Player Discussion Jake DeBrusk VIII

[goldnblack]

under 5 ????

I’m 6/40

Go to cap friendly and tell me on the UFA list which player better than him is coming in under 5 who is good

I landed on 0.0

Bergeron & Pastrnak want him here I’m good with that

This is your error I think. You're trying to replace exactly Debrusk next year with a UFA. And you're trying under 5 (which let's be honest is somewhat arbitrary). And you're trying to get an exactly Debrusk player, also arbitrary. Someone else on the team can play his PK minutes from the bottom 6. That's not irreplaceable.

For the sake of some quality hockey talk, just on UFA, let's moneyball it:

Bertuzzi two years at 5M
or
Henrique two years at 4.85M?
or
Anthony Duclair 3 years at...4.5M?
or
Warren Foegle 3 years at 3.25M? (plays on Drai's wing)

If someone does decide to give Debrusk 6.5 to 7+M, how many points are our replacement guys coming in at below him? For some of those names the answer might be 0. For some maybe.....7? You can't look at that and feel comfortable that Debrusk outscores Duclair by 15 goals or 20+ pts on our squad. And that's the problem.

We don't need to find exactly Debrusk next year. We have to find 25 goals, plus or minus 5 goals.

 

[BruinDust]

This is your error I think. You're trying to replace exactly Debrusk next year with a UFA. And you're trying under 5 (which let's be honest is somewhat arbitrary). And you're trying to get an exactly Debrusk player, also arbitrary. Someone else on the team can play his PK minutes from the bottom 6. That's not irreplaceable.

For the sake of some quality hockey talk, just on UFA, let's moneyball it:

Bertuzzi two years at 5M
or
Henrique two years at 4.85M?
or
Anthony Duclair 3 years at...4.5M?
or
Warren Foegle 3 years at 3.25M? (plays on Drai's wing)

If someone does decide to give Debrusk 6.5 to 7+M, how many points are our replacement guys coming in at below him? For some of those names the answer might be 0. For some maybe.....7? You can't look at that and feel comfortable that Debrusk outscores Duclair by 15 goals or 20+ pts on our squad. And that's the problem.

We don't need to find exactly Debrusk next year. We have to find 25 goals, plus or minus 5 goals.

That's a good point. When looking at whether to extend Debrusk or not, look at the alternatives. I think the same philosophy was applied to the Peeke acquisition. The market for physical RD this summer is pretty much a wasteland.

For as frustrating as Debrusk is to watch, to see him leave and hand over contracts to any of the names mentioned above is flat out nauseating. Like I don't want to see any of those players in Bruin uniforms. Bad enough I had to experience Tyler Bertuzzi as a Bruin once, I have no desire to see it again.

I'm fine letting Debrusk walk but the money freed up better be used for actual upgrades, not for B and C level options. Honestly letting Debrusk walk over money/term just to hand it over to lesser options screams the same plug-in-play philosophy that Sinden and MOC used here in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I remember when they drew a hard line in the sand on Anson Carter because they had signed Andrei Kovalenko that summer and he's was just going to replace Carter's production.

 

[Patdud]

under 5 ????

I’m 6/40

Go to cap friendly and tell me on the UFA list which player better than him is coming in under 5 who is good

I landed on 0.0

Bergeron & Pastrnak want him here I’m good with that

I would love if he signed the Zacha deal at 4.75, but im sure hes asking for something closer to the Hagel deal.

Id like him to be right in the middle of the zacha and coyle deals, 6yr @5 mil but I know hell want more. 5.5 is the max I go but I personally dont want him to walk.

Signing a Center for more than 7 million and signing Swayman for 7 million is going to eat up the money really fast. takes you out of going after Hanifin (assuming he doesnt sign in Vegas). Can find a cheaper option at LD for what they need, although at the same time I've been itching to see a Marchand - Coyle - Frederic line for a chunk of time. That would let you know if you can move on from JD in the offseason.

looking at the numbers its likely they have a four options:
1) resign swayman, trade ullmark, let JD walk and make upgrades at Center and LD
2) resign swayman, trade ullmark, keep JD, upgrade center and cheap LD
3) resign swayman, trade ullmark, keep JD, upgrade LD and stick with Coyle/Zacha
4) trade swayman, keep ullmark, keep JD, upgrade center and LD

Im fine with either 2 or 4 (assuming the return is equal to the player being traded). Id imagine the bruins are more comfortable with 3 or 1

 

[BergyWho37]

6.67 million AAV?

