Post-Game Talk: Islanders 4, Penguins 1 - Was It Over When The Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor?

[The Objective troll]

Isles had played far better team game than the pens all year long. The pens got by on crosby and Guentzel in the regular season. When you neutralize that, this is what you get..

 

[BHD]

You sure?

Seriously, though. From a performance standpoint, I don't know where it went wrong with this team.

 

[WayneSid9987]

think the ultimate issue is between JR and Sullivan.

Absolutely.
They really had to do nothing/very little/not cause an issue with a player and they have a better team because of it with guys like
Hagelin, Sundqvist+Kostin, Ian Cole, Riiko taking JJ's spot on the roster...
Can still do the Brass/Shea > Bjugs/McCann and Sprong > MP deals.
Trust in the Blueger's/Johnson's over the ZAR's/Wilson's.
Voila!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It is what it is, man. It'll be the first time I can remember where I'm just entirely apathetic when it comes to the outcome of this season. We could get swept and I'd just shrug. This is the reality of the team we root for. If Sid and Jake aren't overwhelming the opposition, and Murray isn't winning us games we don't really deserve to be winning, we're just as much of a big turd as we've seemed all series. That's on the coach, the players, but most importantly (imo), JR.

I'm already in off-season mode. Ah well.

 

[ColePens]

Amen.

Plus people don't appreciate that there would be a price to pay for that deal you made with the devil for that 2017 cup.

I am so afraid to check my post history because i'm pretty sure i may have even sold my family's soul for a Pens back to back win to the hockey gods.

That's fair, but it does nothing for the discussion of what the issues are and how to go about fixing them.

I'll be pretty bummed if we keep going on this trajectory and when JR is interviewed after another lackluster season, his answer is "We won back to backs a few years ago. It's all gravy, baby."

To this board's credit though, most of the discussion's been pretty level-headed and civil. At least the stuff I've seen and participated in.

Being frustrated is natural. I'm very disappointed. It's laughable when you tune in for entertainment and they are out for a Sunday skate. It's completely natural to be frustrated. Some people have no control over that anger and it's easy to point them out on the board.

But yeah if you aren't somewhat frustrated/disappointed, then you aren't really a fan. The expectation is Cup every single year. That's a pretty cool expectation to have. Some of us were born into the Mario era where the first thing we knew about hockey was that the Pens have the GOAT player and we are most likely Cup contenders if he stays healthy. Then we went through en era where we hoped one of our prospects would not fall down when trying to stop. Now we are back to expecting a Cup every single year. It's beautiful.

 

[Tender Rip]

Seriously, though. From a performance standpoint, I don't know where it went wrong with this team.

I think the main thing is that we do not have a style of play anymore. There's nothing that really define our game beyond winning when our stars make it happen/PP is hot/goal tending is great. They could come our and get confidence by a goal or two in game 4 and we could then win a few games even if game 3 and how badly we were outperformed makes that seem really unlikely. But it could easily happen with our weapons.
We just don't have an identity to fall back on to just keep us solid when things are not going our way.... which makes us very fragile and that makes it pretty impossible to keep up hope for some magical return to relevance in this series.

The good part about our problem is that several/many of our players are not as bad/bland as what people want to make out now. The big challenge is that most our key guys are old enough that the "can't teach an old dog new tricks" adage holds, and to get our key players to commit to consistently playing a certain way (don't know which way that should be to be honest) was always difficult. More so when it will require a coaching change most likely, which is always hit and miss, and JR has certainly also been that since the repeat.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

I’ve said this before and I’m sure it either went unnoticed or people will think I’m crazy but I still think that losing Fleury has had and still has an effect on Murray.
I know he had a rough year with his dad passing and injuries but JR should have brought in some veteran presence as a backup. If that was even possible.

I don’t know what’s going to happen this summer but if I were Mario & company, I’d keep both JR and Sullivan on a very short leash. If JR makes the right moves and the team is still inconsistent or underperforming, then you get rid of Sullivan. If JR is icing practically the same team, you get rid of him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

But that's my point in terms of the "team game". Let's give fault, eh?

