Player Discussion Jay Beagle

[Melvin]

Higgins you could argue earned a bit of leeway.

I mean... I can rationalize value out of Beagle, but by God... the more you dig into it, the more blatantly bad his contract becomes. These contracts Benning keeps giving out, who the hell is structuring them? Who is the guy now that Gilman is gone?

...last regime had a decent reason for giving out NTCs and NMCs, it was to get lower cap hits and hometown discounts to keep a winning team together.

...we are giving out huge bonuses, NTCs and NMCs right now, why exactly?

Because we're an extremely unattractive destination.

I just had an interview with a company I don't really want to work for. When it came to salary requirements I quoted them a very high rate, much higher than my usual. I mean, I don't really want to work there but if they meet that rate then I'd deal.

I imagine it was the same for Jay Beagle and Vancouver. Except the smart thing to do was to walk away because Jay Beagle isn't going to move the needle in any fashion and you're better off developing your own Jay Beagle with someone like Brendan Gaunce.

 

[RobertKron]

Because we're an extremely unattractive destination.

I just had an interview with a company I don't really want to work for. When it came to salary requirements I quoted them a very high rate, much higher than my usual. I mean, I don't really want to work there but if they meet that rate then I'd deal.

I imagine it was the same for Jay Beagle and Vancouver. Except the smart thing to do was to walk away because Jay Beagle isn't going to move the needle in any fashion and you're better off developing your own Jay Beagle with someone like Brendan Gaunce.

Honestly, I'd agree with this, except that there's a greater than zero likelihood that the Canucks just opened with a surprisingly high number to begin with.

 

[Peter10]

It's been a while that they are following the Oilers footsteps...

 

[VanJack]

There's a reason why Benning and the Canucks cast the net wide every time on July 1st....in fact, they've been one of the most active teams in the entire NHL in signing UFA's the past three seasons.

But whereas most teams blow their wad on one or two big-name guys, the Canucks seem to pursue a philosophy of 'quantity over quality'...Eriksson, Gagner, Del Zotto, Burmistrov, Wiercoch, Larsen, Rodin, Beagle and Schaller to name a few.....it's like a 'disappearing horizon'.

Of course the big part of the problem is that over the years the Canucks have had no organizational depth, and absolutely nothing in the pipeline.

And signing this flotsam and jetsam of UFA's might be defensible if they didn't cough up 'term' on some of them. It's like 'Groundhog Day'. And I fear this July 1st is going to be a 'rinse and repeat'.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Very confusing
Beagle is a beast in a checking role. He’s a great signing by JB.
Beagle, Roussel, and Schaller are smart signings.
We do need a goalie. I’m expecting having Beagle will make life easier for our goalies.

This aged well.

 

[Hit the post]

And signing this flotsam and jetsam of UFA's might be defensible if they didn't cough up 'term' on some of them.

and sometimes (NTCs/modified NTCs). And people complained Gilligan handed out NTCs like candy.

 

[Cogburn]

I still don't see the controversy with either Beagle or Roussel.

Both are regulars in the line up and provide something we didn't have without them.

The difference is that Roussel definitely plays a game that allows him to move up the line up when he's hot or someone is cold.

I'd rather have Beagle on the PK or as a back up shut down center behind Horvat than Sutter. I think we are far better with him in the line up than without him. If our team was constructed properly he would be filling Sutter/Gaudettes role in a "3C" taking as many of the tough minutes as possible. Instead all of our forward depth is piled up at center and he is by default a 4C.

If we clear Sutter and maybe get a defensive winger back (even in a Roussel-aggitator-physical vein) to replace either Eriksson or Motte on his wings we will see improved metric. As it stands his line has been a mishmash of players who are defensive minded in that they are not offensive minded. Even Gaunce is a player I'd like to see on his LW for a real shut down line.

If we can get that third linemate I think we'll see Beagle pop. 3 million is still a lot but relative to Sutter or Gudbranson or Eriksson or Schaller or Gagner or Nilsson or Del Zotto I'd say he's earning it. Compared to more positive contributors I'd say he's about half to a full million a season overpaid which isn't the end of the world to me. There are worse players to focus on.

 

[Cogburn]

and sometimes (NTCs/modified NTCs). And people complained Gilligan handed out NTCs like candy.

A modified NTC isn't the end of the world. It's the NMCs that are vicious.

15 teams does seem excessive though.

 

[Hit the post]

I still don't see the controversy with either Beagle or Roussel.

Both are regulars in the line up and provide something we didn't have without them.

Roussel definately is earning his pay (not afraid to say I was very wrong on him). Beagle? His complete lack of offense mitigates much of the defensive strength's he brings to the club IMHO.

