Post-Game Talk: Islanders @ Rangers - 10/14/2014

[silverfish]

the MSL at center crock needs to end

I don't think we agree often, but I definitely agree with this.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Duke has not done anything to deserve the demotion.

He's not been a detriment on the ice. And has shown more than capable of playing in this league.

Sending him down after 9 games would be poor asset management and plain dumb

hes a scoring threat at any time on a team that desperately needs goals.

ya, lets send him down.

hes been a wonderful surprise. he stays.

 

[Doctyl]

We're using a year of Duke's ELC whether he stays or goes back to juniors. Lets worry about right now and not whether he will become a UFA at 26 or 27, thats years away.

 

[pld459666]

Staal didn't really make any mistakes on the first goal. The Isles broke the puck out and he wasn't able to intercept a pass in the neutral zone but it wasn't an oddman rush and Kostka just plain screwed up

I know, which is why I started off by saying what Staal did or didn't do.

I am hazy on the first turnover, but it's pointless.

Kostka could have and should have made the safe play in that situtaion.

It doesn't matter what system you play, if you feel you are in trouble, you go hard up the boards.

That Kostka felt safe enough to make THOSE decisions tells me all i need to know about his ability to play this game at it's highest level.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I know, which is why I started off by saying what Staal did or didn't do.

I am hazy on the first turnover, but it's pointless.

Kostka could have and should have made the safe play in that situtaion.

It doesn't matter what system you play, if you feel you are in trouble, you go hard up the boards.

That Kostka felt safe enough to make THOSE decisions tells me all i need to know about his ability to play this game at it's highest level.

You are saying he is pretty much [MOD]terrible at decision making? Cause I agree

 

[Zil]

He didn't score = bad game


Unless Duclair starts looking like Costco did last night, he's not going anywhere. He has contributed more offensively than most of the forwards, thus far. Has primary assist on half of Nash's goals too.
Also, I thought 9 games isn't the limit because an ELC year is already burned?

The only mark to be concerned with is 40 games. If he plays 40, then he'll reach UFA at 26 rather than 27, but if he's good enough to stay in the lineup then who really cares?

But remember, that puts us in a bind. If he falls off a cliff, we're stuck with him and benching him would severely impact his development.

What? They can send him back to juniors whenever they want. There is no rule that says he can't go down if he plays too many NHL games.

 

[NYR89]

What's going to be better for him.

Training with an amature staff and kids he is clearly better than?

OR

Training with a world class staff and men he has shown to be good enough to compete with and not look one bit out of place?

If there's a situation available to him that will allow him to get stonger, then I submit that it would be with the Rangers Training staff and facilities than in Quebec.

A players physical stature should never really determine if a player can stick at the NHL level. Are there exceptions to that rule? Absoluytely. if he was 160lbs at 5'11" then yeah, he needs to add a good 20 lbs of muscle.

As it is, Duke is 5'11" and 180, most sites are not really all that current so i would expect that Duke is probably pushing 185

I don't disagree with you. It'll be an interesting case. In reality, it's not like if he sticks he's going to be playing on the 4th line. AV is using him and giving him minutes. If that's going to be the case for the season then keep him. I just don't think it's a guarantee that he stays.

Edit: It's also not about "earning the demotion". Sometimes it's about contracts and keeping a guy locked up longer.

 

[AHB*]

The only mark to be concerned with is 40 games. If he plays 40, then he'll reach UFA at 26 rather than 27, but if he's good enough to stay in the lineup then who really cares?



What? They can send him back to juniors whenever they want. There is no rule that says he can't go down if he plays too many NHL games.

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[Doctyl]

The only mark to be concerned with is 40 games. If he plays 40, then he'll reach UFA at 26 rather than 27, but if he's good enough to stay in the lineup then who really cares?

That is so far away thought that it really shouldnt impact their decision right now. Right now he has 3 points in 4 games and does not look out of place at all in this league. Hes getting decent scoring chances too, I'm sure he'll score soon. The only reason to send him down would be if he simply was not ready to handle this league. I don't think thats the case at all. Some people expect him to be sent down, I'm really not sure why. The rangers gain nothing by sending him down except that extra RFA year, but this team will look very different in 7 years.

 

[Levitate]

hes a scoring threat at any time on a team that desperately needs goals.

ya, lets send him down.

hes been a wonderful surprise. he stays.

Well, actually the team has the leading scorer in the league and is averaging almost 3 goals per game, that's pretty good!

The downside being that they're giving up 5 goals per game...

