Rumor: Jake Virtanen Trade Rumor Discussion

[PuckMunchkin]

Based on his deployment, on how he trained, on how he turned out, on how he plays.

I agree that we are obviously bad at developing talent.

But... He has trouble showing up in shape for camp, nobody else does. To me this is a pretty clear sign there is a motivation issue.

 

[polloqpiu]

I agree that we are obviously bad at developing talent.

But... He has trouble showing up in shape for camp, nobody else does. To me this is a pretty clear sign there is a motivation issue.

Yea it could be just him being lazy, but at the same time it seems to me he wasnt directed enough to become a role player after being a top 6 didnt pan out.

 

[theguardianII]

what a bunch of horse shit.
Benning haters will say anything to fit their narrative.
As many TB fans pointed out they had several scenarios to create cap, plus Benning initiated the talks and it was mutually beneficial for both teams.
Pearson for Guddy was a hands down win and that's not debatable.
As for Nate at least 2 other team's out east were in on Nate and at one point Dreger tweeted he was going to Florida, it fell through and Vegas had 12 hours to get below 10% over the cap.
Every post I read on that thread were all in agreement it was a steal.
Benning has made some bad deals and signings but making up lies and trying to take any credit away from the good deals and transactions is really immature.

Well there is no denying the last few years teams where cap space was needed so they could win the cup Benning stepped up. Also teams making those trades traded to a team losing 50 games a year and no playoff threat and then won the cup.

Okay, let's professor Benning initiated these deals, why were they consummated so fast? Certainly the other teams would shop around for the best deal right? And those GM's are winning cups so they in that respect, are better than Benning right?

These trades sure turned the team around eh? Currently 29th in the league On pace to lose 36 - 40 games, a .356 win/loss percentage

I tell you what, why don't you "revisionist the standings"

 

[theguardianII]

I hope it’s dead too. Any team trading for Jake will get him a fitness trainer and a dietician. They will get Jake in shape and cut his weight to under 210. He can be a much better player, but he needs off ice support more than on ice coaching.

There is also a good chance Jake will get to play with the same people more than 10 shifts at a time.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yea it could be just him being lazy, but at the same time it seems to me he wasnt directed enough to become a role player after being a top 6 didnt pan out.

Regardless of where or how you are expected to play the coach wants to see effort. Jake has been inconsistent with his effort for his entire career.
Honestly I see him out of the nhl before he turns 30 at this rate. Or if he is to be in the nhl it will be for $1 mill or less.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

Like getting rid of McCann + high 2nd round pick for a $4 million NoGoodBranSuck?

Jake will NEVER reach that so called 'potential" with the Canucks. McCann only played 1 season with them, what's the body of work with Jake? 6 years? Not really a good comparison.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I’m tired of all of the excuses for this guy. At some point the responsibility falls on the player to come into camp in shape and play hard every single shift. The guy is making millions of dollars to play a game while there’s guys languishing in the minors who work twice as hard and would give anything to be in Virtanen’s position. If he wasn’t a high pick by this management group he would have been sent packing years ago and not been given all of these opportunities.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

The problem with Jake Virtanen is between the ears and can't be fixed. This has been evident for his entire time in a Canucks uniform. He has been the exact same player and has never changed his game since game 1.

This organization needs to bring in a team of smart people who can analyze advanced stats so we understand when a player like Virtanen should be moved for max value. In hindsight that was 2 years ago when he was on a goal streak and before increasing his contract value.

The problem with Greener is between the ears and can't be fixed. This has been evident for his entire time in a Canucks as a coach. He has been the exact same coach and has never changed his game since game 1.

This organization needs to bring in a team of smart people who can analyze advanced stats so we understand when a coach like Greener should be fired. In hindsight that was 2 years ago when he was on a winning streak and before increasing his contract value.

Hehe

 

[4Twenty]

what a bunch of horse shit.
Benning haters will say anything to fit their narrative.
As many TB fans pointed out they had several scenarios to create cap, plus Benning initiated the talks and it was mutually beneficial for both teams.
Pearson for Guddy was a hands down win and that's not debatable.
As for Nate at least 2 other team's out east were in on Nate and at one point Dreger tweeted he was going to Florida, it fell through and Vegas had 12 hours to get below 10% over the cap.
Every post I read on that thread were all in agreement it was a steal.
Benning has made some bad deals and signings but making up lies and trying to take any credit away from the good deals and transactions is really immature.

Benning initiated Miller talks? Can you provide a link. I honestly don’t recall that.

