Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

[Hodgy]

You can’t just chalk it up to luck in his draft year because he did display some pretty elite goal scoring statistics before his draft as well.

No he didn't. He scored 16 goals in 62 games in his pre-draft year. Which isn't terrible production, but certainly isn't "elite goal scoring" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Hoghandler]

I think a big obstacle for that would be the optics of Miller as a third line centre after being a marquee acquisition who cost us a hefty price. In that kind of role, he's probably a 40 point player, and might make JB/FAQ look bad. Based on that factor I would think we see Miller riding shotgun with Horvat at ES, and getting PP1 time.

Based on that factor? Not based on the fact he's the Canucks 2nd best winger?

 

[RobertKron]

No he didn't. He scored 16 goals in 62 games in his pre-draft year. Which isn't terrible production, but certainly isn't "elite goal scoring" by any stretch of the imagination.

I mean, he scored a shitload of goals in bantam, but so does basically every potential elite talent.

 

[Hoghandler]

No he didn't. He scored 16 goals in 62 games in his pre-draft year. Which isn't terrible production, but certainly isn't "elite goal scoring" by any stretch of the imagination.

Didn't the Hitmen draft Virtanen 1st overall in the bantam draft?

His shot blew coaches away when he was 15-16 years old. He shot the puck like a man at 15.

 

[Hodgy]

I mean, he scored a ****load of goals in bantam, but so does basically every potential elite talent.

I sort of figured this was coming....and see below.

Didn't the Hitmen draft Virtanen 1st overall in the bantam draft?

His shot blew coaches away when he was 15-16 years old. He shot the puck like a man at 15.

Brendan Gaunce was drafted first overall in the OHL draft. Sauve was drafted first overall in the QMJHL draft. Bantam statistics are not that reliable, and quality of competition diverges depending on the particular bantam league. It just isn't very meaningful that Virtanen was an elite goal scorer in Bantam, especially when we have a decent sample size in the WHL that shows, most likely, his draft year was an aberration.

 

[timw33]

Based on that factor? Not based on the fact he's the Canucks 2nd best winger?

My post was in response to the idea of running 3 lines with Miller anchoring the 3rd line as a centre. I think the Canucks will put him on the top two lines and give him ample PP time to avoid the optics of him playing on the third line, even if it is "3 scoring lines" (something I won't believe until I see it in practice for the majority of the season).

 

[Hoghandler]

My post was in response to the idea of running 3 lines with Miller anchoring the 3rd line as a centre. I think the Canucks will put him on the top two lines and give him ample PP time to avoid the optics of him playing on the third line, even if it is "3 scoring lines" (something I won't believe until I see it in practice for the majority of the season).

So you believe it's optics, not the fact Miller is our 2nd best winger?

We paid a similar price for Erik Gudbranson and Travis Green played him sparingly, not to mention Green never hesitated to line Loui Eriksson up on the 4th line.

If Miller is riding shotgun with Bo, it's because Green believes that gives the team the best chance to win.

 

[MS]

I'm not as down on Sutter as a lot of posters here are..His line mates will most likely be Baertschi/Pearson and Virtanen..That's not the worst case scenario.

The whole offensive 'black hole' bit is over emphasized.

Sutter has had two full NHL seasons playing 16+ minutes as a #2-3 center where he had 2 or fewer primary assists for the entire season. The guy is arguably the biggest black hole playing non-4th line minutes in the NHL and craters everyone who plays with him.

He does have things he does well but everything he does is an individual effort from broken play. It's difficult to imagine a player who works worth with a set of linemates or is less suited for offensive situations at center.

I can't help but think the only reason has wasn't shifted to the wing ten years ago is te name on the back of his sweater. Guy's skillset screams move me to rw.

Agreed 100%.

A shoot-first speedy winger with limited hockey sense is a thing.

A shoot-first center who once went an entire season without passing the puck to a teammate for a goal is not really a thing.

 

[Hit the post]

I sort of figured this was coming....and see below.



Brendan Gaunce was drafted first overall in the OHL draft. Sauve was drafted first overall in the QMJHL draft. Bantam statistics are not that reliable, and quality of competition diverges depending on the particular bantam league. It just isn't very meaningful that Virtanen was an elite goal scorer in Bantam, especially when we have a decent sample size in the WHL that shows, most likely, his draft year was an aberration.