But really defensive play is the biggest issue right now. I dont' think there's any reason to send Duclair down now, but if he seems to start struggling as games go on then I think the Rangers will play it safe. I suspect he'll always have moments in games when he looks like a scoring threat but he's gotta be able to perform in other areas of the ice

And when Stepan comes back...what?

Duclair-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Brassard-MSL
Hagelin-Hayes-Zuccarello
Malone/Glass-Moore-Stempniak?

Honestly the Rangers are pretty deep down the wing and if they keep Duclair up it forces Stempniak down a line lower than he should probably be playing...it's not BAD to have depth but with how well he's been playing, the Rangers should be trying to get him more icetime, not less.

Then again he might also slip as time goes on, hard to say.

As others have said, Hayes might end up securing that 3C spot if he keeps playing like this. He's had more grade A scoring chances in the past two games than Miller has had in the preseason and regular season combined. One way or the other he seems to keep making things happen. Would like to see some comparisons of QoC and zone starts though

 

[Doctyl]

Malone-Moore-Stemp is a pretty capable 4th line offensively. I feel bad that Stemp gets pushed down to the 4th, but thats incredible depth.

 

[pld459666]

I don't disagree with you. It'll be an interesting case. In reality, it's not like if he sticks he's going to be playing on the 4th line. AV is using him and giving him minutes. If that's going to be the case for the season then keep him. I just don't think it's a guarantee that he stays.

Edit: It's also not about "earning the demotion". Sometimes it's about contracts and keeping a guy locked up longer.

Of course there's no guarantee, but as ZIL mentioned above, the team can send him to Juniors at any point during the season. They are not forced to keep him on the NHL roster after the 9 game mark.

 

[TheTakedown]

Why crap? The forwards were more then fine last night. In fact, I thought they were good.

msl at center

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Duclair didn't have a bad game last night, but parts of his game were bad. His unwillingness to engage on the boards while cycling really killed his line's offensive zone time. It's not something he can't improve upon, but his board work in general is noticeably bad.

There's such a thing as constructive criticism. Not every critique is a personal affront on the kid. I still think he deserves to stay, but he definitely has some warts on his game, as you would expect any player coming straight out of juniors to have.

 

[Krams]

I think that a lot of posters have unreasonably high expectations for a kid who turned 19 two months ago. I couldn't be happier with Duke's start to the season.

 

[NHL Fanatik*]

Hello all! New poster here.

I am actually a Devils fan, but I come in peace. I have viewed HF for quite some time now, and have mainly viewed main boards as well as the Islanders, Devils, and Rangers boards.

I absolutely love discussing hockey, but tend to see cross-board conversations go south more often than not. So, I decided I shall come and make a peace treaty for myself (also going to on the Isles board). As you can see by my name, I am an NHL fan overall, but a Devil fan at heart. So please don't hate me... only when we play!

Now, I watched the Ranger game last night and I must say Kostka was very underwhelming. Like some have said, it Torts was here he'd be gone. BUT, I do think he looked very startled and nervous. Now, I will admit I dont know much about him, which is why Im here. Is his hockey IQ truly that low (as some make it seem), or did he just have a real case of nervousness? Because I truly don't see Hunwick as much of a better option.

Edit: posted in wrong thread initially.

 

[pld459666]

Hello all! New poster here.

I am actually a Devils fan, but I come in peace. I have viewed HF for quite some time now, and have mainly viewed main boards as well as the Islanders, Devils, and Rangers boards.

I absolutely love discussing hockey, but tend to see cross-board conversations go south more often than not. So, I decided I shall come and make a peace treaty for myself (also going to on the Isles board). As you can see by my name, I am an NHL fan overall, but a Devil fan at heart. So please don't hate me... only when we play!

Now, I watched the Ranger game last night and I must say Kostka was very underwhelming. Like some have said, it Torts was here he'd be gone. BUT, I do think he looked very startled and nervous. Now, I will admit I dont know much about him, which is why Im here. Is his hockey IQ truly that low (as some make it seem), or did he just have a real case of nervousness? Because I truly don't see Hunwick as much of a better option.

Edit: posted in wrong thread initially.

Neither guy is ideal (Hunwick or Kostka) but until one of Allen or McIlrath show to be more trust worthy, the two guys above will be the guys rotating in and out of the line up.

Going strictly off the style we play, Hunwick is the better option as he actually has decent mobility, the rest of his game seems to be lacking and I think that's where he stumbled to the point of giving Kostka a look.

My preference right now would to be give Allen a shot. No, he didn't impress in camp but based on what we are seeing, he really can't be any worse.

