Confirmed with Link: Jason Botterill Hired As General Manager -- MOD WARNING #1851

[Genny Screamer]

Think about this for a second: there is an excellent chance that he is going to have to trade Skinner for (if we are lucky) a late first round pick, likely in 2020. He will have traded ROR, Kane and Skinner (all excellent NHL players) and not got back a single credible NHL player. That's not Chiarelli level bad, that's Mike Milbury level bad.

I guess you can predict the future.

Thompson
Sobotka
2019 1st
2021 2nd
Danny O'Regan
2019 1st
2019 4th
2020 1st***

All of these assets will not result in one credible NHL player. That's quite the hyperbole.

 

[sabremike]

I guess you can predict the future.

Thompson
Sobotka
2019 1st
2021 2nd
Danny O'Regan
2019 1st
2019 4th
2020 1st***

All of these assets will not result in one credible NHL player. That's quite the hyperbole.

What about Bott's talent evaluation skills gives you any confidence he won't completely blow all 3 of those first rounders? And again we got scratch off lottery tickets who MAY amount to something. We didn't get a single actual credible NHL player NOW.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I guess you can predict the future.

Thompson
Sobotka
2019 1st
2021 2nd
Danny O'Regan
2019 1st
2019 4th
2020 1st***

All of these assets will not result in one credible NHL player. That's quite the hyperbole.

It's called restocking the cupboard. Pretty sure it was Murray who depleted it....

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Botterill has already drafted a couple pretty good looking prospects (6K, Laaksonen, Davidsson, Mittelstadt, Pekar, and maybe Samuelsson), and no...I won't even mention Dahlin because that was easy.

So far his drafting looks VERY good, if not fantastic.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

I don't normally disagree with your takes - but:

- Rightly or wrongly the reasons for moving ROR I understand why he felt it had to be done. And he arguably got more for him than we originally gave u to get him

- He got as much as could be expected for Kane who was not a fit on this team moving forward. It was a bad trade by Murray in the first place.

- If he trades Skinner for a 1st it's a net gain. Although I fully expect him to be resigned - hopefully the deal isn't crazy.

I'm sorry, I disagree with the ROR eval. Buffalo traded for O'Reilly who would not sign in Colorado and needed a contract. Buffalo took a big gamble to trade for him. Thats why the price was good for Buffalo. I mean he could have walked and Buffalo could have been left with nothing. We trading him while he was under contract for 5 more years. That's a huge difference. While the pieces may be close to equal to acquire O'Reilly, the circumstances are way different. The crappy city of Buffalo had 2 great centers locked up and traded one for peanuts because of hurt feelings.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Botterill has already drafted a couple pretty good looking prospects (6K, Laaksonen, Davidsson, Mittelstadt, Pekar, and maybe Samuelsson), and no...I won't even mention Dahlin because that was easy.

So far his drafting looks VERY good, if not fantastic.

You can’t say it’s fantastic until at least one of them becomes an actual player. There is no length you will not go to heap praise on Botterill over absolutely zero results.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Not sure this has been posted yet
Are the Sabres being too patient with certain prospects?

 

[Havok89]

What about Bott's talent evaluation skills gives you any confidence he won't completely blow all 3 of those first rounders? And again we got scratch off lottery tickets who MAY amount to something. We didn't get a single actual credible NHL player NOW.

Why would Kane or a hypothetical Skinner trade return an NHL player?

 

[sabremike]

You can’t say it’s fantastic until at least one of them becomes an actual player. There is no length you will not go to heap praise on Botterill over absolutely zero results.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: passing on Bode Wilde for Samuelson is going to end up being a gigantic mistake that haunts us for years. Wilde is among the best examples of a completely stupid narrative about a kid causing him to be ridiculously undervalued (my other recent example of this was all the dopes who passed on Barzal because they thought him suffering a non hockey injury meant he didn't take playing seriously lol).

 

[truthbluth]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: passing on Bode Wilde for Samuelson is going to end up being a gigantic mistake that haunts us for years. Wilde is among the best examples of a completely stupid narrative about a kid causing him to be ridiculously undervalued (my other recent example of this was all the dopes who passed on Barzal because they thought him suffering a non hockey injury meant he didn't take playing seriously lol).

Man, I have this same thought.

 

[Team Cozens]

You can’t say it’s fantastic until at least one of them becomes an actual player. There is no length you will not go to heap praise on Botterill over absolutely zero results.

And posters can’t question Botterill’s talent evaluation skills at this stage either. Way too early and we have some very promising prospects.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Gotta love the people comparing Botts to Murray. In the West the Sabres would firmly be in a playoff spot. He acquired the leagues 2nd leading goal scorer for pretty much a mid 2nd, the Sabres have been dog shit for nearly a decade and are on pace for 90+ points and its all doom and gloom. Still 27 games left. Skinner was not re-signing before the deadline he wants 8 years. I love that Botts gets early blame for having to "trade Skinner" but no credit for acquiring him in the first place.

 

[Snippit]

Gotta love the people comparing Botts to Murray. In the West the Sabres would firmly be in a playoff spot. He acquired the leagues 2nd leading goal scorer for pretty much a mid 2nd, the Sabres have been dog **** for nearly a decade and are on pace for 90+ points and its all doom and gloom. Still 27 games left. Skinner was not re-signing before the deadline he wants 8 years. I love that Botts gets early blame for having to "trade Skinner" but no credit for acquiring him in the first place.

Botts traded away ROR for what could amount to absolutely nothing...let that sink in.