I think Willie Mitchell had some pretty solid offensive skills in bantam (I'm going by memory, so I could be suffering from old age lol) & look how he turned out. Well above NHL average defensive defenseman.

 

[Hit the post]

I can't help but think the only reason has wasn't shifted to the wing ten years ago is the name on the back of his sweater. Guy's skillset screams move me to rw.

The thing is, he doesn't actually really play like a 'typical Sutter'. I still think he's a decent defensive 3C though.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I'm not as down on Sutter as a lot of posters here are..His line mates will most likely be Baertschi/Pearson and Virtanen..That's not the worst case scenario.

The whole offensive 'black hole' bit is over emphasized.

Sutter is an OK defensive player who I am just fine with when he is used in that role. But his offensive shortcomings are far from over emphasized. Ignoring the stats that MS posted (which are bad enough) his first full season in Vancouver where Willie D was insistent on using him in an offensive role provided more than enough evidence to my own eyes that the guy has no passing game. Doesn’t matter if the other guy is wide open with an empty net - Brandon’s gonna shoot.

 

[VanJack]

Virtanen's 15 goal season last year wasn't bad, considering he gets zero power-play time and was shuffled through a half-dozen lines with a bunch of different centers. Play him with a decent play-making center and I could see him hitting 20-goals easily.

 

[The Drop]

Virtanen's 15 goal season last year wasn't bad, considering he gets zero power-play time and was shuffled through a half-dozen lines with a bunch of different centers. Play him with a decent play-making center and I could see him hitting 20-goals easily.

Ya, he had 3 ENG I believe and if you think those shinpad deflections or prayers from the corner are gonna keep going in...

 

[Hoghandler]

Ya, he had 3 ENG I believe and if you think those shinpad deflections or prayers from the corner are gonna keep going in...

He only had 2 empty net goals, shot under 10% and had 13 even strength goals.

You also have to factor in the quality of the team he played on, specifically the poor defense and lack of it's transition game. He had that season on a team that was being buried possession wise, with dmen that couldn't get the puck to the forwards in stride. The additions of Hughes and Myers alone should help the forward group get more opportunities off the rush, which is what Jake's game is built off of. The radically improved forward group as well should help keep the puck in the attacking zone more frequently.

He did have some lucky bounces go his way. But there were also a bunch of factors that didn't play into his hands as well. Guy sure seemed to hit a lot of posts last season too...

 

[M2Beezy]

Im guessing 16 goals 12 assists this year

 

[Hit the post]

Play him with a decent play-making center and I could see him hitting 20-goals easily.

I don't know about easily but him scoring 20 goals wouldn't surprise me if he had EP has his center.

 

[Icebreakers]

Virtanen's 15 goal season last year wasn't bad, considering he gets zero power-play time and was shuffled through a half-dozen lines with a bunch of different centers. Play him with a decent play-making center and I could see him hitting 20-goals easily.

Virtanen doesn't get into scoring areas and has never had chemistry with a center in his career since he's been in the WHL. He's a do it myself kind of player. Giving him a playmaking center would be a waste.

 

[Hoghandler]

Virtanen doesn't get into scoring areas and has never had chemistry with a center in his career since he's been in the WHL. He's a do it myself kind of player. Giving him a playmaking center would be a waste.

Agreed. Which is why I think he should be lining up next to Sutter. Sutter and Virtanen play the same offensive game - skate fast, shoot the puck. Won't hurt Jake having Sutter as his centre, while Sutter doesn't need playmaking wingers to get his shot off. Throw Leivo on that line, another guy that likes to skate with the puck and get his shot off and you've got the makings of a decent trio with size, defensive acumen and some scoring ability in the bottom 6.

 

[mathonwy]

Such a big disappointment.

 

[absolute garbage]

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

He wILL ScOrE 20GOalS THIs sEaSoN

 

[krutovsdonut]

The thing is, he doesn't actually really play like a 'typical Sutter'. I still think he's a decent defensive 3C though.

every sutter was a natural 3c or 3w. some had the skill to play up from there but that's where you would put those guys if you are assembling a dream team.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I don't know about easily but him scoring 20 goals wouldn't surprise me if he had EP has his center.

i think i had him down for 20 last year.

cue intro to who song...

 

[Breakers]

So he's fat again

nice.

 

[MikeK]

His career with the Canucks is coming to an end. It's almost at that point where both parties are ready for a fresh start. Looks like a terrible pick for Van at that position.