 

[Cogburn]

Roussel definately is earning his pay (not afraid to say I was very wrong on him). Beagle? His complete lack of offense mitigates much of the defensive strength's he brings to the club IMHO.

With better offensive depth that wouldn't be an issue. I agree his points totals are not what we would normally expect for his cap hit but without Beagle Horvat would be playing all of these minutes he takes in the defensive zone with Sutter being underwhelming for a shutdown player and Gaudette and Pettersson doing an admirable job but not even in the same ballpark as the other two. If we had a defensive specialist center on the roster already I'd agree with you but we're paying for our lack of team defense as much as anything else.

 

[VanJack]

Beagle up to three goals on the season....works out to a million bucks a goal. Ovie and McDavid can only wish they were paid by the goal.

I can safely predict that one of Gaunce, Kero, MacEwen or even the immortal Cam Darcy would have three goals by now if they played every game for the Canucks....at considerably less than $3m a season.

 

[MS]

I still don't see the controversy with either Beagle or Roussel.

Both are regulars in the line up and provide something we didn't have without them.

The difference is that Roussel definitely plays a game that allows him to move up the line up when he's hot or someone is cold.

I'd rather have Beagle on the PK or as a back up shut down center behind Horvat than Sutter. I think we are far better with him in the line up than without him. If our team was constructed properly he would be filling Sutter/Gaudettes role in a "3C" taking as many of the tough minutes as possible. Instead all of our forward depth is piled up at center and he is by default a 4C.

If we clear Sutter and maybe get a defensive winger back (even in a Roussel-aggitator-physical vein) to replace either Eriksson or Motte on his wings we will see improved metric. As it stands his line has been a mishmash of players who are defensive minded in that they are not offensive minded. Even Gaunce is a player I'd like to see on his LW for a real shut down line.

If we can get that third linemate I think we'll see Beagle pop. 3 million is still a lot but relative to Sutter or Gudbranson or Eriksson or Schaller or Gagner or Nilsson or Del Zotto I'd say he's earning it. Compared to more positive contributors I'd say he's about half to a full million a season overpaid which isn't the end of the world to me. There are worse players to focus on.

Roussel has been a solid player earning his contract although the term sucks and will likely bite us.

Beagle is a middling no-offense 4th liner who could easily be replaced at $800k. Just a disaster of a signing. And this is year 1 of 4.

 

[Cogburn]

Roussel has been a solid player earning his contract although the term sucks and will likely bite us.

Beagle is a middling no-offense 4th liner who could easily be replaced at $800k. Just a disaster of a signing. And this is year 1 of 4.

We had Dowd and Caps fans (who signed Dowd) miss Beagle in his place. This isn't a Richardson for Sutter situation to me. Beagle is overpaid but I don't see an 800k player having the same effect on our team. The team plays differently without him in the line up. The same can't be said for anyone in our bottom six.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

We had Dowd and Caps fans (who signed Dowd) miss Beagle in his place. This isn't a Richardson for Sutter situation to me. Beagle is overpaid but I don't see an 800k player having the same effect on our team. The team plays differently without him in the line up. The same can't be said for anyone in our bottom six.

How does the team play differently without him in the lineup?

 

[Cogburn]

How does the team play differently without him in the lineup?

I was noticing a lot less in the way of pinching and a lot less in the way offensive creativity. It's as though his absence from the line up has the coaching staff trying to make everyone play more defensively to the point of ignoring potential opportunities to attack. I'll be the first to admit that that is 100% eye test and that it is possible it is also do to other absences as well but his not being in the line up is what makes me feel that despite our overpayment we are better with him then without him.

 

[mathonwy]

How does the team play differently without him in the lineup?

Beagle gives this team a back bone and provides a solidifying presence in our bottom 6.

When he came back from right forearm broken bone in December, we definitely saw an uptick in the team’s overall play.

I find him to be a solid intelligent hard working player that doesn’t take stupid penalties and is good in scrums because he’s pretty strong.

 

[Fire Benning]

Beagle just surpassed Gaunce in non-empty goals yesterday. Despite Beagle being billed as an effective shutdown center, the Canucks have allowed nearly 7 out of 10 even strength goals with him on the ice.

Gaunce was used exclusively as a defensive player last season and had a even strength goal share of 50%, and is cheaper than Beagle, and younger, I maintain that Gaunce was always and remains a better option than Beagle and a number of bottom six players on this team for that matter, yet they just decided to give up on him for some reason..sigh.

 

[VanJack]

Beagle, like Gudbranson, seems to be a stand-up guy, but on a similarly awful contract. It's too bad that all he is, is a decent faceoff guy who brings little else to the table. But then Jimbo's other 'key' UFA signing Schaller, can't even get out of the pressbox.

