Confirmed with Link: Jake Walman

[Gniwder]

Not expecting anything from Walman. He looked like a 7th at best to me.

So how are you ranking Lindstrom/Oesterle/Hagg/Pysyk/Walman?

I'm not sure there's a distinct pecking order, they all suck at at least one aspect of the game so it really depends on the opponent.

 

[Henkka]

Trade is the way to go. He'll make the other team worse.

Lots of injuries across the league, maybe someone will take him for "future considerations" or maybe a bag of pucks..... or maybe just the bag and then Zadina can fill it, lol.

Would love to see Hägg-Oesterle at Leafs now...

...when they lost Muzzin for whole season and also Brodie has an injury.

Those guys could be our trojan horses to secure our playoff spot...

 

[Oddbob]

So how are you ranking Lindstrom/Oesterle/Hagg/Pysyk/Walman?

I'm not sure there's a distinct pecking order, they all suck at at least one aspect of the game so it really depends on the opponent.

Not sure about Pysyk until I see him with the Wings, but the rest are not really in any discernible order to me. Lindstrom is probably the safest because he doesn't implode like Oesterle and Hagg can, but he also doesn't really provide a positive impact anywhere. I don't hate Hagg as much as others, because at least he brings some toughness and Oesterle doesn't seem good at anything really. Walman can skate so that is good, but he too isn't really good at anything. Ideally we trade for an improvement there. They are all meh for the most part.

For me, the Hagg/Oesterle combo is the ugliest and Oesterle probably sits every game. My guess is Hagg or Oesterle eventually get put on waivers once Walman is ready to go as I don't think they will keep 8 D and only 1 extra forward.

 

[Gniwder]

Not sure about Pysyk until I see him with the Wings, but the rest are not really in any discernible order to me. Lindstrom is probably the safest because he doesn't implode like Oesterle and Hagg can, but he also doesn't really provide a positive impact anywhere. I don't hate Hagg as much as others, because at least he brings some toughness and Oesterle doesn't seem good at anything really. Walman can skate so that is good, but he too isn't really good at anything. Ideally we trade for an improvement there. They are all meh for the most part.

For me, the Hagg/Oesterle combo is the ugliest and Oesterle probably sits every game. My guess is Hagg or Oesterle eventually get put on waivers once Walman is ready to go as I don't think they will keep 8 D and only 1 extra forward.

I dunno, I think Hagg is the worst of the bunch. Physical, but he goes full Brendan Smith at times, and you never go full Brendan Smith.


This is like discussing who's uglier, Mama June or Roseanne Barr, lol.

 

[Henkka]

It's quite tough to understand, how Chiarot - Seider has become statistically worse pair than DeKeyser - Seider was at last season.

2021-22 DeKeyser-Seider xGF% (2.17 GF - 2.94 GA) = 42.4%
2022-23 Chiarot - Seider xGF% (2.03 GF - 2.84 GA) = 41.7%

2021-22 DeKeyser-Seider GF% (1.97 GF - 2.68 GA) = 42.3%
2022-23 Chiarot - Seider GF% (2.59 GF - 3.74 GA) = 41.7%

2021-22 DeKeyser-Seider CF% (49.1 CF - 61.2 CA) = 44.5%
2022-23 Chiarot - Seider CF% (51.8 CF - 67.9 CA) = 43.3%

So all Corsi%, expected goals and real goals are worse at this season. Hard to believe the numbers, but it is what it is. Collapse on latest games. Chi-Seids was much nearer 50-50 at first season games.

When wathcing those other pair Stats, all guys from 2021-22 season with Lindström are quite same as last season, with pretty bad numbers.

Only pair doing better is Määttä - Hronek, which is better than any Hronek-pair (Leddy/Staal - Hronek) from last season.

 

[Gniwder]

It's quite tough to understand, how Chiarot - Seider has become statistically worse pair than DeKeyser - Seider was at last season.

Blash > Lalonde

 

[Henkka]

It feels like Chiarot is an upgrade, and Seider is playing with one leg (like DeKeyser at last season).

 

[norrisnick]

It's quite tough to understand, how Chiarot - Seider has become statistically worse pair than DeKeyser - Seider was at last season.

2021-22 DeKeyser-Seider xGF% (2.17 GF - 2.94 GA) = 42.4%
2022-23 Chiarot - Seider xGF% (2.03 GF - 2.84 GA) = 41.7%

2021-22 DeKeyser-Seider GF% (1.97 GF - 2.68 GA) = 42.3%
2022-23 Chiarot - Seider GF% (2.59 GF - 3.74 GA) = 41.7%

2021-22 DeKeyser-Seider CF% (49.1 CF - 61.2 CA) = 44.5%
2022-23 Chiarot - Seider CF% (51.8 CF - 67.9 CA) = 43.3%

So all Corsi%, expected goals and real goals are worse at this season. Hard to believe the numbers, but it is what it is. Collapse on latest games. Chi-Seids was much nearer 50-50 at first season games.

When wathcing those other pair Stats, all guys from 2021-22 season with Lindström are quite same as last season, with pretty bad numbers.

Only pair doing better is Määttä - Hronek, which is better than any Hronek-pair (Leddy/Staal - Hronek) from last season.

It's not hard to understand. The pairing was etched into stone sight unseen when Chiarot signed. They don't work together due to playstyle but no one on the Wings seems to care. Lidstrom and Chelios weren't good together. Lidstrom and Konstantinov weren't good together. When both players on a pairing want to do the same thing it's usually not a good fit. No different than tossing 3 shooters or 3 passers on the same line. Just not a good fit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It feels like Chiarot is an upgrade, and Seider is playing with one leg (like DeKeyser at last season).

