Player Discussion Jacob Markstrom

[Hit the post]

We never got one of the two top picks. I'm not going to feel bad for Detroit. Zadina might develop into an elite level type scorer (but likely not).

Detroit got a good chunk of their cups in the 'original six' era because there was essentially only one US team. Detroit, owned/controlled directly/indirectly *all* the other US teams. **** the Dead Wings.

 

[yvrtojfk]

What's the recent news on Markstrom re-signing?

 

[VanJack]

Not to deny the awful UFA signings but how is this related to walking away from Markstrom and Tanev if they are asking for too much in regards to term? It doesn't matter if the team had 100k in cap space or 30M, they be wise to walk away from signing Tanev for 5 years and from signing Markstrom for any amount beyond 4 years.

Surely you're not suggesting that if the Canucks didn't have Eriksson ($6m); Sutter ($4.4m); Baertschi ($3.2m); Roussel ($3m); and Beagle ($3m) on the books, that they'd still walk away from Markstrom and Tanev.

It's not the 'term' that's the deal-breaker. With a flat cap of $81.5m, the Canucks have no money left.

 

[StreetHawk]

Surely you're not suggesting that if the Canucks didn't have Eriksson ($6m); Sutter ($4.4m); Baertschi ($3.2m); Roussel ($3m); and Beagle ($3m) on the books, that they'd still walk away from Markstrom and Tanev.

It's not the 'term' that's the deal-breaker. With a flat cap of $81.5m, the Canucks have no money left.

Expansion draft is the real issue with Markstrom. Canucks seem to want the option to turn to Demko if he’s the real deal. Ideally want more time but that doesn’t make sense for Markstrom. Either he’s your guy and you commit now or he walks.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Surely you're not suggesting that if the Canucks didn't have Eriksson ($6m); Sutter ($4.4m); Baertschi ($3.2m); Roussel ($3m); and Beagle ($3m) on the books, that they'd still walk away from Markstrom and Tanev.

It's not the 'term' that's the deal-breaker. With a flat cap of $81.5m, the Canucks have no money left.

Um at those terms yes, as they should. The reported terms are not great contracts.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Um at those terms yes, as they should. The reported terms are not great contracts.

Agreed. A five year Tanev deal especially has danger signs all over it. The Canucks shouldn’t walk away from that, they should run! A different situation for Pitts who have maybe two or three years of Crosby/Malkin left and then need to tear it down.

 

[mossey3535]

Per Rick Dhaliwal, Holtby has us on his list. Not a bad backup for Demko and consolation prize for Markstrom. Still hope we sign Marky but it doesn't seem close at all.

Well, it's a gamble because Holtby's play has fallen off severely in the last 1.5-ish years. He could regain his form and be a Vezina-level goalie again. Which would lead to more goalie controversy hahahaa.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Surely you're not suggesting that if the Canucks didn't have Eriksson ($6m); Sutter ($4.4m); Baertschi ($3.2m); Roussel ($3m); and Beagle ($3m) on the books, that they'd still walk away from Markstrom and Tanev.

It's not the 'term' that's the deal-breaker. With a flat cap of $81.5m, the Canucks have no money left.

You're right -- he isn't. Any team that for some reason didn't have their five worst contracts on the books and hadn't allocated that cap space in the meantime would be in a pretty good position to resign any player they wanted. The reality is that all teams have constrains that largely compel them not to give out contracts that are at the upper end of market value. Most teams, including ones without a history of overpaying mediocre forwards, wouldn't sign Markstrom at 6-7M or Tanev for 5 years.

 

[mossey3535]

I've said we should move on from Marky because I believe in Demko and DiPietro.

Yes, the term for Tanev is too much. But who replaces him? If it's actually one of our prospects (who aren't looking that great tbh), then this is basically a retool/rebuild which I have also been advocating for.

From that perspective, it makes no sense to re-sign Toffoli. He didn't have a big impact in the playoffs IMO, and he's just another contract that's going to hamper them getting QH/EP signed. Even if they sign bridges, you still have to deal with them after the bridge of 2-3 seasons. Then if you move on from Demko/Marky this team might struggle mightily. Toffoli is a luxury who doesn't fit the timeline IMO. Might as well go all in, save money and try to pinch bargain players cast off because of the flat cap.

Finally, to re-sign Toffoli after all this looks like a f***ing disaster. He doesn't shore up the team's area of weakness, while we make our weaknesses weaker without Tanev and dilute one of our areas of strength.

