Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

[Cupless44]

Hornqvist for Virtanen + Roussel?

Boeser - Pettersson - Hornqvist would be a dirty ass line.

NO. In no scenario should this rebuilding team be trading 22 year olds for 30 year olds

 

[me2]

NO. In no scenario should this rebuilding team be trading 22 year olds for 30 year olds

Agreed. But then Jim says we need to more 30 yos as they are the key to winning the cup.

 

[Jimnastic]

Agreed he should be in our top 6. And I also am with you on the idea of him playing LW. He can play both but the coaching staff acts like he can only play RW.

I have been saying this all year. Jake has speed, hands, and toughness. Petey could use him like a Gretzky fire hydrant with those skills. I think this would get great value out of Jake with little downside for Petey. Jake can drive to the net or break for the net. If Petey expects just those two plays on offense, he can make use of that as a decoy, blinding the goalie, delivering a perfect pass. Endless opportunities.

 

[DFAC]

I have been saying this all year. Jake has speed, hands, and toughness. Petey could use him like a Gretzky fire hydrant with those skills. I think this would get great value out of Jake with little downside for Petey. Jake can drive to the net or break for the net. If Petey expects just those two plays on offense, he can make use of that as a decoy, blinding the goalie, delivering a perfect pass. Endless opportunities.

Not sure if you remember but this was tried last year and JV dragged Petey down like an anchor on his line.

I like JV but hes not a good fit with EP. iirc correctly Jake played his best hockey when centered by Sutter (someone correct me if Im wrong here)

 

[TruGr1t]

There is not much in point trading Virtanen. Terrible value for the pick, but at least he can handle a regular NHL shift. I wouldn't be opposed to trading him since he'll probably top out as an average third liner, but wouldn't just give him away for nothing (which is probably close to his value right now). He still has good skating and can probably become a checking asset with proper coaching. Plus he'll never be very expensive in terms of contract since I can't imagine he ever produces much over 30 points.

You have to shop him though, to see if someone's willing to materially overpay.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

if the Canucks could find a sucker willing to pay for Jake's "potential" they should absolutely trade him. But that won't happen. The Canucks are the sucker.

 

[I am toxic]

Not sure if you remember but this was tried last year and JV dragged Petey down like an anchor on his line.

I like JV but hes not a good fit with EP. iirc correctly Jake played his best hockey when centered by Sutter (someone correct me if Im wrong here)

Agreed, altho I felt JV played his best with Horvat and Bearcheese

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Agreed, altho I felt JV played his best with Horvat and Bearcheese

Still makes me shake my head how that line had 10 points in a preseason game once...and then was immediately broken up and never put back together again until months later when all the fluke chemistry had vanished. The next game after the 10 point one the line became Baertschi -- Vey -- Virtanen and did nothing. Zero. Gee, wonder who the weak link was there, huh? GJ, Willie D.

 

[I am toxic]

Still makes me shake my head how that line had 10 points in a preseason game once...and then was immediately broken up and never put back together again until months later when all the fluke chemistry had vanished. The next game after the 10 point one the line became Baertschi -- Vey -- Virtanen and did nothing. Zero. Gee, wonder who the weak link was there, huh? GJ, Willie D.

Yep.

I still shake my head thinking about that one.

 

[sting101]

For 2yrs Virtanen was barely surviving as a NHLer in any capacity yet you guys think he should have been strapped to Horvat and Baertschi because of a pre season game??

 

[ProstheticConscience]

For 2yrs Virtanen was barely surviving as a NHLer in any capacity yet you guys think he should have been strapped to Horvat and Baertschi because of a pre season game??

Do you think you can make a single post without making a straw man? Like, one?

 

[F A N]

Even if Virtanen plateaus at his current levels of offensive production, I would hang onto him and work on his defensive game. Try and turn him into a constructive third liner who can contribute the odd goal, be solid defensively, and provide a physical presence in the lineup. Those guys cost a premium when trying to acquire them later - so it makes sense to develop our own.

He has enough tools to be a positive contributor. I just hope we don’t give up and move on.

I agree. Take a player like Brett Connolly. High draft pick, never met expectations, but he ended up providing value on a Stanley Cup winning team.

Jake will be turning 23 next season and earning $1.25M AAV and coming of a 15 goal season. That's solid value.

