Post-Game Talk: Isles 6, Pens 3

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It aggravates me to hear stuff like that from the coaching staff, not because it isn't true, but because they then go out and do nothing about it.

It's like the Bobby Farnham thing all over again. Praise for his play and how much of an impact he was, then he's sent down a couple of days later so that useless Adams and Sill can dress in his place.

I'd rather the coaching staff actually *do* something about the passengers rather than just comment on it after a loss, then go back to the same old the next game.

Until then, anything that comes out of the coaching staff's collective mouths about passengers and accountability and whatnot is nothing but hot air so long as guys like Adams, Sill, and Scuderi dress.

Adams looks like Jagr circa '96 compared to Farnham on the boards. Florida dummied him in that back to back series a little while back when they realized he wanted them to have the puck. So they basically let him get it, then took it from him and he was essentially neutralized.

I love Farnham, but he is what he is.

Assuming no moves are made, I'd rather have Rust on that fourth line. I'd be perfectly happy with a Rust, Goc and Downie fourth line. That's a legit, NHL caliber fourth line that can actually work the boards and posses the puck.

Throw Spaling and Kunitz with Sutter and you have a legit bottom six. The org as a whole has to admit Sill and Adams are a big problem and do something about it. JR keeps talking about fixing that fourth line, and the guys that need "fixed" are those two.

Right now Hornqvist and Comeau are out, so one of those two has to play I guess. However, why was Rust sent down and Sill not put on waivers? That move right there makes the team better.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Big minus to Spaling for stuffing that shot into Halak's pad in the 2nd. Pretty much identical to the Isles 3rd goal. It would have pus us up 2 and completely changed the tone of the game IMO.

 

[billybudd]

Lemieux, Francis and Jagr never had a plugger and they were dominant as hell. Kovy, Straka, Lang, same deal. None of those 6 guys were straight line players.

Lemieux had all of his best seasons with one of Errey, Tocchet or Sandstrom on his line. He performed worst with a guy like Quinn. Everything to the outside, nothing to the middle, unless 66 took it there himself, which didn't require Quinn to be on the ice at all.

Lemieux-Francis-Jagr was productive, but was much less productive than Lemieux-Sandstrom-Naslund/Murray/Roche (all of those the last three were crap that year, yet 66 had 40 more points than he would with Francis and Jagr), Lemieux-Errey-Brown and, especially, Lemieux-Tocchet-Stevens, despite having better individual components.

Straka, despite being European, was a textbook, straight-line top-6 plugger. When he tried to be more than that with Florida, he flatlined and was waived.


So far Bennett's got 1 goal and no assists with Malkin in 4 games and Geno's producing less at even strength than he was in the same span with Kunitz and, I think, Ebbett. I see that as causal, not coincidence. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Fordy]

Adams looks like Jagr circa '96 compared to Farnham on the boards. Florida dummied him in that back to back series a little while back when they realized he wanted them to have the puck. So they basically let him get it, then took it from him and he was essentially neutralized.

I love Farnham, but he is what he is.

Assuming no moves are made, I'd rather have Rust on that fourth line. I'd be perfectly happy with a Rust, Goc and Downie fourth line. That's a legit, NHL caliber fourth line that can actually work the boards and posses the puck.

Throw Spaling and Kunitz with Sutter and you have a legit bottom six. The org as a whole has to admit Sill and Adams are a big problem and do something about it. JR keeps talking about fixing that fourth line, and the guys that need "fixed" are those two.

Right now Hornqvist and Comeau are out, so one of those two has to play I guess. However, why was Rust sent down and Sill not put on waivers? That move right there makes the team better.

completely disagree, i thought farnham was excellent on the boards in pretty much every game? definitely better than adams. i don't specifically remember the games you're talking about but i really don't remember thinking this

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Maybe he saw what got Farnham sent down and took notes of what not to do.

Sill has never been a player that looks to fight. He is the type of player that will fight on occasion when he's challenged. Rarely does he look to fight. I only seen him stepping for his teammate once in the big league. When Tropp laid a hit on Niskanen along the boards.

Farnham has the mentality that you want in this team. Bobby does lack the size and fighting ability to succeed in the role he plays. A player of his size can only take so much abuse. Playing as hard as he does on the forecheck is going to make him wind up on IR. Jared Boll, Matt Martin, and Adam McQuaid are players that can drive the opposition crazy. Farnham can't and shouldn't be expected to contain them by dropping the gloves when he's a mediocre middleweight. Those players mentioned above are capable of putting him to sleep.