 

[Cancuks]

Toffoli is a better option than another season of Virtanen or Ferland in the top 6. It's been years since the team has had two scoring lines. Tanev can be replaced for a season by a cheaper UFA or pending UFA via trade. Ideally a young player will step it up this season and be a regular by next.

 

[F A N]

I've said we should move on from Marky because I believe in Demko and DiPietro.

Yes, the term for Tanev is too much. But who replaces him? If it's actually one of our prospects (who aren't looking that great tbh), then this is basically a retool/rebuild which I have also been advocating for.

From that perspective, it makes no sense to re-sign Toffoli. He didn't have a big impact in the playoffs IMO, and he's just another contract that's going to hamper them getting QH/EP signed. Even if they sign bridges, you still have to deal with them after the bridge of 2-3 seasons. Then if you move on from Demko/Marky this team might struggle mightily. Toffoli is a luxury who doesn't fit the timeline IMO. Might as well go all in, save money and try to pinch bargain players cast off because of the flat cap.

Finally, to re-sign Toffoli after all this looks like a f***ing disaster. He doesn't shore up the team's area of weakness, while we make our weaknesses weaker without Tanev and dilute one of our areas of strength.

I actually don't think there will be that big of a drop off without Tanev. Due to the way the Canucks play and win games, I thought Tanev was great alongside Hughes, but if you look at the actual stats, Tanev didn't have a good year defensively. He's not the upper end first pairing shut down D he once was.

Like most signings, the merits of signing Toffoli depends on the AAV and term. I think it's a bit unfair to point to his playoff performance given that he was clearly injured. Players who suffered high ankle sprains tend to be out at least 4-6 weeks. I also disagree that re-signing Toffoli doesn't shore up the team's area of weakness. Without Toffoli, the Canucks depth chart on the right would be Boeser and then Virtanen. I don't think we can call right wing an area of strength.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

The writing appears to be on the wall.....Markstrom and the Canucks are too far apart....all you can hope for is that he doesn't sign with another team in the West, like Edmonton, Calgary or Colorado.

And if the Pens are offering Tanev a five year deal as rumored, then the message from the Canucks will be 'don't let the screen door slam on your way out the door'. Appears to me that Tofoli might their only UFA who gets re-signed.

It's regrettable, but the price you pay for too many bad contracts on the books and awful UFA signings.

Yeah, Markstrom would be a fool to sign for less in Vancouver. He holds all of the cards after the year he had. There are so many teams that need a top goalie like him. He will have many suitors so why settle? Canucks cannot afford him at fair market value and with Demko in the wings and other potential backups with tons of experience that should come fairly cheap it is almost a no brainer. Add in Seattle expansion draft and I don't see how it gets done in Vancouver. Some team will offer him 7 million with more term and NMC that Canucks cannot match. No need to go to Detroit either. Colorado, Calgary, Carolina etc. off the top of my head would all love him as he would be big upgrade.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

duplicate

 

[mathonwy]

I actually don't think there will be that big of a drop off without Tanev. Due to the way the Canucks play and win games, I thought Tanev was great alongside Hughes, but if you look at the actual stats, Tanev didn't have a good year defensively. He's not the upper end first pairing shut down D he once was.

Like most signings, the merits of signing Toffoli depends on the AAV and term. I think it's a bit unfair to point to his playoff performance given that he was clearly injured. Players who suffered high ankle sprains tend to be out at least 4-6 weeks. I also disagree that re-signing Toffoli doesn't shore up the team's area of weakness. Without Toffoli, the Canucks depth chart on the right would be Boeser and then Virtanen. I don't think we can call right wing an area of strength.

Have you seen how much our PK relies on Chris Tanev?

How you seen how much defensive quarterbacking Chris Tanev does when the team gets buried in possession because our forwards are light and shit defensively?

Chris is more often than not the d-man that is able to find and clear the rebound.

Chris is the most defensively aware d-man on our roster. On a game-to-game basis, nobody else comes close. Alex is just as good... but Alex can also be very very bad and nobody has ever seen a bad Chris Tanev.

In all his years, Chris has never been bad and that's very very impressive.

You can look at the stats all you want but, IMO, they don't even come close to describing the kind of impact that Chris has on helping this team tread water while the opponent is hammering us like a nail.

It's the Chris and Jacob steel curtain defense that gives EP40 and QH43 the time they need to be able to score and/or assist on the winning goal.

 

[F A N]

Have you seen how much our PK relies on Chris Tanev?

How you seen how much defensive quarterbacking Chris Tanev does when the team gets buried in possession because our forwards are light and shit defensively?

Chris is more often than not the d-man that is able to find and clear the rebound.

