Jack Eichel or Austin Matthews 17/18

[LeafFever]

You keep leaving out the fact that Eichel was hurt last year. For someone who keeps plugging facts, you keep forgetting important ones.

Weird how a guy with Leaf in his name is doing this for someone not named Auston Matthews.

Ok, he was not hurt in his rookie year and he still did not hit 60 points. Matthews had 69 in his rookie year. Stop with the excuses.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Did someone really use giveaways/takeaways and blocked shots to support their argument?

I assume that means you accept everything else I argued, so it seems as though Matthews is the better offensive talent

 

[LeafFever]

Did someone really use giveaways/takeaways and blocked shots to support their argument?

He used them in a group of reasons why Matthews is better. Why do you take issue with that?

Matthews is clearly the better overall player. All the stats tell us that.

But by all means, let's only use PPG last year as the way to judge.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He used them in a group of reasons why Matthews is better. Why do you take issue with that?

Matthews is clearly the better overall player. All the stats tell us that.

But by all means, let's only use PPG last year as the way to judge.

Yeah I realize there are flaws with those stats and I'd never use them as the sole basis for my opinion, but he argued Matthews isn't a more complete player. I think having more blocks and more takeaways is a part of being complete, but even if not it doesn't take away from the rest of what I said. If you look at the bigger picture, Matthews is better in nearly every facet of the game

 

[LeafFever]

Yeah I realize there are flaws with those stats and I'd never use them as the sole basis for my opinion, but he argued Matthews isn't a more complete player. I think having more blocks and more takeaways is a part of being complete, but even if not it doesn't take away from the rest of what I said. If you look at the bigger picture, Matthews is better in nearly every facet of the game

Yup, Those stats make perfect sense given the argument.

 

[LeafFever]

If Leaf fans stated a player who was inferior in every statistic was better than another, we'd sure be laughed at as "Homers".

Eichel is better...Ok, where's the stats to prove this?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If Leaf fans stated a player who was inferior in every statistic was better than another, we'd sure be laughed at as "Homers".

Eichel is better...Ok, where's the stats to prove this?

Points per game (but only in this cherrypicked 60 game sample and as long as you don't also cherrypick Matthews' 60 best games)

 

[LeafFever]

Points per game (but only in this cherrypicked 60 game sample and as long as you don't also cherrypick Matthews' 60 best games)

They're clinging to that one and only stat. And everyone knows PPG typically goes down if you play a quarter more games of the season.

But it must be the media "Overhyping" a Toronto guy, Must be it. I think the media makes up stats too.

 

[Quiet Jack]

Points per game (but only in this cherrypicked 60 game sample and as long as you don't also cherrypick Matthews' 60 best games)

The cherry picked 60 game sample is Eichel's 2nd season. It's not like it's some random 10 game stretch in December.

Matthews clearly had the better rookie season. Who knows how his 2nd season will compare to Eichel's.

Anyway, they are both incredible talents.

Anyone who says one is clearly superior to the other is just being obnoxious.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

They're clinging to that one and only stat. And everyone knows PPG typically goes down if you play a quarter more games of the season.

But it must be the media "Overhyping" a Toronto guy, Must be it. I think the media makes up stats too.

Take out the 13 games in October-November where he only put up 3 assists and Matthews' season is 66 points and 40 goals in 69 games. If you want to count anything, then you have to include all available data including Eichel's rookie year, even if it doesn't suit your agenda

 

[Sniper99]

Wait, Leafs fans actually think Matthews was better than Eichel last season? Lol

We know for sure that Matthews was better than Eichel last year. His stats prove it.

 

[X66]

Look at Matthews points per game after the same amount of games eichel played last season, it's very similar and only different by a few points when both are pro rated to 82 games.

There is no telling how Eichels season would have ended.

Matthews had the more impressive rookie season and overall season last year, and yes health is a factor.

It's also hilarious seeing some familiar posters that ragged on Nylanders pp points to even strength ratio as a negative point but they don't bring it up here for eichel.

Good day, as it stands today Matthews is a more valuable player and commodity.

 

[Quiet Jack]

Look at Matthews points per game after the same amount of games eichel played last season, it's very similar and only different by a few points when both are pro rated to 82 games.

There is no telling how Eichels season would have ended.

Matthews had the more impressive rookie season and overall season last year, and yes health is a factor.

It's also hilarious seeing some familiar posters that ragged on Nylanders pp points to even strength ratio as a negative point but they don't bring it up here for eichel.

Good day, as it stands today Matthews is a more valuable player and commodity.

Quick question, and I'm not here to argue, but if health is a factor can we please not ever hear about Marner having mono again?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This is a very logical answer. Buffalo needs some good forwards and Eichel needs that winger to compliment his game. Everybobys putting there money on somebody steps up and becomes that guy. As of now, that guy doesn't exist and Eichel's left to try and do everything by himself. The way I see it, Eichel is our Getzlaf and we need our Perry.

Good on you sabres fan for being logical and reasoanable. a lot of your fan base just go "lol wrong" or something similar with no actual facts.

