Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 2

[Snippit]

His numbers are good, though, and it seems like he's got room to improve (maybe it's health, shaking off the rust, lack of immediate chemistry with Hall, just the ebbs and flows of the hockey gods, etc.).

But if people are actually worried that Eichel really wants out and he's already got one foot out the door mentally - then, honestly, I'll take this type of production regardless of his mental state. I'll take a guy who is mentally checked out but still putting up a point per game, 60% CF and a positive (albeit not dominant) xGF%. There really isn't anything to complain about in terms of production.

My take on it is that he is his usual self, maybe a nagging injury, and he just hasn't hit a hot streak yet.

I think you’re just looking at the numbers and not his actual on-ice play, which has been honestly quite bad. The number of turnovers, poor decisions or plays that has died on his stick has been alarming. Great that he’s racking up secondary PP assists but through 8 games he looks like maybe 50% of the superstar he was in the year prior.

Is it attributable to injury/pandemic? I really hope so.

 

[EmeraldCitySabre]

Jesus Christ how in the hell did some of you not learn the lesson about pushing stupid narrative horseshit that ends up blowing up right in our goddamned faces like a hand grenade? "vOrTeX oF sAdDnEsS".

I was just making an observation, but are you saying that a certain ex-Sabre was traded because of a message board? We have that much power? I'm going to start pushing a lot more stupid narratives then if that's the case.

 

[Fezzy126]

His numbers are good, though, and it seems like he's got room to improve (maybe it's health, shaking off the rust, lack of immediate chemistry with Hall, just the ebbs and flows of the hockey gods, etc.).

But if people are actually worried that Eichel really wants out and he's already got one foot out the door mentally - then, honestly, I'll take this type of production regardless of his mental state. I'll take a guy who is mentally checked out but still putting up a point per game, 60% CF and a positive (albeit not dominant) xGF%. There really isn't anything to complain about in terms of production.

My take on it is that he is his usual self, maybe a nagging injury, and he just hasn't hit a hot streak yet.

There were many games last year where I thought he looked off and then he'd have 2 or 3 points at the end of the game. That's exactly what I thought about him in the last game, and if not for the tip of Hall's stick, Jack would have finished with 2 points instead of 1.

He hasn't completely taken over a game yet as we watched him do so many times last year, but I don't think it has anything to do with his morale/mentality. Once he shakes the rust off I think those dominant performances will come back, but until then I appreciate that he's still a top 20 scorer in the league.

 

[Jim Bob]

Jack Eichel Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Eichel's PPG are almost the same as last season (1.13 PPG this yr vs 1.15 PPG last yr).

His goals are down. But, his assists are up.

Once again, the issues with this team aren't with Eichel and his line.

 

[Fjordy]

Once again, the issues with this team aren't with Eichel and his line.

How many goals has his line scored in ES?

 

[debaser66]

Jack Eichel Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Eichel's PPG are almost the same as last season (1.13 PPG this yr vs 1.15 PPG last yr).

His goals are down. But, his assists are up.

Once again, the issues with this team aren't with Eichel and his line.

His line isn't scoring enough to compensate their bad defense (minus 4 )
Yes his lines scores the most but its the only line that gets outscored
So his line is actually the problem

 

[OkimLom]

Having a full training camp, no preseason injury, and a regular schedule to prepare has a lot to do with that.

okay. That’s fine and probably true. It was just a comment about how Jack was shooting really well since the beginning of the season last year. There’s no narrative attached to it, so not sure why you’re posting like there was one.

 

[Jim Bob]

His line isn't scoring enough to compensate their bad defense (minus 4 )
Yes his lines scores the most but its the only line that gets outscored
So his line is actually the problem

The top two lines are getting outscored 5 on 5.

But, the special teams are a +6 driven by those same top 6 forwards.

And as far as defense goes, Dahlin, Montour, and Miller are a combined -17.

 

[Archie Lee]

His numbers are good, though, and it seems like he's got room to improve (maybe it's health, shaking off the rust, lack of immediate chemistry with Hall, just the ebbs and flows of the hockey gods, etc.).

