Player Discussion Jay Beagle

[M2Beezy]

I look forward to this guy getting worse every single year for the duration of his contract. Good times.

How could he possibly get any worse than this past year? He got worse as the season went a long to

 

[TruKnyte]

It's only silly if you want to manage the Canucks like a computer game.

In the real world, being able to convince a respected 1 team vet like Beagle to commit 4 years of his life to play hard for your embarrassing tire-fire-that's-been-burning-for-4-years bottom feeder of a team is a fairly significant thing and IMO, signifies a major shift in the right direction for this team.

In the real world, stars like panarin and karlsson don't sign with teams like ours.

Cap management is fine. Cap keeps going up.

Pro scouting is fine (so far). Beagle is an on-ice leader and he plays a hard and heavy game which gives our bottom 6 a good boost in the grit department. He also very rarely takes shifts off.

Is this part for real? Any 4th liner would have taken the term and dollar amount for the contract that Beagle got. That's the whole reason he signed here in the first place lol.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yes it is being objective.
Objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Numbers or statistics are facts. Intangibles are feelings.

You're definition seems more like "faith" or "blind faith" you're believing there are intangibles there with no proof that the value is there.

Jay Beagle's on ice contributions are objectively very similar to what Nic Dowd put up here last year, especially at 5 on 5.

well no. that's completely, utterly and ludicrously wrong. objectivity is not coextensive with empirical measurement. objectivity is the honest fair minded and unbiased assessment of the facts that you perceive, regardless of any subjective beliefs or biases you hold. you don't need a ruler to be objective.

there is a massive chasm between facts that can be measured empirically by a number and the kind of feeling or opinion that would be considered "subjective". inhabiting that chasm are all the facts that reasonably exist but are not readily quantified, aka most of reality. even if you cannot quantify such facts, you must consider and weigh those facts as best you can if you are being objective.

 

[Josepho]

Should be waived next season.

 

[4Twenty]

well no. that's completely, utterly and ludicrously wrong. objectivity is not coextensive with empirical measurement. objectivity is the honest fair minded and unbiased assessment of the facts that you perceive, regardless of any subjective beliefs or biases you hold. you don't need a ruler to be objective.

there is a massive chasm between facts that can be measured empirically by a number and the kind of feeling or opinion that would be considered "subjective". inhabiting that chasm are all the facts that reasonably exist but are not readily quantified, aka most of reality. even if you cannot quantify such facts, you must consider and weigh those facts as best you can if you are being objective.

Well it seems as though you're more interested in debating semantics.

Dowd in Van: CF% 46.73
Beagle in Van: CF% 40.86

Dowd in Van: SF% 47.0
Beagle in Van: SF% 42.18

Dowd in Van: GF% 34.6
Beagle in Van: GF% 37.78

Dowd in Van: OFF zone start%: 17.97
Beagle in Van: OFf zone start%: 19.13

 

[I am toxic]

Is this part for real? Any 4th liner would have taken the term and dollar amount for the contract that Beagle got. That's the whole reason he signed here in the first place lol.

You are conveniently forgetting that Vancouver is a terrible city, consistently ranked as one of the worst cities in the world . . . oh, wait

 

[mathonwy]

Yikes.
A computer game? How about a successful franchise. Show me the teams that were at the bottom who crawled out of it by paying a 33 year old $1m player for $12m with a no-trade clause. If that's what it took to get Beagle here, it shows he's more interested in the $$ than actually doing anything. It's a retirement deal for a player who was never really that good.

Yep a computer game which is a world composed of a drastically reduced set of variables compared to real life.

No because every team is different with its own unique set of circumstances. Having a veteran like Beagle anchoring our bottom 6 was necessary given how fragile Sutter turned out to be.

Beagle, like Burrows, is very much loved by his fans in Washington because he's a stand up guy that is a great teammate and who works his ass off. Based on what I've seen from him so this season, he's always seems to be the first one in on the forecheck and first one to initiate scrums when the opponent is doing rat stuff. He gives our bottom 6 a backbone and considering how much of a meandering mess Jimbo has turned our team into, I'm happy to have Beagle in our line up.

What do you mean by in the real world stars don't sign with teams like the Canucks? Show your work.