Pierre-Luc Leblond needs to be given a chance. And, he shouldn't be given a short leash. The guy can be a loose cannon at times. He had no problem fighting a 6'7" Brett Ponich during the preseason. He has shown improvement in his play over the past few seasons. I know that organization aren't necessarily in favor of his role, but he should be given a chance. What's the worst that could happen?

This organization wants to be able to roll with four lines. How can that be possible when you have Craig Adams, Marcel Goc, and Zach Sill on the starting line-up? The fourth-line isn't going to be effective unless a deal or two are made. Enough with these undersized subpar forwards that play with no energy whatsoever. How can a line be expected to keep possession of the puck in the offensive zone when almost every forward on the bottom six are soft along the boards?

 

[Gurglesons]

Just finished watching the game.

We basically played the game until the last 12 minutes. The third goal killed us. Fleury should've controlled that rebound.

Despres looked terrible all game. Consistently forcing plays that weren't there.

Malkin's line was easily the best. Complete defensive effort which makes you once again question why he isn't on the PK.

Why Adams and Sill are still playing in the NHL is beyond me.

Whatevs. **** the Isles.

 

[IcedCapp]

Lemieux had all of his best seasons with one of Errey, Tocchet or Sandstrom on his line. He performed worst with a guy like Quinn. Everything to the outside, nothing to the middle, unless 66 took it there himself, which didn't require Quinn to be on the ice at all.

Lemieux-Francis-Jagr was productive, but was much less productive than Lemieux-Sandstrom-Naslund/Murray/Roche (all of those the last three were crap that year, yet 66 had 40 more points than he would with Francis and Jagr), Lemieux-Errey-Brown and, especially, Lemieux-Tocchet-Stevens, despite having better individual components.

Straka, despite being European, was a textbook, straight-line top-6 plugger. When he tried to be more than that with Florida, he flatlined and was waived.


So far Bennett's got 1 goal and no assists with Malkin in 4 games and Geno's producing less at even strength than he was in the same span with Kunitz and, I think, Ebbett. I see that as causal, not coincidence. We'll see, I guess.

You seem to have a very real dislike for certain players and you never let go of it once it's there.

I don't know how you can look at Bennett - Malkin over the past stretch and then they aren't generating more 5-on-5 chances. Great, Ebbett-Malkin-Rust had a fluky game.

let's judge the process, not results.

 

[Gurglesons]

This organization wants to be able to roll with four lines. How can that be possible when you have Craig Adams, Marcel Goc, and Zach Sill in the starting line-up? The fourth-line isn't going to be effective unless a deal or two are made. Enough with these undersized subpar forwards that play with no energy whatsoever. How can a line be expected to keep possession of the puck in the offensive zone when almost every forward on the bottom six are soft along the boards?

First off, love that someone with Sill in their username is moving for him to get out.

Goc looks great. The real issue is that he is weighed down with Sill and Adams. When Comeau and Horny are back, Adams should be a healthy scratch.

 

[DegenX]

 

[billybudd]

I agree, though most posters probably wouldn't. There's a lot of overlap in how BB and Geno like to carry the play, and they use up each other's ice a lot. Spaling goes to the slot and the net, and I think that's actually as much of the reason Geno is getting some space as BB being on his line, if not more. Spaling simply cannot finish effectively, and he's not fast. So he's nowhere near ideal to help Geno. But when he goes to the net, you have to cover him, it creates occasional confusion when two guys cover him, etc, and that's all Geno really needs to generate a quality chance.

BB needs to be the puck carrier on his line, he's a waste with Geno because he doesn't drive the net regularly. He really does fit best with Sutter, who, for all his faults, drives the net very reliably and gets free for shots in the slot. That line worked so well because Sutter and Downie both hung around the dirty areas and let BB beat guys along the boards and feed them pucks in high percentage areas, or just threw the puck on net.

BB is much better off with those guys, and Geno will work better with PH, Downie, Comeau or a trade.

Yeah, I'm with you. Endorse 100% of this post.

 

[billybudd]

You seem to have a very real dislike for certain players and you never let go of it once it's there.

I don't know how you can look at Bennett - Malkin over the past stretch and then they aren't generating more 5-on-5 chances. Great, Ebbett-Malkin-Rust had a fluky game.

let's judge the process, not results.

