Player Discussion Jake Virtanen Part 2

[Shareefruck]

Power forward in his early twenties with size and wicked wheels whos developing a little slower than desired...

Jake Virtuzzi.

Other than being big physical guys who struggled with professionalism/work ethic, the two really have nothing in common.

Bertuzzi had high end skill and hockey sense to go with hulking strength, which he used more for puck possession/body position than anything else. He didn't have the speed to play the way Virtanen does.

Virtanen has speed and a shot to go with his physicality, which is used more for assertive/aggressive forechecking/net crashing than anything else. He doesn't have the natural skill/brains to play the way that Bertuzzi did.

 

[bossram]

Still talking about him being the wrong pick ? Move on for crying out loud.

It's not like Pro-BenningBrods ever move on from saying "see, JV actually was a good pick" every time he scores a goal.

There was literally nothing to take umbrage with in my post. I stated two facts: 1) JV is trending up and looking a like a useful/valuable contributor, and 2) He was not the right pick at the time.

Both are true.

 

[Cupless44]

I’d like to see him score some prettier goals.
These 10 ugly goals should be discounted like the Canadian dollar to 7.5 pretty goals.

First (well not first, we have to hear about Nylander and Ehlers first always) it is that Jake is not scoring enough. Now that he is on pace for over 20 goals, it is that all his goals are ugly.

His 9th goal didn't look that ugly to me.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Bertuzzi had high end skill and hockey sense to go with hulking strength

Disagree, Todd was a monster power forward who was hard to move from the front of the net and had great hands for a hulking winger...but he was not blessed with hockey sense. He played with 2 guys that did however.

 

[keslerburrows]

I bought the #shotgunjake tee. $5 goes to Canucks for Kids fund.

shotgunjake.com

 

[DL44]

I bought the #shotgunjake tee. $5 goes to Canucks for Kids fund.

shotgunjake.com

ha ha.. that's awesome..

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

He's getting himself in better shooting positions than he has in recent years. It's helped him get a couple ugly goals. He's also hit some posts/crossbars on some high quality scoring chances. I don't really think he's been that lucky. He's just better.

 

[DL44]

I guess Mr. Jackson's trademark has expired...
They better hope so anyway...

 

[DL44]

He's getting himself in better shooting positions than he has in recent years. It's helped him get a couple ugly goals. He's also hit some posts/crossbars on some high quality scoring chances. I don't really think he's been that lucky. He's just better.

He got rewarded for making the right play.. chased the loose puck, knew he had players going to the net, shot the puck to get a rebound and hopefully create a scramble... Smart play at the end of the day - rewarded for it with a goal.

Keep on doing it... maybe next time its an assist from some crease chaos.

 

[F A N]

Other than being big physical guys who struggled with professionalism/work ethic, the two really have nothing in common.

Bertuzzi had high end skill and hockey sense to go with hulking strength, which he used more for puck possession/body position than anything else. He didn't have the speed to play the way Virtanen does.

Virtanen has speed and a shot to go with his physicality, which is used more for assertive/aggressive forechecking/net crashing than anything else. He doesn't have the natural skill/brains to play the way that Bertuzzi did.

Disagree, Todd was a monster power forward who was hard to move from the front of the net and had great hands for a hulking winger...but he was not blessed with hockey sense. He played with 2 guys that did however.

Ya. Todd's hockey sense was comparable to that of Lindros'. They didn't have great hockey sense by today's standards, but they didn't really need it.

 

[Shareefruck]

Disagree, Todd was a monster power forward who was hard to move from the front of the net and had great hands for a hulking winger...but he was not blessed with hockey sense. He played with 2 guys that did however.

Ya. Todd's hockey sense was comparable to that of Lindros'. They didn't have great hockey sense by today's standards, but they didn't really need it.

I would agree that Bertuzzi never had outright ELITE hockey sense/awareness the way that Naslund, the Sedins, Pettersson, and to some degree maybe even Morrison did, but it was still pretty strong (easily superior to someone like Lindros, whose lack of on-ice awareness arguably cost him his career).

It was the furthest thing from an outright weakness like it is for Virtanen (even though his overall game has improved, that aspect hasn't really changed).

Bertuzzi at least had superior hockey sense/awareness over guys like Bo Horvat, Nikolai Goldobin, Sven Baertschi, and Chris Higgins, IMO, and it's a relative strength for most of these guys.

Maybe a better contrasting quality would be "vision" and "playmaking ability", which is surely leaps and bounds superior. But I think superior awareness and hockey sense is part of it as well.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

easily superior to someone like Lindros, whose lack of on-ice awareness arguably cost him his career

Oh man I agree with you on this point, watching Stevens lay him out centre ice was hard to watch. It happened to him 6 or 7 times too, so not just a chance hit...he kept his head down over and over carrying the puck through the neutral...not smart.

