Post-Game Talk: Isles 6, Pens 3
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madinsomniac
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the Isles' big advantage is they have a 4th line worth a damn. honestly the team has to get out of the mentality that Sill -Anyone-Adams is a useful line. It isn't and will never be. scrap that crap and get another guy in here so that even with injuries those guys never see the ice
cygnus47
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- Sep 14, 2013
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I disagree. The Isles big advantage is that they are possibly the fastest team in the league and they have a system which takes advantage of that to put constant pressure on every pass, all game. To beat them, you have to get lucky or hope they have an off night, or make great passes all night and be very disciplined.
No, to beat them, you have to possess the puck and make them chase you. The puck moves faster than the player.
As I said earlier, the Spaling-Malkin-Bennett line had corsi numbers over 60%. Whoever they were out there against, even the Tavares line, was defending most of the night. And, even though the line didn't score, they were the ONLY Pens line that wasn't a MINUS at ES.
You don't have to be lucky to beat the Isles or be perfect with all of your passes. You have to make them chase the puck. I'm not a 'end all and be all' guy when it comes to corsi, but, when the playoffs come, absent a goaltending meltdown, the team that beats them will be the team with great corsi numbers on a minimum of two of their lines (at least one being a top two line).
Mr Jiggyfly
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- Jan 29, 2004
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This is what I'm trying to drive home with BB and Malkin. It's about possession of the puck. They don't have to score every night to be effective. If they keep the puck in the attacking zone and have constant pressure, the other team can't score agt them without the puck.
It's simple hockey 101.
Ya, they will have their share of turnovers, but more often that not, these two will generate significant scoring chances together and keep the puck in the other end. That's what you want from any line, really.
Iffyiffiffer
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- May 10, 2010
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The unbeatable Islanders lost and gave up 6 goals tonight and only got 4 because of getting 2 in garbage time.
Preaching to the choir. Now, let's see if Mr 'Analytics' GM and Mr 'Possession Hockey' Coach reach the same conclusion.
I'm just so used to Capuano chasing a Tavares versus Malkin matchup because he figures Tavares will make Malkin play defense most of the night, and that's what usually happens. Last night, Malkin and Beau took the Isles possession game and shoved it right back in their throats. Save one play, where the Pens were in the middle of a line change and then thought it was an icing that wasn't called-- the sequence that led to the clean outlet to Tavares where he danced Despres-- Tavares and Okposo did NOTHING against Malkin and Bennett because they barely ever touched the puck. Worst case scenario for the Pens, in this scenario, is a draw because the Malkin line just can't bury one. You saw it. I saw it. And, Capuano saw it, because all of a sudden, he was doing making sure to avoid that matchup come the third period.
You know, it's not what you see or I see or what someone else here sees. For me, it's what the opposing coach sees. And, how Capuano changed the matchups in the third last night tells you what he saw.
As I keep saying, if the GM and HC are about the brand of hockey that they claim to be, then Beau goes nowhere until he plays himself off that line.
EDIT: Yeah, I love that 'hey, they turned over the puck a bit' too. Corsi percentage near 70%, pretty much the gold standard against the Isles, means you have the puck so much you're going to have times that you turn it over. Bennett is helping to make Malkin better in a way that no other winger on the Pens roster can, and I actually read complaints that they're not getting enough chances for how much they possess the puck.
Montreal didn't play their game, and I'm hardly surprised anyway. Emotional win at home, then travel to Montreal for 24 hours later.
The Habs beating the NYI doesn't mean anything in regards to us beating them. Your point is what, like?
Are we gonna have to rely on another team to knock them out of the playoffs because we can't beat them ourselves?
Puck possesion is wonderful, but it doesn't guarantee anything. When you're afforded scoring chances you have to convert. It's like a team who gets 45 shots on net losing to a team who gets 25 shots on goal. Who cares, you still lost. Just because that particular line had good possession numbers mattered very little in the outcome. Being efficient in converting the opportunities you're presented is what matters most. And in that regard we didn't do enough.Preaching to the choir. Now, let's see if Mr 'Analytics' GM and Mr 'Possession Hockey' Coach reach the same conclusion.