The process is what I don't like. When there are 30 successful passes on one shift in the offensive zone and the best (and only) chance you get out of that is a weak wrist shot from Rob Scuderi at the blue line 45 seconds after you've entered the zone, something is wrong with your procedure.

 

[Fordy]

i'm not sure i can trust the opinions of anyone that thinks malkin and bennett haven't had chemistry and worked well together in the last 4 games. their opinions also seem to be mostly based on stat watching so yeah

the reason malkin and bennett ARE looking good together is because they think similarly and want to do similar things. they follow each other around the ice and play tight together the same way geno did with neal.

did you guys not see the shift against the wild with about half a dozen give and go passes? you're trying to tell me these two don't have chemistry and aren't feeding off of one another because bennett doesn't have a point in every game? geez. i mean you haven't even seen what dimension comeau is going to add, someone that will shoot more and actually shoot well, and you're writing off a combination that has shown promise every single time it's come together (twice btw)

 

[Fordy]

The process is what I don't like. When there are 30 successful passes on one shift in the offensive zone and the best (and only) chance you get out of that is a weak wrist shot from Rob Scuderi at the blue line 45 seconds after you've entered the zone, something is wrong with your procedure.

no, that means something is wrong with the ending. the procedure gave you 45 seconds of zone time and 30 passes. the procedure is fine. add a finisher and make the best player in the world shoot more to change the outcome

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Lemieux had all of his best seasons with one of Errey, Tocchet or Sandstrom on his line. He performed worst with a guy like Quinn. Everything to the outside, nothing to the middle, unless 66 took it there himself, which didn't require Quinn to be on the ice at all.

Lemieux-Francis-Jagr was productive, but was much less productive than Lemieux-Sandstrom-Naslund/Murray/Roche (all of those the last three were crap that year, yet 66 had 40 more points than he would with Francis and Jagr), Lemieux-Errey-Brown and, especially, Lemieux-Tocchet-Stevens, despite having better individual components.

Straka, despite being European, was a textbook, straight-line top-6 plugger. When he tried to be more than that with Florida, he flatlined and was waived.

So far Bennett's got 1 goal and no assists with Malkin in 4 games and Geno's producing less at even strength than he was in the same span with Kunitz and, I think, Ebbett. I see that as causal, not coincidence. We'll see, I guess.

In 95-96, LFJ all put up over 100 points and Jagr and Lemieux both potted 60 goals. This was when the league was starting to mimic the Devils and you could see the dead puck era sadly begin, with many teams sitting back on their heels, especially the Panthers.

Giroux and Voracek are lighting things up and Giroux is a lot like BB in the way he plays. He isn't a guy with blinding speed or one who dips his shoulder and takes it to the net.

I think we all need to relax. BB hasn't even played a dozen games in his career in the top six yet. He's playing with one of the two best pivots in the world and is giving him great looks at the net already. Their line is creating problems almost every shift, that's all I look for.

I don't worry about if one guy is a shooter, and one is a puck retriever, and one a passer and all of this nonsense. On one shift, Malkin can be the puck retriever, or the setup man, or the trigger. BB as well.

That's what makes them hard to defend, because both are as likely to get the puck, hold it, and make a play, as they are to find a gap and get off a shot, especially Malkin. However, BB shot is no joke either, and he's a smart player that will get better and better in this role when he has more than say, a dozen games there.

 

[IcedCapp]

if there's a problem with Malkin and Bennett, it's Spaling, not Malkin or Bennett. And that's not because Spaling is BAD (he's been quite good in areas), but simply because he lacks the finish to take advantage of what those two are providing.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

completely disagree, i thought farnham was excellent on the boards in pretty much every game? definitely better than adams. i don't specifically remember the games you're talking about but i really don't remember thinking this

Farnham blows on the boards and reads them poorly. I'm more than certain that's why he was sent down. That and the fact Adams is Captain Amazing, apparently.

People should be asking why Rust was sent down, not Farnham.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

if there's a problem with Malkin and Bennett, it's Spaling, not Malkin or Bennett. And that's not because Spaling is BAD (he's been quite good in areas), but simply because he lacks the finish to take advantage of what those two are providing.

BB has surprised Malkin with a few passes as well. Aside from his shifts with Crosby, he obviously isn't used to a guy like BB feeding him the puck yet. That beautiful feed in the slot in the second was flubbed off Malkin's stick. If not I think it goes in easy.