Yeah they don't. Aside from bland emotionless arguments like money and term, what argument would you put forth to the 27 year old Panarin or 28 year old Duchene camps to persuade them to pick the Canucks as their next choice team to play for?

I'll answer this question for you. They aren't any because how badly we've been in the last 4 seasons.

Cap management is not fine, that's ludicrous.

Step away from the outrage cliff.

Cap management for this transaction is fine.

Pro scouting has been abysmal, you'll have to do more than just throwing out that statement to convince anyone. Hard, heavy, grit are just words people use when you can't come up with actual tangible reasons he's any good. Fact of the matter is, he gets absolutely smashed in the shots and goals rates at 5 on 5. He makes the team worse. And he's got a NTC.

Hard, heavy, grit.... are words that actually mean activities such as:
- constantly initiating contact
- constantly holding the opponent accountable for their actions
- standing up for your teammates

You know. Real life stuff?

But as we've already ascertained, it sounds like the computer game world with its limited number of variables is more up your alley.

Makes the team worse?

Are you sure?

 

[Josepho]

when's the last time jay beagle stood up for a teammate

he's not even a gritty player and if he was from stockholm he probably would've been out of the league in 2015

not like any of this has anything to do with being good at hockey anyways

 

[DonnyNucker]

when's the last time jay beagle stood up for a teammate

he's not even a gritty player and if he was from stockholm he probably would've been out of the league in 2015

not like any of this has anything to do with being good at hockey anyways

I hate the signing but give me a break. He stands up for a teammate every game. You don’t need to drop the gloves to stand up for your teammates, it’s 2019

 

[Josepho]

if talking to the opposition in a 4 second scrum counts as standing up for your teammates then literally every player stands up for their teammates and makes jay beagle indistinguishable from everyone else

the reason this team sucks is because we focus on and pay a premium for stupid shit like this for our depth players and the moment we cut them we're going to improve more than expected

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Beagle is just chillin' with a post season 'jay'

 

[DonnyNucker]

if talking to the opposition in a 4 second scrum counts as standing up for your teammates then literally every player stands up for their teammates and makes jay beagle indistinguishable from everyone else

the reason this team sucks is because we focus on and pay a premium for stupid **** like this for our depth players and the moment we cut them we're going to improve more than expected

We suck because we lack skill not because w overpay our bottom 6. The team has a trash top 6/ top 4.

 

[Krnuckfan]

I hate the signing but give me a break. He stands up for a teammate every game. You don’t need to drop the gloves to stand up for your teammates, it’s 2019

What does beagle do to stand up for teammates that dowd didn't do? What does beagle do other than skating into a scrum and grabbing a guy's jersey?

The dowd contract just shows how dumb jim benning is and the difference between an organization that wins presidents trophies and stanley cups, and an organization with the most losses in the NHL in the past 4 years.

 

[TruKnyte]

You are conveniently forgetting that Vancouver is a terrible city, consistently ranked as one of the worst cities in the world . . . oh, wait

Yea, that's why FA's are lining up for us next year

 

[4Twenty]

We suck because we lack skill not because w overpay our bottom 6. The team has a trash top 6/ top 4.

Can't pay for a good top 6 if you overpay the bottom 6/3rd pair.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Can't pay for a good top 6 if you overpay the bottom 6/3rd pair.

As I mentioned previously, hate the signing. But is he preventing us from signing Panarin? EK? Don’t think so. At least he is done before we have to resign Hughes/ Elias

 

[Josepho]

As I mentioned previously, hate the signing. But is he preventing us from signing Panarin? EK? Don’t think so. At least he is done before we have to resign Hughes/ Elias

That last part actually isn't true.

 

[DonnyNucker]

That last part actually isn't true.

Is there one year overlap? If that’s the case then maybe he will need to be bought out after next season

 

[4Twenty]

Is there one year overlap? If that’s the case then maybe he will need to be bought out after next season

A buyout does very little cap space clearing, because it's another garbage Benning signing bonus laden contract like Eriksson's. Beagle alone doesn't keep the team from signing marquee free agents, the countless other overpays on every other contract does.