I'm just so used to Capuano chasing a Tavares versus Malkin matchup because he figures Tavares will make Malkin play defense most of the night, and that's what usually happens. Last night, Malkin and Beau took the Isles possession game and shoved it right back in their throats. Save one play, where the Pens were in the middle of a line change and then thought it was an icing that wasn't called-- the sequence that led to the clean outlet to Tavares where he danced Despres-- Tavares and Okposo did NOTHING against Malkin and Bennett because they barely ever touched the puck. Worst case scenario for the Pens, in this scenario, is a draw because the Malkin line just can't bury one. You saw it. I saw it. And, Capuano saw it, because all of a sudden, he was doing making sure to avoid that matchup come the third period.
You know, it's not what you see or I see or what someone else here sees. For me, it's what the opposing coach sees. And, how Capuano changed the matchups in the third last night tells you what he saw.
As I keep saying, if the GM and HC are about the brand of hockey that they claim to be, then Beau goes nowhere until he plays himself off that line.
EDIT: Yeah, I love that 'hey, they turned over the puck a bit' too. Corsi percentage near 70%, pretty much the gold standard against the Isles, means you have the puck so much you're going to have times that you turn it over. Bennett is helping to make Malkin better in a way that no other winger on the Pens roster can, and I actually read complaints that they're not getting enough chances for how much they possess the puck.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
It's been pointed out previously though, the Penguins beat the Bruins in the regular season before they sweeped us in the conference finals.
You are claiming the Penguins have no chance in the playoffs based on what? A 3 game sample?
It's not just losing, it's the manner in which we are losing. That bruins comparison isn't apt. That team didn't have major character issues, we however do. And in NONE of those games did we manhandle the B's. Each game was close. Conversely, In our games against the Isles, we were significantly outplayed in the final period.It's been pointed out previously though, the Penguins beat the Bruins in the regular season before they sweeped us in the conference finals.
You are claiming the Penguins have no chance in the playoffs based on what? A 3 game sample?
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
It's still a 3 game sample. I could use a 3 game sample to "prove" that the Sabres are the best team in the league. It is nearly meaningless.
The Islanders would certainly be a challenge in the playoffs but it is ridiculous to say absolutely that the Penguins couldn't beat them. Both teams are very good and the series would reflect that.
Ok let me say this, currently it's not looking very good. Things can change, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Ugene Magic
EVIL LAUGH
You wouldn't bet on getting Hornqvist and Comeau back?
That is huge change.
I'll bet they change, significantly.
They didn't have Visnovsky, in any case, it really doesn't matter who we have if we don't manage the puck well. My concern is more with that then it is personnel. Although that is also a concern.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
What makes you so sure things won't go well in the playoffs? We have literally no history with Johnston as coach to make projections about the playoffs.
This is what frustrates me about this board. Every reasonable poster in the offseason talked about how none of us can really evaluate the team until we see how they play in the playoffs under Johnston. Now everybody pulls out their doom and gloom every bad loss and acts like the whole post season is a forgone conclusion. It's insanity. The only time any of us will know for sure how the team will play under Johnston in the playoffs is when the playoffs actually happen.
I feel like there are some posters who live to talk about how the team is doomed all year. I don't know why some spend so much time acting like Nostradamus.
Because we DON'T manage the puck well. We get hemmed in our zone far too often. Teams with a quick transition game give us fits. And we've done nothing to aptly combat or counter it.
The Pens could beat them but pending (a) where 14 and 19 are in the top nine, (b) what else the Pens do before the deadline, and (c) what the Isles do before the deadline, I'd consider the Isles the favorite.
That's not to say that the Isles don't have holes, only that the Pens will have a tough time exploiting them at ES if 19 isn't with 71 and 14 is anywhere near the top six.
Or Grabovski.
Right and wrong.
Right in the sense that you've got to score. But, last night, the Malkin line was even at ES, the only Penguins line that was NOT a MINUS. Wrong in the sense that if the Malkin line plays like that over a 7 game series, then it's a HUGE plus for the Pens. See, this is where Jiggy was cautioning. You won't score every night, no matter the chances, no matter how much possession.