 

[Gurglesons]

Farnham blows on the boards and reads them poorly. I'm more than certain that's why he was sent down. That and the fact Adams is Captain Amazing, apparently.

People should be asking why Rust was sent down, not Farnham.

He looked better than Adams on the forecheck and when the fourth line was actual allowed to cycle.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wish Perron would've dropped Okposo after that hat trick goal. You know, since Hamonic is allowed to do it to Crosby and Buff is allowed to do it to Downie, why can't we?

 

[billybudd]

i'm not sure i can trust the opinions of anyone that thinks malkin and bennett haven't had chemistry and worked well together in the last 4 games. their opinions also seem to be mostly based on stat watching so yeah

the reason malkin and bennett ARE looking good together is because they think similarly and want to do similar things. they follow each other around the ice and play tight together the same way geno did with neal.

Tangradi>Megna>Dupuis

did you guys not see the shift against the wild with about half a dozen give and go passes? you're trying to tell me these two don't have chemistry and aren't feeding off of one another because bennett doesn't have a point in every game? geez. i mean you haven't even seen what dimension comeau is going to add, someone that will shoot more and actually shoot well, and you're writing off a combination that has shown promise every single time it's come together (twice btw)

Did you notice that there were no looks on the net during that entire sequence? If style points counted for anything, Nikita Filatov would be an all-star, not a washout.

 

[Shockmaster]

In 95-96, LFJ all put up over 100 points and Jagr and Lemieux both potted 60 goals. This was when the league was starting to mimic the Devils and you could see the dead puck era sadly begin, with many teams sitting back on their heels, especially the Panthers.

Giroux and Voracek are lighting things up and Giroux is a lot like BB in the way he plays. He isn't a guy with blinding speed or one who dips his shoulder and takes it to the net.

I think we all need to relax. BB hasn't even played a dozen games in his career in the top six yet. He's playing with one of the two best pivots in the world and is giving him great looks at the net already. Their line is creating problems almost every shift, that's all I look for.

I don't worry about if one guy is a shooter, and one is a puck retriever, and one a passer and all of this nonsense. On one shift, Malkin can be the puck retriever, or the setup man, or the trigger. BB as well.

That's what makes them hard to defend, because both are as likely to get the puck, hold it, and make a play, as they are to find a gap and get off a shot, especially Malkin. However, BB shot is no joke either, and he's a smart player that will get better and better in this role when he has more than say, a dozen games there.

Aside from all that, Hornqvist and Malkin just haven't clicked when they've played together 5-on-5.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure if Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist will work extremely well or be a little too much of the same thing (smaller guys that like to buzz around the crease area). But I'm interested in checking it out.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He looked better than Adams on the forecheck and when the fourth line was actual allowed to cycle.

Sill and Adams have had games they control the boards and don't look atrocious. Most of the time they do. Just like Farnham. He's easily pushed off the puck and his hands are akin to Dupuis with a novocaine rub down before each shift.

Rust is the much better player and should be playing fourth line minutes, but Glass.

Aside from all that, Hornqvist and Malkin just haven't clicked when they've played together 5-on-5.

Last time I brought up the fact I like Hornqvist with Malkin, IC started waving his panties over his head and walked in slow circles mumbling **** about pucks retrievers and how Crosby needs strawberry jam on his Dempsters.

 

[Shockmaster]

I'm not sure if Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist will work extremely well or be a little too much of the same thing (smaller guys that like to buzz around the crease area). But I'm interested in checking it out.

It's worth a shot considering Hornqvist actually does go to the net when he plays with Crosby as opposed to Kunitz who just seems to look complacent when he's on the top line nowadays.

 

[Terrapin]

I'm done complaining about Adams. It's like living in Minnesota and complaining about bad weather. It's never going to go away.

Sill is useless. Out there with a minute left and down by 3 goals. He seemed to actually make a point of avoiding Matt Martin. Does this scrub know his role? Guess not.

I thought I'd never see a more bland, vanilla player than Brandon Sutter. Well, Marcel Goc trumps Sutter in every way (for the worse). Aside from winning some faceoffs, I cannot fathom what he brings to the team, especially as a 4th liner.

Acrobald or whatever the hell his name is was just as I expected. A pint sized waiver scrub that has zero business on this team. Not good enough for the top 6, not big enough for the bottom 6. I realize we strive to be the smallest, softest team in the league, but this guy is taking things to a new level.