road, knowing you have to retool at all positions, not just one. Given the choices at #3, there were a lot of questions taking JK that high. The fact they were so adamant about taking him no matter what, is a bigger concern. They forgot about the holes on the blueline, and the wing, and just assumed we had holes down the middle.

Where do you find a C if you don't draft them? Make a balsey move like Nashville / Columbus did. Free Agency. How many people here said 'O'reilly sucks we don't want him or that contract'? But here we are moving wingers to the middle, having to endure players like Domi, Weal, Cousins, Thompson, Peca, instead of just going for a true #1 C.

I firmly believe the franchise has no game-plan at all, no idea how to retool/rebuild, and that's a bigger problem than the draft. If we had some decent talent down the middle for JK to learn from, I suspect he's a different player today. If he was in the AHL, I also think he's a better player for it. It brings up so many questions about the moronic decisions this team makes, I really am not sure Mc David would surpass 55 pts in this garbage pile, because he'd be surrounded by smurfs waiver wire castoffs and a disgusting dump and chase system designed to save jobs in management.

Wouldn't call the drafting one disaster after another. Timmins has a really good record in the lottery and drafting dmen, particularly in the 2nd round...

Jk has a lot of talent. Way too early to judge the pick. Couturier and Hertl are big centers that both broke out at 25 years old. Let's wait until KK's 25 before we panic and /or rush to judge the pick.

 

[Runner77]

Rico Fata was the fastest skater the year he was drafted...it takes a whole lot more

Massive potential is bogus unless there is a reasonable chance of it being realized.

Sure, go fishing for a player with massive potential from a pool of free agents for your ECHL team. Otherwise, if you’re drafting a guy like that he has to have more.

 

[ahmedou]

Struble supports well the attack. He has the ability to be a reliable shutdown player.