I think if the Bruins were to offer that, Jake's agent would have said draw up the contract right now.

Just my two cents worth.

I've said it a thousand times, JDB is at his best when he has stability. Stability in life, teammates, linemates and position. History speaks.

I actually thi k he will be ok when he signs a deal. Question is what that deal is worth.

Dom there’s really no point. Blinders are on with DeBrusk, they rather blame him for everything then acknowledge the situation he’s been put in or going through and I’m not even defending his streaky play he’s made 4 mil the past two year even less before that and the pitchforks have always been pointed towards him.

This year cause of his UFA status people are going bonkers some even suggest he’ll get 7mil and honestly I’m thinking they’re trolling to get a response and sure maybe I’m out to lunch cause of the cap going up but I highly doubt he’ll push past 6mil and if he does it won’t be with the Bruins.

To me any goal scorer around 20 to 30 usually go on streaks so I don’t care who we bring in to replace him but expect the same Hot and Cold play.

 

[Babajingo]

I would love if he signed the Zacha deal at 4.75, but im sure hes asking for something closer to the Hagel deal.

Id like him to be right in the middle of the zacha and coyle deals, 6yr @5 mil but I know hell want more. 5.5 is the max I go but I personally dont want him to walk.

Signing a Center for more than 7 million and signing Swayman for 7 million is going to eat up the money really fast. takes you out of going after Hanifin (assuming he doesnt sign in Vegas). Can find a cheaper option at LD for what they need, although at the same time I've been itching to see a Marchand - Coyle - Frederic line for a chunk of time. That would let you know if you can move on from JD in the offseason.

looking at the numbers its likely they have a four options:
1) resign swayman, trade ullmark, let JD walk and make upgrades at Center and LD
2) resign swayman, trade ullmark, keep JD, upgrade center and cheap LD
3) resign swayman, trade ullmark, keep JD, upgrade LD and stick with Coyle/Zacha
4) trade swayman, keep ullmark, keep JD, upgrade center and LD

Im fine with either 2 or 4 (assuming the return is equal to the player being traded). Id imagine the bruins are more comfortable with 3 or 1

resign swayman, trade ullmark, let JD and Gryz walk. Upgrade D.
The more I watch this team the more I think D needs some major upgrading. Maybe it'll change now that Hampus is back.
The catch at C is that if Patrois is back, where do you put him? If you get a 1/2C that moves the 2 back a line. Does that mean Poitras gets 4th line time? Just thinking.
There is no way that I would want JD's inconsistency/loafing on the top 6. If he wants to take bottom 6 money, thats fine.

 

[Patdud]

resign swayman, trade ullmark, let JD and Gryz walk. Upgrade D.
The more I watch this team the more I think D needs some major upgrading. Maybe it'll change now that Hampus is back.
The catch at C is that if Patrois is back, where do you put him? If you get a 1/2C that moves the 2 back a line. Does that mean Poitras gets 4th line time? Just thinking.
There is no way that I would want JD's inconsistency/loafing on the top 6. If he wants to take bottom 6 money, thats fine.

Zacha becomes LW on line 1.

 

[Alicat]

I like you so don’t take it personally

I’m purging all DeBrusk haters

You love me. At least I am consistent.

There’s no “getting rid of him at the draft”. There’s no trade for him any more. You either sign him or let him walk.

If he has a semi decent end of the season and playoffs you can absolutely move him at the draft likely in a larger deal to get max return.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

You love me. At least I am consistent.


If he has a semi decent end of the season and playoffs you can absolutely move him at the draft likely in a larger deal to get max return.

The only way someone trades for his rights is to get the ability to give him an 8 year deal. That's probably not in play here. There's no reason to trade for him.

 

[Alicat]

The only way someone trades for his rights is to get the ability to give him an 8 year deal. That's probably not in play here. There's no reason to trade for him.