I do recall Dubas contacted him over Leivo, Florida contacted him over Gudbranson, Pittsburgh offered the Pearson for Gudbranson deal.

Tampa, just like Vegas, goes after the guy who will take the contracts and pay picks and not send back any money. It’s the Benning way.

credit for the deals. But context should matter when evaluating.

 

[pgj98m3]

Hot (and probably very unpopular) take:

Jake Virtanen with consistent top 6 ice time and PP time (not just 20 seconds of garbage time on a PP2 that never plays) is a confident, top 6 producing forward. Albeit, not a game changer and likely frustrating beyond belief at times.

Forget his draft position, forget the past, actually give him a chance to play here and at worst we raise his trade value from zero.

Maybe even give him a chance to play a professional Hockey game for a coach other than Travis Green (he probably has Green nightmares at this point) before casting him off for a horrific return.

So you’re saying he’s something that never been seen? Okay.

 

[Egghead1999]

Even the stupidest player could become a physical 4th liner. Jake could follow kassian's arc (not being a fighter as he sucks at it but being physical). He needed direction from the coach and the team but it seems he never got any. Ultimately its on him to have wasted his physical tools but it's on the team not having taken out of him at least something.

Does he want to?
As someone mentioned before, he did whatever he did to get an NHL job, and he was rewarded with a multi-year contract. There is no reason for him to change anything.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Even the stupidest player could become a physical 4th liner. Jake could follow kassian's arc (not being a fighter as he sucks at it but being physical). He needed direction from the coach and the team but it seems he never got any. Ultimately its on him to have wasted his physical tools but it's on the team not having taken out of him at least something.

i think the difference is, kassian got his own way a lot of the time but in general he's a decently smart player. he sees the ice well, knows where he needs to be, but was prone to lapses.

jake's lapses are a whole other kind of lapse, because he has to be fully dialed in just to get around the ice and do his job at a reasonable level. if his concentration slips at all, he's a liability.

i would compare him to sandlak. we got tantalized by the flashes and kept him around for way too long hoping he'd flip the switch inside his non-existent brain, then when he was finally traded away he played 73 more NHL games over three seasons before the league was done with him (and those last 33 games were with us, after a hartford team in the middle of a six season playoff drought didn't to retain him and we got him back for free).

i don't see him getting too many more chances after we finally let him go. when a guy has neither the on-ice instincts nor the work ethic, i don't think many teams will give him much more than the kind of shot where he'll have to outwork five other guys which, i mean come on it's jake.

 

[StreetHawk]

Does he want to?
As someone mentioned before, he did whatever he did to get an NHL job, and he was rewarded with a multi-year contract. There is no reason for him to change anything.

Kassian hit rock bottom in his personal life before he made the change that was reflected on ice. Kassian and Jake are not the type of guys that you can reward with long term deals. Have to keep them motivated and on a short leash to keep them on track.

His cap his is at $2.55 which is in line with aribitration eligible players like Fabbri, McCann, etc. based on the production last season, who got $3 mill per without going to arbitration. So, it's not an overpay in that regards. Just not a great structure of the contract to have the payment basically double for next season. Makes it harder to move.

Thing with Jake now is whether he's worth a protection spot in the ED if they keep him or can they trade him after the ED for something?

 

[SamInVan]

The problem with Greener is between the ears and can't be fixed.

+Myers

 

[canuckking1]

The problem with Greener is between the ears and can't be fixed. This has been evident for his entire time in a Canucks as a coach. He has been the exact same coach and has never changed his game since game 1.

This organization needs to bring in a team of smart people who can analyze advanced stats so we understand when a coach like Greener should be fired. In hindsight that was 2 years ago when he was on a winning streak and before increasing his contract value.

Hehe

Green's biggest problem is his lack of system and him always playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

 

[F A N]

Benning initiated Miller talks? Can you provide a link. I honestly don’t recall that.

I do recall Dubas contacted him over Leivo, Florida contacted him over Gudbranson, Pittsburgh offered the Pearson for Gudbranson deal.

Tampa, just like Vegas, goes after the guy who will take the contracts and pay picks and not send back any money. It’s the Benning way.

credit for the deals. But context should matter when evaluating.

I don't remember specifically who contacted who. I know that with Leivo, the Canucks had previously inquired so it's natural that Benning was one of Dubas' first call (especially since it's out of the conference and he promised Leivo he will trade him to a good situation). That's how negotiations often go. When Benning first called, Dubas wasn't interested in trading Leivo. When he was looking to deal Leivo he called Benning.