It's going to be funny that the guy he likely attempts to strong arm will be one of the few marquee talents on the team, Brock Boeser.

 

[VanJack]

Another dud of a UFA roll of the dice last year by Jimbo. From all reports Beagle is a stand-up guy, but you can't pay $3m season to a three-goal scorer. I don't care how many face-offs he wins, or if he's an inspirational figure in the dressing-room. It's an awful contract with even worse term.

As far as the other two....Roussel was solid for as long as it lasted. But again, $3m and four years is far too long for a third-fourth line winger. The guy missed the first month of the season with lingering concussion issues (he's had a number of them in his career). And now he's gone until at least Xmas of next year with knee surgery.

Finally Schaller....enough said. They're going to have to eat his contract.

So last year a total bust imo. And this year? How much confidence can you really have?

 

[WTG]

 

[Phenomenon13]

Another dud of a UFA roll of the dice last year by Jimbo. From all reports Beagle is a stand-up guy, but you can't pay $3m season to a three-goal scorer. I don't care how many face-offs he wins, or if he's an inspirational figure in the dressing-room. It's an awful contract with even worse term.

As far as the other two....Roussel was solid for as long as it lasted. But again, $3m and four years is far too long for a third-fourth line winger. The guy missed the first month of the season with lingering concussion issues (he's had a number of them in his career). And now he's gone until at least Xmas of next year with knee surgery.

Finally Schaller....enough said. They're going to have to eat his contract.

So last year a total bust imo. And this year? How much confidence can you really have?

I agree why does Benning continually give out signing bonuses and make these contracts buyout proof. He's removing a possible solution to get some cap relief if a player doesn't perform to the contract. Just awful cap management.

Beagle and Eriksson would barely save any cap and signing someone to replace them would essentially make us spend more than we would have if we just kept them in the first place.

 

[TruGr1t]

As I mentioned previously, hate the signing. But is he preventing us from signing Panarin? EK? Don’t think so. At least he is done before we have to resign Hughes/ Elias

It doesn't concern you, from a broader level, that management signs bad players to contracts you "hate."

I mean what happens when these contracts actually do matter.

Many would argue these contracts, and the fact Benning is incompetent at negotiating anything more broadly, is the reason he should be fired.

You should fire him before these mistakes actually do matter because by then you're screwed.

 

[DonnyNucker]

It doesn't concern you, from a broader level, that management signs bad players to contracts you "hate."

I mean what happens when these contracts actually do matter.

Many would argue these contracts, and the fact Benning is incompetent at negotiating anything more broadly, is the reason he should be fired.

You should fire him before these mistakes actually do matter because by then you're screwed.

I think benning should be fired but for slightly different reasons. Although these signings are frustrating I don’t think they are going to cripple the team in the future (Loui being the exception).

I would prefer benning is replaced because he is desperate and desperate GM’s f*** up to save their own ass. It’s pretty obvious that benning will be fired if they don’t make the playoffs next season so the thought of him trying to plug the roster with long term contracts for UFAs in their late 20’s/ early 30’s is terrifying. We need a new Prez or GM that has job security and is willing to tell aquilini to f*** off when he interferes or try’s to rush things. That man clearly isn’t Jim

 

[krutovsdonut]

It doesn't concern you, from a broader level, that management signs bad players to contracts you "hate."

I mean what happens when these contracts actually do matter.

Many would argue these contracts, and the fact Benning is incompetent at negotiating anything more broadly, is the reason he should be fired.

You should fire him before these mistakes actually do matter because by then you're screwed.

so much is based on the idea benning doesn't know he's overpaying guys.

what if benning sat in a room with you and said

"aquagrit, with the sedins gone and the way things went last year even with the sedins, i think we need these kind of guys and we will have to overpay badly to get them because nobody we want is coming here otherwise when they can chase a cup. we will take our lumps later with their eventual deadweight salaries but the betting is we are going to suck badly next year and that can cripple the development of our young guys like it has on other teams. signing these guys will be good for keeping things where you need them in the room and off the ice while the young guys are coming up, and maybe more than that if the kids can get on a roll."

because that's what i think he said. and i think aquaman said ok with his eyes open. and i think it worked out ok in year one.