Roussel has been decent in the first of year of his contract, but like the team has hit the wall lately. But it's only year one of his ridiculous four-year deal, and he has a concussion history. So by year three we might be talking about the same career trajectory as Derek Dorsett.

Every July 1st it's the same Auld Lang Sang.....it took Jimbo two and half seasons to climb out of the hole with Gagner and Gudbranson. And I suppose Sutter's contract is the next anvil to clamber out from under. Eriksson, on the other hand, is hopeless.

So batten down the hatches. Jimbo's magical mystery UFA tour will be back on in full swing this summer.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Beagle just surpassed Gaunce in non-empty goals yesterday. Despite Beagle being billed as an effective shutdown center, the Canucks have allowed nearly 7 out of 10 even strength goals with him on the ice.

Gaunce was used exclusively as a defensive player last season and had a even strength goal share of 50%, and is cheaper than Beagle, and younger, I maintain that Gaunce was always and remains a better option than Beagle and a number of bottom six players on this team for that matter, yet they just decided to give up on him for some reason..sigh.

..and 30 other teams..

 

[Fire Benning]

..and 30 other teams..

Every other team had Gaunce on their team and gave up on him? I must've missed that one.

 

[Get North]

Roussel has been a solid player earning his contract although the term sucks and will likely bite us.

Beagle is a middling no-offense 4th liner who could easily be replaced at $800k. Just a disaster of a signing. And this is year 1 of 4.

A player like Beagle at 800k might have existed 8-10 years ago, but 4th liners with decent production while playing tough, DZ, PK minutes cost quite a bit now.

Players with better production than Beagle below his cap hit, will probably be players who are undersized, AHL all-stars, and cannot play PK/DZ minutes. (Phil Varone, Johan Larsson, Jordan Weal).

There's of course guys like Kesler, Backes, and Dubinsky who are old and overpaid from old contracts.

Then there's guys like Khaira, Glendening, Kuraly, Goodrow, and Paquette. They have never touched the FA market and are drafted players.

You should mention how Dowd's production increased by over 0.30 PPG when he switched from Vancouver to Washington. Comparing that to Beagle's production when he came here, he should be producing even below what he is producing right now. Dowd could be playing with Stephenson, Burakovsky, Hagelin, Boyd, Jaskin compared to Beagle playing with Motte, Eriksson, and Schaller.

Beagle's not a good signing, I'll agree with you on that. We could have Gaunce filling in if Gaudette wasn't ready for the NHL (even though Gaud is ready). But, just putting false information like you can sign players like Beagle for 800k is just false. Luke Schenn is worth 800k.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

People are justifying a 4 year deal for a 3 goal scorer?


What a time to be alive

 

[mathonwy]

People are justifying a 4 year deal for a 3 goal scorer?


What a time to be alive

Nah. Just you looking for something to be outraged about.

 

[Peter10]

A player like Beagle at 800k might have existed 8-10 years ago, but 4th liners with decent production while playing tough, DZ, PK minutes cost quite a bit now.

Players with better production than Beagle below his cap hit, will probably be players who are undersized, AHL all-stars, and cannot play PK/DZ minutes. (Phil Varone, Johan Larsson, Jordan Weal).

There's of course guys like Kesler, Backes, and Dubinsky who are old and overpaid from old contracts.

Then there's guys like Khaira, Glendening, Kuraly, Goodrow, and Paquette. They have never touched the FA market and are drafted players.

You should mention how Dowd's production increased by over 0.30 PPG when he switched from Vancouver to Washington. Comparing that to Beagle's production when he came here, he should be producing even below what he is producing right now. Dowd could be playing with Stephenson, Burakovsky, Hagelin, Boyd, Jaskin compared to Beagle playing with Motte, Eriksson, and Schaller.

Beagle's not a good signing, I'll agree with you on that. We could have Gaunce filling in if Gaudette wasn't ready for the NHL (even though Gaud is ready). But, just putting false information like you can sign players like Beagle for 800k is just false. Luke Schenn is worth 800k.

I think the point is not that you can sign a Beagle clone for 800k (less so in UFA) but rather get a random 4th liner (like a Gaunce) who earns ~800k. While that random player might not be equally good (??) the difference between him and Beagle would be so small nobody should care, in particular not a team like the Canucks. So why throw away $12m over 4 years on a player that wont make a lick of a difference. It is just wasting money.

 

[PG Canuck]

If everyone wanted to pin a lack of offense against Gaunce not being good enough, then I sure as hell will do that against Beagle. His offense is putrid and he is basically useless when the puck leaves the Canucks side of the redline.

@MS has been adamant on Gaunce being a fine 4C if we had just let him play and see where his game went. Gaunce is 2 goals shy of Beagle’s goal production, in 41 less games played this season.