Oh, and by the way, how many goals did the 'dominant' Crosby line have at ES? The answer is zero. Their one ES goal was with Malkin at LW.
Look, possession guarantees nothing. There's stuff like puck luck and injuries (you know, the reasons an inferior Pens team won a cup in 2009, where a better team couldn't win in 2008).
BUT, what possession does is increase the likelihood of a positive outcome.
Malkin played Tavares to a draw for 2 periods while tilting the ice (until Capuano got away from that). The Pens won the special teams battle. That SHOULD be a partial scenario for a Pens path to victory in a 7 game series.
So funny . . . some of the people applauding MJ for trying to build a possession team like the Wings to counter the depth of teams like the Isles and Rangers are complaining because the Malkin line possessed the puck too much to not score and play the Tavares line to a draw. I give up . . .
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NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
Every team has issues. Go to any other team's board and you will see similar complaints. The Penguins are by no means perfect but they are not so flawed that you can definitively say they will fail in the playoffs in the middle of January.
Why are you even watching since you know how the season will ultimately end anyway? Your clairvoyance must make life so boring and predictable.
Mr Jiggyfly
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- Jan 29, 2004
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Preaching to the choir. Now, let's see if Mr 'Analytics' GM and Mr 'Possession Hockey' Coach reach the same conclusion.
I'm just so used to Capuano chasing a Tavares versus Malkin matchup because he figures Tavares will make Malkin play defense most of the night, and that's what usually happens. Last night, Malkin and Beau took the Isles possession game and shoved it right back in their throats. Save one play, where the Pens were in the middle of a line change and then thought it was an icing that wasn't called-- the sequence that led to the clean outlet to Tavares where he danced Despres-- Tavares and Okposo did NOTHING against Malkin and Bennett because they barely ever touched the puck. Worst case scenario for the Pens, in this scenario, is a draw because the Malkin line just can't bury one. You saw it. I saw it. And, Capuano saw it, because all of a sudden, he was doing making sure to avoid that matchup come the third period.
You know, it's not what you see or I see or what someone else here sees. For me, it's what the opposing coach sees. And, how Capuano changed the matchups in the third last night tells you what he saw.
As I keep saying, if the GM and HC are about the brand of hockey that they claim to be, then Beau goes nowhere until he plays himself off that line.
EDIT: Yeah, I love that 'hey, they turned over the puck a bit' too. Corsi percentage near 70%, pretty much the gold standard against the Isles, means you have the puck so much you're going to have times that you turn it over. Bennett is helping to make Malkin better in a way that no other winger on the Pens roster can, and I actually read complaints that they're not getting enough chances for how much they possess the puck.
I'm not worried about BB and Malkin producing. I'm just worried about them being split up if they don't produce the kind of insta numbers it will take to keep them together when Comeau and Hornqvist are back early next month.
It does, and truthfully (cause I occasionally bet hockey games) I have some pretty good money to show for it.
But I sincerely hope the Pens can figure out a way to remedy their issues. I just wouldn't count on it.
Yep.
Problem is, look at this stretch. Not easy to accrue points, especially when your coach would rather play Sutter.
Minny was a cupcake, but Malkin never tilts the ice against Boston, Montreal, or Isles like he's done with Beau.
3 goals, 4 assists, and otherwise an absolute holy terror playing playoff style 2 way hockey.
As I said, Rangers, Philly, Chicago.
Against the Rangers traditionally, a good game has Malkin as a possession draw who picks up a point or two.
Against the Flyers, he's a train wreck.
Against Chicago, he may as well not skate, that's how little he possesses the puck.
Let's see how Beau changes that.
EDIT: BTW, how many goals has the 'dominant' Kunitz-Crosby-Perron line had together these last 3 games at ES? I count the 2 against Minny. Am I missing any others? But, yeah, you're right. MJ won't 'see' that, because what he wants to 'see' is Bennett with Sutter.
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