Kostka has been bad since pre-season. I don't think I watched a game where he did one good thing that stood out or impressed me. OTOH, there were many WTF moments from him in the preseason games I watched and he's carried that over to the reg. season.

Welcome to the boards.

 

[Levitate]

Kostka started the season last year with the Leafs, in fact they even switched Phaneuf to his off side so that they could play Kostka with him and give him big minutes.

My point being that the Leafs are a very stupid and poorly run franchise.

But my other point being, this isn't the first time Kostka's played in the NHL and if he's still nervous and making horrible mistakes then it's just more proof he isn't cut out to be a NHLer

e: I don't think Hunwick did anything bad for Kostka to be given a look, the issue is that Hunwick is a left handed D and he needs to play the right side to make up for Dan Boyle being out. That makes some things difficult, and AV wanted to give a right handed D a shot there to see how it went. The results were poor.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

Hello all! New poster here.

I am actually a Devils fan, but I come in peace. I have viewed HF for quite some time now, and have mainly viewed main boards as well as the Islanders, Devils, and Rangers boards.

I absolutely love discussing hockey, but tend to see cross-board conversations go south more often than not. So, I decided I shall come and make a peace treaty for myself (also going to on the Isles board). As you can see by my name, I am an NHL fan overall, but a Devil fan at heart. So please don't hate me... only when we play!

Now, I watched the Ranger game last night and I must say Kostka was very underwhelming. Like some have said, it Torts was here he'd be gone. BUT, I do think he looked very startled and nervous. Now, I will admit I dont know much about him, which is why Im here. Is his hockey IQ truly that low (as some make it seem), or did he just have a real case of nervousness? Because I truly don't see Hunwick as much of a better option.

Edit: posted in wrong thread initially.

Not sure to be honest, seen him a bit and it always seems like he is a 7th D-man or AHLer whether that corrects itself and he can hang around just a little bit is yet to be seen,

and Welcome as well... feel free to head over to the OT thread that is always the best place to meet some people on the boards making your stay here all the better

 

[darko]

the MSL at center crock needs to end

Agree. It never should've happened in first place.

 

[haveandare]

Why exactly does everyone hate MSL at center? He's set up perfect tap in goals for Nash twice. He has an assist per game.

Keeping them together with a different center means putting nash on LW when he's killing it on RW right now, and then some other adjustments need to be made to get three top 9 RWs once Nash is put on the left.

I'm not saying he's been ideal, but in this situation, I really don't think having him at center is bad.

 

[Riche16]

Can we retire #4?

Not raise it to the rafters... just retire it

 

[BroadwayBlues]

Why exactly does everyone hate MSL at center? He's set up perfect tap in goals for Nash twice. He has an assist per game.

Keeping them together with a different center means putting nash on LW when he's killing it on RW right now, and then some other adjustments need to be made to get three top 9 RWs once Nash is put on the left.

I'm not saying he's been ideal, but in this situation, I really don't think having him at center is bad.

Defense bad & it seemingly has taken away his scoring. Don't recall too many good scoring chances for him.

 

[Levitate]

Why exactly does everyone hate MSL at center? He's set up perfect tap in goals for Nash twice. He has an assist per game.

Keeping them together with a different center means putting nash on LW when he's killing it on RW right now, and then some other adjustments need to be made to get three top 9 RWs once Nash is put on the left.

I'm not saying he's been ideal, but in this situation, I really don't think having him at center is bad.

His defense is meh and kind of confused but they've been producing offensively so in some ways it's probably the best of a bad situation for hte moment

 

[silverfish]

Kostka started the season last year with the Leafs, in fact they even switched Phaneuf to his off side so that they could play Kostka with him and give him big minutes.

My point being that the Leafs are a very stupid and poorly run franchise.

But my other point being, this isn't the first time Kostka's played in the NHL and if he's still nervous and making horrible mistakes then it's just more proof he isn't cut out to be a NHLer

e: I don't think Hunwick did anything bad for Kostka to be given a look, the issue is that Hunwick is a left handed D and he needs to play the right side to make up for Dan Boyle being out. That makes some things difficult, and AV wanted to give a right handed D a shot there to see how it went. The results were poor.

Well, the Leafs run on analytics, and Kostka's fenwick was through the roof last night... so.... not sure what point you're trying to make....

This is obviously a tongue in cheek post. I know the Leafs are heavy handed in analytics starting this season. This is also not a complete shot at fancystats, which I believe are a fantastic complement to today's game, but opens a good argument against why you cannot use fancystats as a stand alone way to evaluate a player