But if people are actually worried that Eichel really wants out and he's already got one foot out the door mentally - then, honestly, I'll take this type of production regardless of his mental state. I'll take a guy who is mentally checked out but still putting up a point per game, 60% CF and a positive (albeit not dominant) xGF%. There really isn't anything to complain about in terms of production.

My take on it is that he is his usual self, maybe a nagging injury, and he just hasn't hit a hot streak yet.

This is pretty close to how I feel about Eichel. He looks mostly as he has the past couple of years.

- He is an elite offensive player who is always dangerous
- The team would benefit from him being better at knowing when to bail-out, push the puck deep and wait for another opportunity
- His defence is better than it was 3 years ago, but it isn't high-level
- His body-language will continue to drive many boomers and gen-xers crazy
- For a leader/captain, he is more neurotic than I would prefer (see articles from a couple years ago on his pre-game rituals...assuming these are largely unchanged)
- The team relies on him in overtime more than they should; when a game goes to O/T it means it was typically tied down the stretch which means he likely played 3 of the last 5-6 minutes and then starts the overtime and plays another minute, gets a 45 second breather and then is back on the ice again. The mistake we saw him make last night was from fatigue, in my opinion. The Sabres have other star players. A fresh Eichel in the last 2 minutes of over-time would be a deadly force.

 

[Montag DP]

He's in a bit of a slump / funk to start the season, at least with his ES play. Maybe it's a nagging injury, maybe it's just rust from the long layoff, or the unusual way this season started off. Whatever the reason, it's not a cause for concern. All players go through those.

 

[OkimLom]

He's in a bit of a slump / funk to start the season, at least with his ES play. Maybe it's a nagging injury, maybe it's just rust from the long layoff, or the unusual way this season started off. Whatever the reason, it's not a cause for concern. All players go through those.

I'd be a little more concerned if it was an injury. It's not as if the injury will get better the more he plays. I'd rather have him sit, get healthy and rested enough, so he can show up to games with more energy while it's early in the season, than get a 65% effective Eichel, and then lose him some point during the season to shut down an injury that got worse. From my opinion, it honestly looks more like a core injury/issue than anything else, and for a guy who is as explosive and drives his most effective traits through that core, he needs that at full strength.

If our team can't handle losing Eichel for a few games, then this team hasn't improved enough.

 

[Beerz]

Jack was a beast last year..on both ends of the ice more often than not...

So comparatively speaking..yeah he is "off" ..

But just because he gave away the puck that cost us a game doesn't mean he has been a major issue for this team.

Overall we have played well. Overall I think Jack has played well just not up to what he is capable of.

On a side note.. after being invisible for first few games its nice to see Sam Reinhart so early in the season. Kudos to him.

 

[Deevo]

Jack was a beast last year..on both ends of the ice more often than not...

So comparatively speaking..yeah he is "off" ..

But just because he gave away the puck that cost us a game doesn't mean he has been a major issue for this team.

Overall we have played well. Overall I think Jack has played well just not up to what he is capable of.

On a side note.. after being invisible for first few games its nice to see Sam Reinhart so early in the season. Kudos to him.

Sam has looked friggin great the last couple of games.

 

[SabresFan26]

Watching the Bulls, and the Last Dance. I wish Eichel was Jordan at least attitude wise. He single handily willed his way to turn around a losing franchise. Jack is immensely talented but being elite is a choice. He has to commit to making the decision to be elite and to lead others. I’m not convinced he has the “it”. Lot of growing up to do.

Bad results come from poor behavior which is inspired by not great culture which is built by its leaders.

flip that script and

Leaders build culture, culture drives behavior and behavior produces results.

Thus why the Bills have success now and the Sabres are close to the longest playoff drought in league history.

 

[The Red Helmet]

Watching the Bulls, and the Last Dance. I wish Eichel was Jordan at least attitude wise. He single handily willed his way to turn around a losing franchise. Jack is immensely talented but being elite is a choice. He has to commit to making the decision to be elite and to lead others. I’m not convinced he has the “it”. Lot of growing up to do.

Bad results come from poor behavior which is inspired by not great culture which is built by its leaders.

flip that script and

Leaders build culture, culture drives behavior and behavior produces results.