There is always a team especially at the draft.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Dom there’s really no point. Blinders are on with DeBrusk, they rather blame him for everything then acknowledge the situation he’s been put in or going through and I’m not even defending his streaky play he’s made 4 mil the past two year even less before that and the pitchforks have always been pointed towards him.

This year cause of his UFA status people are going bonkers some even suggest he’ll get 7mil and honestly I’m thinking they’re trolling to get a response and sure maybe I’m out to lunch cause of the cap going up but I highly doubt he’ll push past 6mil and if he does it won’t be with the Bruins.

To me any goal scorer around 20 to 30 usually go on streaks so I don’t care who we bring in to replace him but expect the same Hot and Cold play.

That's the thing. Everyone knows he's gonna be streaky in scoring, like you said it comes with the territory with a 20-30 goal guy.

The issue is effort shouldn't be streaky. That's the one thing he can control on the ice and he has shown a chronic issue in bringing the effort every night. That is a legitimate issue. No one is asking him to be Pastrnak, just put in consistent effort instead of being invisible on the ice every time he has a case of the mondays

 

[Babajingo]

Zacha becomes LW on line 1.

Good point. Forgot about that.

So that would mean that the B's would need a top6 RW if they don't keep JDB. Is that Frederic, Geekie? Both have about the same production at much lower costs.

 

[Dr Hook]

Good point. Forgot about that.

So that would mean that the B's would need a top6 RW if they don't keep JDB. Is that Frederic, Geekie? Both have about the same production at much lower costs.

Or Lysell- would be a great time to try him out in the pros as a scoring RW.

 

[CellyHard]

I would love if he signed the Zacha deal at 4.75, but im sure hes asking for something closer to the Hagel deal.

Id like him to be right in the middle of the zacha and coyle deals, 6yr @5 mil but I know hell want more. 5.5 is the max I go but I personally dont want him to walk.

Signing a Center for more than 7 million and signing Swayman for 7 million is going to eat up the money really fast. takes you out of going after Hanifin (assuming he doesnt sign in Vegas). Can find a cheaper option at LD for what they need, although at the same time I've been itching to see a Marchand - Coyle - Frederic line for a chunk of time. That would let you know if you can move on from JD in the offseason.

looking at the numbers its likely they have a four options:
1) resign swayman, trade ullmark, let JD walk and make upgrades at Center and LD
2) resign swayman, trade ullmark, keep JD, upgrade center and cheap LD
3) resign swayman, trade ullmark, keep JD, upgrade LD and stick with Coyle/Zacha
4) trade swayman, keep ullmark, keep JD, upgrade center and LD

Im fine with either 2 or 4 (assuming the return is equal to the player being traded). Id imagine the bruins are more comfortable with 3 or 1

Option 1 is the most obvious route to take. Get assets for Ullmark (you aren’t paying 12m + for goalies)

Let JD and Gryz walk - Lysell and Lohrei replace.

Sign a really good center (Lindholm, Stephenson) and a defenseman (Hanifin, Skjei, Zadorov)

Add toughness

 

[goldnblack]

That's a good point. When looking at whether to extend Debrusk or not, look at the alternatives. I think the same philosophy was applied to the Peeke acquisition. The market for physical RD this summer is pretty much a wasteland.

For as frustrating as Debrusk is to watch, to see him leave and hand over contracts to any of the names mentioned above is flat out nauseating. Like I don't want to see any of those players in Bruin uniforms. Bad enough I had to experience Tyler Bertuzzi as a Bruin once, I have no desire to see it again.

I'm fine letting Debrusk walk but the money freed up better be used for actual upgrades, not for B and C level options. Honestly letting Debrusk walk over money/term just to hand it over to lesser options screams the same plug-in-play philosophy that Sinden and MOC used here in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I remember when they drew a hard line in the sand on Anson Carter because they had signed Andrei Kovalenko that summer and he's was just going to replace Carter's production.

The idea of spending less at his roster spot is so that you have more to spend at another. Somewhere, you're going to get your upgrade. Hockey is great in that you don't need 2-3 max money players like the NBA to get your ring. So the money we save here we will spread elsewhere. We're ALWAYS a cap (ceiling) team. I genuinely don't recall the last time we didn't spend to the very top.