Chris is the most defensively aware d-man on our roster. On a game-to-game basis, nobody else comes close. Alex is just as good... but Alex can also be very very bad and nobody has ever seen a bad Chris Tanev.

In all his years, Chris has never been bad and that's very very impressive.

You can look at the stats all you want but, IMO, they don't even come close to describing the kind of impact that Chris has on helping this team tread water while the opponent is hammering us like a nail.

It's the Chris and Jacob steel curtain defense that gives EP40 and QH43 the time they need to be able to score and/or assist on the winning goal.

I agree that Tanev is rarely ever bad but he isn't the same player he was when many of us thought of him as one of the best shutdown first pairing Dman in the league. All of the advanced stats I have seen show that he has declined defensively.

I also think Stecher is underutilized in the PK department and is capable of replacing Tanev's minutes on the PK (if Green would allow it).

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It’s sad it’s come to this. But we’ve known the day was coming for years that Tanev and Edler would eventually be gone. The issue really is that after all those years the only D we have acquired to replace them in the top 4 is Hughes.
Signing Tanev definitely makes the team better for the next year or two but after that the contract is likely a problem. We should probably just bite the bullet now and move on. Maybe try to acquire a young guy with some upside as part of a package for Virtanen? And pray that one of the prospects takes a big step next year. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like we have a defensive stalwart in the system as they look to be more offensive type players. Juolevi was likely drafted to be a replacement for one of Tanev or Edler but from all reports his defensive play is still suspect. Hopefully he can take another step or maybe Tryamkin could help depending on how much he’s improved defensively. Next year could be a rough year for our goalies if Tanev walks and he’s not replaced.

 

[VanJack]

I guess the question you have to ask about Markstrom: "Will he be the starting goaltender when and if the Canucks are a legitimate contender for the Stanley Cup?"

Clearly the answer to that question is probably 'no'. And if he wants NTC protection, then that means exposing Demko in the expansion draft where he'd be claimed in a heartbeat.

So unless Marky is willing to take a huge home-town discount (and why would he ever do this?) then he's likely gone.

Sure the Canucks could take a step backwards between the pipes over the short-term. But if they could ever fix their blueline, then maybe their goalie doesn't have to be 'all world' night after night, and they can still win without him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I guess the question you have to ask about Markstrom: "Will he be the starting goaltender when and if the Canucks are a legitimate contender for the Stanley Cup?"

Clearly the answer to that question is probably 'no'. And if he wants NTC protection, then that means exposing Demko in the expansion draft where he'd be claimed in a heartbeat.

So unless Marky is willing to take a huge home-town discount (and why would he ever do this?) then he's likely gone.

Sure the Canucks could take a step backwards between the pipes over the short-term. But if they could ever fix their blueline, then maybe their goalie doesn't have to be 'all world' night after night, and they can still win without him.

i'm really torn about this marky and demko thing, i mean it's not like i have any power over it but i just don't know which way i want it to play out.

but there is a big part of me that agrees with this, though it makes me mad. in a sane world, the window should be right ffffing now, with petey and hughes on ELCs. but as someone said on 1040 the other day, maybe the canucks are just going to have to swallow this enormous opportunity cost and build for two years in the future, when sutter, roussel, beagle, loui, baertschi, and the luongo recapture are all off the books.

(of course, we'd still be holding myers, possibly ferland, and i really hope not but very possibly toffoli entering the 2022-'23 season, with boeser coming off his bridge, but one hopes all other things can be sorted out by then.)

 

[Fatass]

Time for Benning to fish or cut bait. Sign Marky and trade Demko, or let Marky walk. The longer Benning waits; the worse the return for Demko.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Give Ian Clark the 6 year 6 mil dollar deal. Doesn’t even hurt our cap. But likely means goaltending will never be our weakness.

 

[Canucks1096]

Linden trade tree might end at 22 years if Markstrom sign with another team.

 

[mathonwy]

Give Ian Clark the 6 year 6 mil dollar deal. Doesn’t even hurt our cap. But likely means goaltending will never be our weakness.

It's true.

Ian Clark is the 'tender whisperer.

 

[Fatass]

Give Ian Clark the 6 year 6 mil dollar deal. Doesn’t even hurt our cap. But likely means goaltending will never be our weakness.

This is exactly what w3 should do. But there is always the Benning factor.

 

[Zombotron]

Predicting destinations for Holtby, Crawford, Fleury and 6 other goalies

 

[xtra]

Predicting destinations for Holtby, Crawford, Fleury and 6 other goalies

That’s not funny at all...sigh...