It's kind of funny how much focus you put into whether Benning technically "initiated" the call. I remember one concern with Gillis over the years was that he was not likeable and GMs didn't like dealing with him. The truth is that it's common for GMs not to shop players to every team. They often just call guys they like to deal with and or know will have interest and won't BS around.

We aren't privy to any of the discussions Benning has with GMs. We have frequently heard reports of Benning calling up other GMs. Even recently, it's been reported that every GM has heard from Benning. Maybe Benning doesn't ask for specific players or maybe he does. Maybe he just tells them what he's looking for. At the end of the day, the trade was made.

People naturally don't like to deal with people who like to kick the tires or make low ball offers. Those who tend to not BS around and make fair deals tend to be people others like to deal with. As much as we want a GM to squeeze as much out of every deal in the long run that might actually not be the best strategy.

 

[M2Beezy]

Green's biggest problem is his lack of system and him always playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

Id say his biggest problem is hes not an NHL coach

 

[MarkMM]

I’m tired of all of the excuses for this guy. At some point the responsibility falls on the player to come into camp in shape and play hard every single shift. The guy is making millions of dollars to play a game while there’s guys languishing in the minors who work twice as hard and would give anything to be in Virtanen’s position. If he wasn’t a high pick by this management group he would have been sent packing years ago and not been given all of these opportunities.

The problem with Greener is between the ears and can't be fixed. This has been evident for his entire time in a Canucks as a coach. He has been the exact same coach and has never changed his game since game 1.

This organization needs to bring in a team of smart people who can analyze advanced stats so we understand when a coach like Greener should be fired. In hindsight that was 2 years ago when he was on a winning streak and before increasing his contract value.

Hehe

I agree with both takes.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I'd be inclined to see if Jake can improve his game next year with a full offseason of training (back to routine) as well as with a new GM and coach.

I know it's 98% on Jake and his immaturity, but perhaps an experienced guy like Gallant can push the right buttons.

I don't ever think he'll be a top 6 guy but he's certainly better than this.

 

[The Vasili Jerry]

I can see the arguments that it's the organization's fault for not making Jake a better player (not putting him in the top 6 consistently, confidence things, getting him more help off the ice) but I can also see it from Green's perspective that he wants to win games and he's not going to make the team revolve around Virtanen -- if the team is better without Jake in the top 6 then a coach isn't just going to keep putting him there just for the sake of one guy over the team. Jake has had years to be a consistent player and put in the hard work to get better on his own. Successful individuals don't use excuses as to why they are where they are; they take it upon themselves to fix what has been holding them back. If Virtanen was a consistent player (wrt effort and IQ) then he'd for sure be in the top 6 permanently, but you just can't rely on him.

 

[F A N]

Said this before, one unknown with Jake is that outside of his rookie year with Willie, he hasn't played for another head coach. We don't know if another coach could get more out of Virtanen. Likely not but there's a chance.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

If Virtanen was a Gillis pick, Benning would have traded him along with a pick for someone worse and more expensive a long time ago.
Of course Gillis wanted to draft smart players so JV would have never been a Gillis pick in the first place.

 

[RandV]

Benning initiated Miller talks? Can you provide a link. I honestly don’t recall that.

I do recall Dubas contacted him over Leivo, Florida contacted him over Gudbranson, Pittsburgh offered the Pearson for Gudbranson deal.

Tampa, just like Vegas, goes after the guy who will take the contracts and pay picks and not send back any money. It’s the Benning way.

credit for the deals. But context should matter when evaluating.

I believe what happened is Tampa made it known at the draft they were shopping Miller for a 1st and 3rd, then Benning approached them and said here you go.

I've always speculated that Tampa set that price looking at a team like Colorado, who was needing a top six player and would eventually trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Andre Burakovsky. I highly doubt Tampa was expecting a lottery team to come up and take the deal straight up without negotiating. Realistically we probably didn't need to pay the asking price to land Miller, probably could have even kept the 1st. But I believe Benning was quoted saying something like 'we jumped on the deal because we didn't want to miss out'.

 

[iceburg]

to be honest Virtanen looks defeated out there. He wanders around until over a few game sthe pressure builds up. Then he has a few good shifts in a game and he's right back to wandering around. 11, 18, and 21 goal 82 game paces over the last 3 seasons. This is the year he should have turned in a 20/40 overall for the first time. And he's sitting at 1 point in 19. I think in his own mind he's just done here.

 

[timw33]

Lol