I still think that Virtanen has the skills package, talent, and work ethic to get better by rounding out his game and finding a niche in the league.

 

[iceburg]

I agree. Take a player like Brett Connolly. High draft pick, never met expectations, but he ended up providing value on a Stanley Cup winning team.

Jake will be turning 23 next season and earning $1.25M AAV and coming of a 15 goal season. That's solid value.

I still think that Virtanen has the skills package, talent, and work ethic to get better by rounding out his game and finding a niche in the league.

Exactly this. The Canucks community (or any hockey community I guess) has a tendency to undervalue or overvalue their own players. History and expectations factor in. A 23 year old UFA who just scored 15 goals in 70 games and can skate like he does would be highly sought after. JV isn't a project like Etem, he's a young player that needs to grow in certain areas but still has upside.

 

[Bankerguy]

Virtanen is young, skates well, hits hard, scored 15 goals.
Will he be that 25 goal second line banger? NOPE.... but he could be valuable in a bottom 6 role, especially if he takes another step forward in his development this year. Readjust your expectations.

 

[DFAC]

I agree. Take a player like Brett Connolly. High draft pick, never met expectations, but he ended up providing value on a Stanley Cup winning team.

Jake will be turning 23 next season and earning $1.25M AAV and coming of a 15 goal season. That's solid value.

I still think that Virtanen has the skills package, talent, and work ethic to get better by rounding out his game and finding a niche in the league.

Virtanen is young, skates well, hits hard, scored 15 goals.
Will he be that 25 goal second line banger? NOPE.... but he could be valuable in a bottom 6 role, especially if he takes another step forward in his development this year. Readjust your expectations.

Exactly this. The Canucks community (or any hockey community I guess) has a tendency to undervalue or overvalue their own players. History and expectations factor in. A 23 year old UFA who just scored 15 goals in 70 games and can skate like he does would be highly sought after. JV isn't a project like Etem, he's a young player that needs to grow in certain areas but still has upside.

I honestly think if JV can pot 15-20 goals a year and be solid defensively that he'll be a valuable part of our team. I would like to see him play more physical... at times last year it looked like he would shy away from a hit at the very last minute. Not sure if this was due to injury or him worried about taking a penalty. Either way, I would like to see him throw more big clean hits and stick up for his teammates when needed (like he did in that game against Tampa Bay at home). If he puts it all together, he could easily turn the narrative 180 degrees and become a fan favorite here in Vancouver.

Another thing I'd like to see is JV in front of the net on the PP. I know he's historically known to score most of his goals off the rush but what is there to lose at this point in trying? Our PP often looks stale and predictable, anyways. He's a big body that could create havoc for other dmen and if he pots a few goals on the PP to start the year it could really do miles for his confidence (as he seems like a completely different player when he's playing with confidence and on his game).

 

[Cupless44]

Virtanen is young, skates well, hits hard, scored 15 goals.
Will he be that 25 goal second line banger? NOPE.... but he could be valuable in a bottom 6 role, especially if he takes another step forward in his development this year. Readjust your expectations.

I still think Jake has 20 goal potential and his speed and physicality make him a very useful player for this team. We should not give up on him at 22 for the value he would return at this time. He has improved incrementally the past 2 seasons, not just in goals but in his game a as a whole.

If they could ever get him to drive to the net with speed consistently...

 

[iceburg]

I honestly think if JV can pot 15-20 goals a year and be solid defensively that he'll be a valuable part of our team. I would like to see him play more physical... at times last year it looked like he would shy away from a hit at the very last minute. Not sure if this was due to injury or him worried about taking a penalty. Either way, I would like to see him throw more big clean hits and stick up for his teammates when needed (like he did in that game against Tampa Bay at home). If he puts it all together, he could easily turn the narrative 180 degrees and become a fan favorite here in Vancouver.

Another thing I'd like to see is JV in front of the net on the PP. I know he's historically known to score most of his goals off the rush but what is there to lose at this point in trying? Our PP often looks stale and predictable, anyways. He's a big body that could create havoc for other dmen and if he pots a few goals on the PP to start the year it could really do miles for his confidence (as he seems like a completely different player when he's playing with confidence and on his game).