 

[Absurdity]

If I'm Bruins, most I offer is Marchand's contract.

 

[bruinsfan1968]

Last season JDB has 50 pts in 65 games, played 16:46 TOI.
This season in 66 games 33 pts, same TOI 16:46, all other numbers are down.
I don't think that is worth a Marchand contract, not even Coyle for that matter.
IMO

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

There's plenty of wingers available every July 1 that provide the same (or better) production as JDB.
If he wants $6M+, he can walk for all I care.

 

[TD Charlie]

If I'm Bruins, most I offer is Marchand's contract.

Too high. Is there really no other way to spend 6+?

 

[UncleRico]

I’m firm on $5m max

He’s been a 40-45 point guy one year a little below, one above and then this year but mostly 40-45.

All while getting all the opportunity in the world.

As a top 6 player with PP time you should be more than a 40-45 point player on average. Given his playoff success I would give him $5m. But it’s not hard to find guys to accumulate 40-45 lines pulling the deployments he does.

 

[Hookslide]

under 5 ????

I’m 6/40

Go to cap friendly and tell me on the UFA list which player better than him is coming in under 5 who is good

I landed on 0.0

Bergeron & Pastrnak want him here I’m good with that

What has Bergeron have to do with it now.

Too high. Is there really no other way to spend 6+?

I am not sure what Jake will sign for, if he even signs, but my take is see what he wants and look around and see what is available to replace him and what is their cost. In the end who knows Jake but be the best option............This is a signing we will all discuss until he either sins or walks.......And then everyone will blame Sweeney for letting him walk or for signing him, nature of the beast and we are the beast......

 

[KnightofBoston]

What has Bergeron have to do with it now.

I am not sure what Jake will sign for, if he even signs, but my take is see what he wants and look around and see what is available to replace him and what is their cost. In the end who knows Jake but be the best option............This is a signing we will all discuss until he either sins or walks.......And then everyone will blame Sweeney for letting him walk or for signing him, nature of the beast and we are the beast......

Yea I'm sure Bergeron's opinion has zero bearing for that front office

 

[BruinDust]

I'm fine with an AAV in the 6-ish range. In a league where guys are getting 12-13 million and a salary cap expected to hit 87-88 million next year, 6 mill isn't top tier pay anymore and is more in line with mid-level guys like Debrusk.

It's the term that is the real enemy here. I'm not giving Jake Debrusk 6-7-8 years. Just as a point of principle I cannot justify it for mid-tier, non-core players.

IF, IF the Bruins want the player back (I'm fine either way), if they signed him say 30 million over 5 years (6 AAV), I could live with that for this player.

 

[Absurdity]

Last season JDB has 50 pts in 65 games, played 16:46 TOI.
This season in 66 games 33 pts, same TOI 16:46, all other numbers are down.
I don't think that is worth a Marchand contract, not even Coyle for that matter.
IMO

That's the issue with DeBrusk. He was supposed to grow into being Marchand's replacement in the lineup, but he is inconsistent from game to game. If he was being paid and depended on being the #6 forward in the top 6, then that's fine, but he is meant to be the 2nd best winger on the team. Maybe if he finishes the season strong and has a good playoffs he'll get around $6M, which I think he may get only because of the cap increase inflating contracts, but that's a lot of maybes coming from a player with inconsistencies.

Too high. Is there really no other way to spend 6+?

Without knowing what deals fell through at the deadline for Boston and if we are looking at forwards, I would say yes. Although I don't believe Lindholm moves the needle as much for the Bruins as currently constructed, he would be more valuable to the Bruins than DeBrusk is.

 

[NeelyDan]

I hate the idea of rewarding his kind of performance to be honest

But I don’t see a realistic alternative

 

[Gifu]

You don't have to sign him or even get a replacement. My point is that next season the top-9 could look like this without DeBrusk:

Zacha - X - Pastrnak
Marchand - Coyle - Frederic
Geekie - Poitras - Lysell/X (X means mostly acquisition)

DeBrusk and Frederic are different players with different strengths. But don't you think Frederic could replace DeBrusk's contribution?

At the same time, the team saves salary cap space that can be used elsewhere.