You didn't do that


that's good to see

 

[Atomos2]

This is a very logical answer. Buffalo needs some good forwards and Eichel needs that winger to compliment his game. Everybobys putting there money on somebody steps up and becomes that guy. As of now, that guy doesn't exist and Eichel's left to try and do everything by himself. The way I see it, Eichel is our Getzlaf and we need our Perry.

Middlestat definitely looks like an interesting piece. Too early to be close to Perry, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Snippit]

Take out the 13 games in October-November where he only put up 3 assists and Matthews' season is 66 points and 40 goals in 69 games. If you want to count anything, then you have to include all available data including Eichel's rookie year, even if it doesn't suit your agenda

Who is cherry picking Eichel's 60 best games? You do realize that would be taking out all the games in which Eichel had no points and only counting the 60 in which he scored the most in...

His sample is Eichel's entire sophomore season. Your Matthews example doesn't apply cause he's not arbitrarily subtracting stretches where Eichel didn't score.

 

[X66]

Who is cherry picking Eichel's 60 best games? You do realize that would be taking out all the games in which Eichel had no points and only counting the 60 in which he scored the most in...

His sample is Eichel's entire sophomore season. Your Matthews example doesn't apply cause he's not arbitrarily subtracting stretches where Eichel didn't score.

Compare Eichels 61 games to Matthews first 61 games, they weren't far off, and one was a rookie.

Is anyone going to rag on Eichel being a PP specialist and wanting to see more from him at even strength like they do for Nylander? I would like to know.

 

[Akrapovince]

In my opinion , limited games when it comes to points per games works both ways.

It's true it's easier to maintain a point per game with restricted sample size,

but whose to say the next 40 or so games Eichel wouldn't have turned it up?

I believe McDavid outpaced himself in the second half of the season or 45ish-50 game mark.

I remember him being from about 1.11 to 1.21

Obviously player tendencies are to regress as games go on,

but I wouldn't say it's that black and white with elite players coming back from injury.

 

[Snippit]

Look at Matthews points per game after the same amount of games eichel played last season, it's very similar and only different by a few points when both are pro rated to 82 games.

There is no telling how Eichels season would have ended.

Matthews had the more impressive rookie season and overall season last year, and yes health is a factor.

It's also hilarious seeing some familiar posters that ragged on Nylanders pp points to even strength ratio as a negative point but they don't bring it up here for eichel.

Good day, as it stands today Matthews is a more valuable player and commodity.

He would have needed 13 points over the last 21 games to surpass Matthews, or a p/gp of 0.63. In a much larger sample of 61 games, he put up 0.93 p/gp.

I mean sure it's possible his p/gp falls off but it would be unlikely. If anything you would expect the opposite to occur - his production increasing as he recovers from the high ankle sprain.

 

[Akrapovince]

He would have needed 13 points over the last 21 games to surpass Matthews, or a p/gp of 0.63. In a much larger sample of 61 games, he put up 0.93 p/gp.

I mean sure it's possible his p/gp falls off but it would be unlikely. If anything you would expect the opposite to occur - his production increasing as he recovers from the high ankle sprain.

Bang on with what I said above, except I wasn't smart enough to do the math.

 

[Snippit]

Compare Eichels 61 games to Matthews first 61 games, they weren't far off, and one was a rookie.

Is anyone going to rag on Eichel being a PP specialist and wanting to see more from him at even strength like they do for Nylander? I would like to know.

So because Matthews' p/gp fell off, Eichel's probably would have too?

This is a weak argument.

Eichel's one of the best powerplay players in the league, if you ask me. Buffalo sucked at even strength due to their head coach and players like Okposo and ROR saw their ES point totals fall drastically compared to their previous coaches.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Compare Eichels 61 games to Matthews first 61 games, they weren't far off, and one was a rookie.

Is anyone going to rag on Eichel being a PP specialist and wanting to see more from him at even strength like they do for Nylander? I would like to know.

Only 26 hits in 60 games and 35 blocks, and a negative giveaway/takeaway ratio? Sounds like a soft perimeter PP specialist to me

Weird how these criticisms only apply to a specific group of players and not everyone..

 

[Akrapovince]

Only 26 hits in 60 games and 35 blocks, and a negative giveaway/takeaway ratio? Sounds like a soft perimeter PP specialist to me

Weird how these criticisms only apply to a specific group of players and not everyone..

Can you show me the site you used for all these stats in one place,

or did you have to google all of it individually to find it?

 

[X66]

So because Matthews' p/gp fell off, Eichel's probably would have too?

This is a weak argument.

I don't think anyone suggested that.

The point is, that everyone is raving about Eichel's stats after those 61 games, yet Matthews stats were very similar in that same sample size.

Who knows how Eichel's season would have ended.

Matthews had the more impressive year.

 

[Snippit]

Only 26 hits in 60 games and 35 blocks, and a negative giveaway/takeaway ratio? Sounds like a soft perimeter PP specialist to me

Weird how these criticisms only apply to a specific group of players and not everyone..

Unless the people you're arguing with have called Nylander a soft perimeter PP specialist, I don't understand why this is being brought up. Not everyone arguing against a Leafs player has uniform thoughts and opinions.

Note: I haven't.

You guys always do this for some reason and I always find it amusing.