It is curious that he sometimes shys away from a hit. I wonder if this has more to do with simple decision making. The knock has been hockey IQ, I think this could be part of that. He's unsure when to make the hit and when not to. He needs to be taught that, if in doubt, make the hit. The hits he does make are the ones he lines up well in advance. And this supports the decision making hypothesis.
I agree, if they could teach him to be net front on the PP, that would be a huge bonus and probably add another 5 goals a year to his total.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

I still think Jake has 20 goal potential and his speed and physicality make him a very useful player for this team. We should not give up on him at 22 for the value he would return at this time. He has improved incrementally the past 2 seasons, not just in goals but in his game a as a whole.

If they could ever get him to drive to the net with speed consistently...

One of the things that I thought he did a better job of this season, was creating a screen in front of the net. I also thought he did better with his shot selection/getting into better scoring areas. If he keeps making small improvements for a few more seasons, he'll become an important piece

 

[F A N]

Another thing I'd like to see is JV in front of the net on the PP. I know he's historically known to score most of his goals off the rush but what is there to lose at this point in trying? Our PP often looks stale and predictable, anyways. He's a big body that could create havoc for other dmen and if he pots a few goals on the PP to start the year it could really do miles for his confidence (as he seems like a completely different player when he's playing with confidence and on his game).

I suppose he can learn like Kesler did, but I don't think he's good there. He's thick but he's not really tall. He's not known to score garbage-type goals and he's not especially strong on the puck. Horvat I think is a better net front presence. He seems to have better hand eye coordination and he's a bull when it comes to going after loose pucks. He also has a much better history of scoring goals from in close.

 

[TruGr1t]

I still think Jake has 20 goal potential and his speed and physicality make him a very useful player for this team. We should not give up on him at 22 for the value he would return at this time. He has improved incrementally the past 2 seasons, not just in goals but in his game a as a whole.

If they could ever get him to drive to the net with speed consistently...

I dunno what you mean by "20 goal potential." If you mean he can hit it once or twice in his career like Jannik Hansen, I'd buy it. I don't think he'll be a regular 20-goal scorer, though. He's simply too limited offensively. He's also never going to generate much in the way of scoring chances for his linemates due to atrocious on-ice vision. The place he could potentially see a real improvement in his game is on the defensive side of the puck. If they can work on his two-way game he could be a valuable third-line winger.

 

[DFAC]

Did we ever try Gaudette with Virtanen last year?

I feel like they could be a good fit for each other. A playmaking winger would complete that line perfectly....Doonskoi?

 

[F A N]

I dunno what you mean by "20 goal potential." If you mean he can hit it once or twice in his career like Jannik Hansen, I'd buy it. I don't think he'll be a regular 20-goal scorer, though. He's simply too limited offensively. He's also never going to generate much in the way of scoring chances for his linemates due to atrocious on-ice vision. The place he could potentially see a real improvement in his game is on the defensive side of the puck. If they can work on his two-way game he could be a valuable third-line winger.

I think you can be limited offensively and still score 20 goals in the league. And not generating scoring chances for his linemates impacts his assist totals much more so than his goal totals.

With that said, it's anyone's guess as to the type of career Virtanen will end up having.

 

[4Twenty]

Did we ever try Gaudette with Virtanen last year?

I feel like they could be a good fit for each other. A playmaking winger would complete that line perfectly....Doonskoi?

Virtanen was Gaudette's most common forward linemate all season.

They started 80% of their shifts in the offensive zone yet got dominated in Shot Attempts, scoring chances.

 

[CanaFan]

I think you can be limited offensively and still score 20 goals in the league. And not generating scoring chances for his linemates impacts his assist totals much more so than his goal totals.

With that said, it's anyone's guess as to the type of career Virtanen will end up having.

I think it comes down to whether you mean a guy who hits 20+ a couple times in his career, or a guy who scores 20+ goals regularly. Both are “20 goal scorers” but have drastically different values to teams. Being able to count on a certain level of production is much more valuable than a Michael Grabner-type where you don’t really know what you’re going to get from year to year. And granted we don’t know which of those Jake is yet, but I get the feeling people are talking about different things when they debate his upside. I don’t think there is much doubt he will hit 20 goals at some point in his likely 10-15 year NHL career, it’s how often he will do it that is more contestable.

 

[DL44]

Quite the radio silence outta the Virtanen camp so far this summer..
He's learning.. heh...

Its a big summer for him... Can't wait to see how he comes into camp...