 

[sabremike]

Gotta love the people comparing Botts to Murray. In the West the Sabres would firmly be in a playoff spot. He acquired the leagues 2nd leading goal scorer for pretty much a mid 2nd, the Sabres have been dog **** for nearly a decade and are on pace for 90+ points and its all doom and gloom. Still 27 games left. Skinner was not re-signing before the deadline he wants 8 years. I love that Botts gets early blame for having to "trade Skinner" but no credit for acquiring him in the first place.

We are at 61 points. If we go PPG .500 that gets us to 88. And of course it should be pointed out the team has done nothing but lose games since early December.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Gotta love the people comparing Botts to Murray. In the West the Sabres would firmly be in a playoff spot. He acquired the leagues 2nd leading goal scorer for pretty much a mid 2nd, the Sabres have been dog **** for nearly a decade and are on pace for 90+ points and its all doom and gloom. Still 27 games left. Skinner was not re-signing before the deadline he wants 8 years. I love that Botts gets early blame for having to "trade Skinner" but no credit for acquiring him in the first place.

It just seems we take a step forward then a step back. Time will tell.

 

[Aladyyn]

And posters can’t question Botterill’s talent evaluation skills at this stage either. Way too early and we have some very promising prospects.

Oh we definitely can. Just look at the depth players he thought would help the team in the last 2 years. Gross.

 

[Team Cozens]

Oh we definitely can. Just look at the depth players he thought would help the team in the last 2 years. Gross.

The discussion was around drafting.... but thanks.

 

[Fezzy126]

And posters can’t question Botterill’s talent evaluation skills at this stage either. Way too early and we have some very promising prospects.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to people that complain about a GM's talent evaluation skills, it just undermines their understanding of how an NHL front office actually operates.

The pro and amateur scouting department handles all talent evaluation, and it has been an area that the Sabres have been notoriously weak at since Golisano gutted our scouting dept years ago. Botts is simply management, not the boots on the ground.

 

[kirby11]

Oh we definitely can. Just look at the depth players he thought would help the team in the last 2 years. Gross.

Not to mention, who's the last forward we really developed in the org that wasn't a high draft pick?

BBF all busted, jury's out on Nylander, Armia was pretty meh.

I guess if Olofsson turns into something then he qualifies.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Why are some of us so sure that there is an “excellent chance he trades skinner?” Did I miss something?

The only swing and a miss in my opinion is the ROR trade. No one should be surprised that our second line is bad when we no longer have a legit 2C.

Do some people really wish we had kept Kane? He is a good player but it was a bad fit in Buffalo.

Everything else botts has done has been okay, imo.

 

[Snippit]

Why are some of us so sure that there is an “excellent chance he trades skinner?” Did I miss something?

The only swing and a miss in my opinion is the ROR trade. No one should be surprised that our second line is bad when we no longer have a legit 2C.

Do some people really wish we had kept Kane? He is a good player but it was a bad fit in Buffalo.

Everything else botts has done has been okay, imo.

I don't disagree...but the ROR trade is too big of an error. It outweighs any good he has done by quite a bit. Before it I was fine with Botts.

 

[GellMann]

Oh we definitely can. Just look at the depth players he thought would help the team in the last 2 years. Gross.

This is the most damning evidence in a case questioning Botterill's GM abilities. Lots of stuff still needs to play out if you want to analyze draft picks, or long term vision. But for two straight years, he was very bad at identifying good forward depth when he was trying to get it right for that season he was in. You can excuse (I wouldn't, but you can) not optimizing this year's or last year's roster with more careful and nuanced deployment of prospects, but Vlad Sobotka, Patrik Berglund, Benoit Pouliot, Josefson, Griffith, and the continued allowance of guys like Pominville to penetrate the top six (We know Phil will stick him there and we knew that in Oct. 2017, Jason easily could have made it so that isn't an option any time in the last calendar year), it's a terrible look for moves that are, without a doubt, geared toward making a current team better.

 

[sabrebuild]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to people that complain about a GM's talent evaluation skills, it just undermines their understanding of how an NHL front office actually operates.

The pro and amateur scouting department handles all talent evaluation, and it has been an area that the Sabres have been notoriously weak at since Golisano gutted our scouting dept years ago. Botts is simply management, not the boots on the ground.

Let’s ignore the idea that gm just blindly trusts his scouts and doesn’t take a good look at certain tiers of players himself.

Beyond that, are you telling me that it’s not a blight on a gm to not be able to convince his ownership to invest heavily into his scouting department with no cap restrictions and one of the top 5 richest owners in the league?

Simply management.... as if Botts is a tourist watching to see what happens next on the show.

 

[toomuchsauce]

FFS, the Buffalo News...the Buffalo News (!!!)...scoops up Travis Yost as a consultant, and he effing obliterates the entire organization in one article (though it's clear his intention wasn't to smear - just to analyze, which he did and the analysis is...well...it's bad....). My god. If you're the GM who oversees this horrible shitshow, you should probably do something about it immediately. Of course, I, as I sip this tea, would know nothing about it, so....

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I'm sorry, I disagree with the ROR eval. Buffalo traded for O'Reilly who would not sign in Colorado and needed a contract. Buffalo took a big gamble to trade for him. Thats why the price was good for Buffalo. I mean he could have walked and Buffalo could have been left with nothing. We trading him while he was under contract for 5 more years. That's a huge difference. While the pieces may be close to equal to acquire O'Reilly, the circumstances are way different. The crappy city of Buffalo had 2 great centers locked up and traded one for peanuts because of hurt feelings.

There's absolutely no way the Sabres make that deal unless he is re-signing.

Not even Murray is that crazy.