Thus why the Bills have success now and the Sabres are close to the longest playoff drought in league history.

Yes Jordan is/was the highest level competitor there ever was, but that was the 1990's and one player can affect a team in basketball more than any other sport, especially more than hockey. Everyone thought ROR wasn't a leader then he got traded and won the Cup and every other piece of hardward to go along with it.

 

[BananaSquad]

Jack over PPG and not playing his best hockey, that’s how elite he’s become.

 

[EmeraldCitySabre]

Jack over PPG and not playing his best hockey, that’s how elite he’s become.

Yep, that's a great problem to have. He showed glimpses last year of how elite he can be, I would love to see him return to that form so we can end this playoff drought.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

6 games later he still doesn't look much better if you ask me

Meh, he doesn’t look like peak Eichel from last season but he looks way better than those first couple of games.

He still doesn’t have that elite burst/speed back, his conditioning is definitely still a work in progress (which IMO is leading to some of the lazy plays we’ve seen) and he’s still trying to find his scoring touch.

He’s been playing kind of uneven. He has good moments and bad. But I think most of it can be explained by 300+ days without any real hockey and now being thrown directly into the fire facing the top competition in the world 5x a week with no preseason or training camp to prepare.

 

[tsujimoto74]

This is pretty close to how I feel about Eichel. He looks mostly as he has the past couple of years.

- He is an elite offensive player who is always dangerous
- The team would benefit from him being better at knowing when to bail-out, push the puck deep and wait for another opportunity
- His defence is better than it was 3 years ago, but it isn't high-level
- His body-language will continue to drive many boomers and gen-xers crazy
- For a leader/captain, he is more neurotic than I would prefer (see articles from a couple years ago on his pre-game rituals...assuming these are largely unchanged)
- The team relies on him in overtime more than they should; when a game goes to O/T it means it was typically tied down the stretch which means he likely played 3 of the last 5-6 minutes and then starts the overtime and plays another minute, gets a 45 second breather and then is back on the ice again. The mistake we saw him make last night was from fatigue, in my opinion. The Sabres have other star players. A fresh Eichel in the last 2 minutes of over-time would be a deadly force.

Yeah, Kreuger rides him hard in the last few minutes of any close game + a lot in OT. It worked OK last year because it was a normal year. With the crazy long off-season and the injury, I don't think Eichel's conditioning is at the level where he can play that much and be utterly dominant player he's capable of being.

 

[BananaSquad]

Yep, that's a great problem to have. He showed glimpses last year of how elite he can be, I would love to see him return to that form so we can end this playoff drought.

Jack will figure it out, was hurt and hadn’t played in so long.

 

[TehDoak]

I think eichel was more concerned with getting hall the puck than scoring himself. They need be separated. They don’t work well together.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, Kreuger rides him hard in the last few minutes of any close game + a lot in OT. It worked OK last year because it was a normal year. With the crazy long off-season and the injury, I don't think Eichel's conditioning is at the level where he can play that much and be utterly dominant player he's capable of being.

I wonder if the issue is more mental than physical.

Last year Jack had linemates that either already knew how to play with him (Sam) or were learning to adapt to him (Olofsson). It led to him imposing himself on games since he knew he was the driving force and his new linemate had to adapt to him to join the ride. Jack wasn’t worried about adapting his game for Olofsson.

This year he came into the season with Hall as a new linemate. Someone Jack clearly felt the need to adapt his game for. As @TehDoak pointed out, he‘s been trying too hard to get Hall involved. More so than trying to individually impose himself on the games like he did last season.

It will be interesting to see if we get last season’s Jack in today’s game now that Hall is off his line.

 

[Buffaloed]

Eichel isn't going to the boards with any authority. He was like a bull along the boards last season. Now he's just poking away with his stick. He's a big strong player that's playing Alex Nylander hockey. I think that shoulder is bothering him a lot more than they're letting on.

 

[flashsabre]

He doesn’t look himself. But give him credit he took a puck to the mouth, returned and won the game today.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

He doesn’t look himself. But give him credit he took a puck to the mouth, returned and won the game today.

I don't think there's anything wrong with his effort. We'll see how things progress.