 

[Shareefruck]

Oh man I agree with you on this point, watching Stevens lay him out centre ice was hard to watch. It happened to him 6 or 7 times too, so not just a chance hit...he kept his head down over and over carrying the puck through the neutral...not smart.

Yeah. I've honestly never seen such an elite, ultra-talented and dominant player in any sport with such a fundamental and basic crippling weakness.

I'd argue that Bertuzzi's hockey sense (at least everywhere besides the defensive zone) was more comparable to someone like prime Trevor Linden. Not elite, but still an overall strength.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Yeah. I've honestly never seen such an elite, ultra-talented and dominant player in any sport with such a fundamental and basic crippling weakness.

He was pegged as the next Mario/Wayne during his Junior years...he was so much bigger he simply over powered everyone and had such gifted hands and scoring touch. Such a shame that he fizzled quickly after his Philly days and never became the dominant player we all thought he would be.

He likely played with his head down during his younger days as most others his age would literally bounced off him...bad habit that started early and never corrected. Just had to keep his head up.

Side note: I honestly think Scott Stevens was the scariest defender I have seen play...he would take such pleasure in destroying guys in open ice then taunt the bench "you're next" with that icy stare. A different time and much different league.

Apologies to the thread very off topic.

 

[garbageteam]

Man I'm really liking the throwback vibes of 90s hockey I'm getting through reading this thread. Better than re-hashes of JV's draft position.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

If he can become a 20-20 player as well as continuing to be a physical force I'll be happy. Ngl I was one of the people who thought he was a complete bust.

My original bet (at the beginning of the season) was that he would be a 20/20 guy this year. I had also figured that he might have an absolute optimistic peak as a 30/30 guy. I'm beginning to realize, though, that his numbers will probably always be a bit Cy Young-ish.
So, 25/15 this year with a peak of 35/25... 37/23... or something like that.

 

[bossram]

First (well not first, we have to hear about Nylander and Ehlers first always) it is that Jake is not scoring enough. Now that he is on pace for over 20 goals, it is that all his goals are ugly.

His 9th goal didn't look that ugly to me.

He's using a sarcasm emoji man...

 

[bandwagonesque]

Oh so you dont think there actually is a Pro / Anti Benning "crowds" who you are lumping in to one in your post. Cool.

Of course there is -- you're well aware of it, and you are in fact trying to serve the ends of one of them by pretending not to be, and we know you're doing it.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Of course there is -- you're well aware of it, and you are in fact trying to serve the ends of one of them by pretending not to be, and we know you're doing it.

Now you lost me... Can you please be more specific.

What am I pretending to be or not to be and to what end?

 

[bandwagonesque]

Now you lost me... Can you please be more specific.

What am I pretending to be or not be and to what end?

You seemed to be implying there aren't pro/anti-Benning factions on the board. There are entire threads basically devoted to hoping the Canucks lose primarily so Benning gets fired. Management threads are nothing but the same posters periodically reminding each other than Benning is a poor GM. These same posters often dismiss the notion that they act or think of one accord.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You seemed to be implying there aren't pro/anti-Benning factions on the board. There are entire threads basically devoted to hoping the Canucks lose primarily so Benning gets fired. Management threads are nothing but the same posters periodically reminding each other than Benning is a poor GM. These same posters often dismiss the notion that they act or think of one accord.

Its just an opinion people hold or dont hold. You should not use it as a predictor of what other opinions they hold. You make it sound like its a political party where being part of the party affects the rest of your "votes."

There seems to be overlap of affinity for advanced statistical analysis and hate for Benning but that might not even be true.

Im pretending what exactly..?

 

[Regal]

What is the value ratio of an ugly goal to a pretty goal?

This is a thing now, right?

Ugly goals aren't worth less, but there is a question of sustainability around those types of goals, especially when a player has never scored at that level before.

 

[DL44]

Ugly goals aren't worth less, but there is a question of sustainability around those types of goals, especially when a player has never scored at that level before.

Shoulda added some sort of rectorical question symbol, eh..
Or the sarcasm emoji...
My bad..

 

[Melvin]

Jake played well last year. Only scored on 7% of his shots. Now he's scoring on 13% of his shots. Yes, some goals have been fluky but that's what happens. You get pucks on goal and you get some luck. Last year he didn't really get the luck. This year he is. It's.... Kinda boring really.

 

[Regal]

Shoulda added some sort of rectorical question symbol, eh..
Or the sarcasm emoji...
My bad..

I was just taking your name at face value