Detroit has 4 total blowouts this early. 4 games losing by 4 or more goals, 3 times giving up 6 or more goals in those games. Twice giving up 8 f***ing goals.

They only had 2 losses of 4 or more goals, and only gave up 6 or more goals twice in the first 14 games in 2021-22.

Also, last season Seider was pretty decent. This year...not so much.

EDIT: Sorry, hit reply to the wrong Henkka message. This was in regards to why DeKeyser/Seider was better than Chiarot/Seider.

 

[Henkka]

It's not hard to understand. The pairing was etched into stone sight unseen when Chiarot signed. They don't work together due to playstyle but no one on the Wings seems to care. Lidstrom and Chelios weren't good together. Lidstrom and Konstantinov weren't good together. When both players on a pairing want to do the same thing it's usually not a good fit. No different than tossing 3 shooters or 3 passers on the same line. Just not a good fit.

Yeah, that's why I wonder most why are the D-pairs locked together all the time, and they suffle only those forwards line.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, that's why I wonder most why are the D-pairs locked together all the time, and they suffle only those forwards line.

Probably has to do more with the second pair playing well than anything else. If Hronek winds up on the top pair and gets targeted like Seider then he'll fall apart quickly.

Much like us, Fester probably thinks Seider will come around eventually and start playing like he did last season. Seider just needs to play better, his partner isn't the issue. Chiarot has made some mistakes, but I hardly ever see him cause Seider to make a mistake.

 

[Gyldenlove]

I think we can all agree that the only viable solution is to be solidly in the playoff spots when the trade deadline approaches and then trade for a player to pair with Seider, move Chiarot to the 3rd pair and win a Stanley cup.

 

[norrisnick]

I think we can all agree that the only viable solution is to be solidly in the playoff spots when the trade deadline approaches and then trade for a player to pair with Seider, move Chiarot to the 3rd pair and win a Stanley cup.

We don't have to trade. Ed is right there.

 

[Gniwder]

In retrospect, I wish Stevie had given Walman Zadina's deal and vice versa.

He's playing much better than I expected, I guess he must have been playing with an injured shoulder last season. Oesterle still gives me the heebie jeebies, yet Walman makes the pairing look good. They went up against Vegas' top lines today and did OK.

I think it's time to trade Hagg for a bag of pucks, I don't think he'll play again unless 2 LHD get injured. If that happens then the WIngs won't make the playoffs anyways.

 

[redwings8831]

So what does an potential extension look like?

 

[Henkka]

Put him with Chiarot to drag the caphit down.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Cap strapped playoff teams are going to want him, badly. Name a better D man on the trade market only costing $1M?

Strike while iron is hot, steal a first for him.

 

[DatsDeking]

Cap strapped playoff teams are going to want him, badly. Name a better D man on the trade market only costing $1M?

Strike while iron is hot, steal a first for him.

I’d do that in a heartbeat in this draft. Especially if it’s a middling or bubble playoff team. Ooh baby

 

[Gniwder]

Cap strapped playoff teams are going to want him, badly. Name a better D man on the trade market only costing $1M?

Strike while iron is hot, steal a first for him.

I'd like to see him re-signed unless he brings back a 1st, but I doubt he has that much trade value because he has almost no playoff experience. 1 NHL game and 8 AHL.

This is the first season he's looked good, NHL GMs and coaches don't trust small sample size when it comes to playoff games. Makar being an exception of course. (His first NHL game was a playoff game)

I think the 1st round pick only plays out if a team suffers an injury. I think he could easily fetch a 2nd, Jensen and Smith did.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Cap strapped playoff teams are going to want him, badly. Name a better D man on the trade market only costing $1M?

Strike while iron is hot, steal a first for him.

I'd rather find a way to dump Chiarot and keep Walman. He's a good player entering his prime and he's cost controlled. We know that he plays well with Seider and can move down the lineup and still make a positive impact.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

I'd rather find a way to dump Chiarot and keep Walman. He's a good player entering his prime and he's cost controlled. We know that he plays well with Seider and can move down the lineup and still make a positive impact.

I with you Ogee, but not sure that can happen. Chiarot would be hard to move right now.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I with you Ogee, but not sure that can happen. Chiarot would be hard to move right now.

There are teams out there that would take him. Anaheim, Arizona and Chicago could use anything resembling an NHL defenseman. Philly seems to love players like Chiarot. LA and Ottawa are 2 other teams that could use LD. Buffalo needs to spend money or incur a penalty for 2023-24.

Realistically, Detroit has to give something up to get rid of Chiarot whether that be retention to get positive value or if Detroit gives up a pick to shed his salary. I don't think they just waive him and let him ride it out in GR.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Honestly, most optimal is trade walman for a 1st and hope doesn't resign with that team and go after him again in free agency. He has been a revelation for the blue line and I think if you let him know that you are trading him to get more draft capital and hope he considers Detroit in free agency should send a clear message that we want you back, but we need to capitalize on your current value.

Then hope he gets to FA and sign him for 3-5 years. He will be 28 for next year, but he still has good legs and a shot, why not.

 

[13to40]

If you get anything from a 2nd+ I don’t see why you wouldn’t trade him with what kids we having coming up the pipeline.

 

[Gniwder]

Buffalo needs to spend money or incur a penalty for 2023-24.

Tage already got his big raise, and they'll pay for a goalie. At that point signing a warm body or two gets them to the floor.