1) Sid/Geno/Letang/Jake: The worst 3 games from these 4. I think if you had me point out who had the absolute worst effort, it's these 4. All of 'em out for Sunday skates. And people joke about Phil's effort? Phil looks like he's Gary Roberts compared to these 4. Jake/Sid/Geno especially. I've never seen so many lazy loops back/forth. They cheat up ice. They don't support. Pathetic d-responsibility in the o-zone (which you pointed out all year).

2) The entire defense: But we already knew this.

3) The lack of adjustment in structure to help support defensively.

4) The powerplay at important times

5) The defense again

I think the biggest thing is people being all upset about Simon with Crosby and Guentzel, but you can tell lots of people don’t understand the nuts and bolts of why he was moved there.

Crosby’s line couldn’t break out of their own zone and they needed a guy like Simon who can make those short area reads and plays to get them out.

When they didn’t have Letang behind them, they got pinned hard. This is exactly why you need a more mobile defense to break the puck out.

It’s a massive weakness that needs fixed.

 

[KIRK]

Seriously, though. From a performance standpoint, I don't know where it went wrong with this team.

After the 2017 cup, they started drinking their kool aid again.

Truth be told, if Geno didn't go on that 2 month tear and Sid didn't get hot going into the playoffs last year, then I'm not sure we're not dealing with the uncomfortable questions before now.

Maybe, in the end, it was the 4 months in 2018 from the deadline deals (however right they may have seemed at the time) to JR's inexplicable June where it really started to go wrong.

 

[KIRK]

I think the biggest thing is people being all upset about Simon with Crosby and Guentzel, but you can tell lots of people don’t understand the nuts and bolts of why he was moved there.

Crosby’s line couldn’t break out of their own zone and they needed a guy like Simon who can make those short area reads and plays to get them out.

When they didn’t have Letang behind them, they got pinned hard. This is exactly why you need a more mobile defense to break the puck out.

It’s a massive weakness that needs fixed.

Let's be honest . . . the defense needs a full overhaul.

 

[Pancakes]

I am so afraid to check my post history because i'm pretty sure i may have even sold my family's soul for a Pens back to back win to the hockey gods.



Being frustrated is natural. I'm very disappointed. It's laughable when you tune in for entertainment and they are out for a Sunday skate. It's completely natural to be frustrated. Some people have no control over that anger and it's easy to point them out on the board.

But yeah if you aren't somewhat frustrated/disappointed, then you aren't really a fan. The expectation is Cup every single year. That's a pretty cool expectation to have. Some of us were born into the Mario era where the first thing we knew about hockey was that the Pens have the GOAT player and we are most likely Cup contenders if he stays healthy. Then we went through en era where we hoped one of our prospects would not fall down when trying to stop. Now we are back to expecting a Cup every single year. It's beautiful.

The losing doesn't bother me so much as the manner in which they are losing. It's hard to stomach watching them just roll over. They can say they care and are playing with effort, but I sure haven't seen it. Guys are looping out there and losing every battle. No heart this series.

And it's so weird to see because that's not what I've come to expect from this group. Last year they lost because of mistakes, not effort. This year? Sure there have been mistakes, but more troubling by far is the (lack of) effort.

 

[BHD]

I think the main thing is that we do not have a style of play anymore. There's nothing that really define our game beyond winning when our stars make it happen/PP is hot/goal tending is great. They could come our and get confidence by a goal or two in game 4 and we could then win a few games even if game 3 and how badly we were outperformed makes that seem really unlikely. But it could easily happen with our weapons.
We just don't have an identity to fall back on to just keep us solid when things are not going our way.... which makes us very fragile and that makes it pretty impossible to keep up hope for some magical return to relevance in this series.

The good part about our problem is that several/many of our players are not as bad/bland as what people want to make out now. The big challenge is that most our key guys are old enough that the "can't teach an old dog new tricks" adage holds, and to get our key players to commit to consistently playing a certain way (don't know which way that should be to be honest) was always difficult. More so when it will require a coaching change most likely, which is always hit and miss, and JR has certainly also been that since the repeat.

Thanks. This puts things into perspective.

 

[lastcupever75]

Exactly that game could’ve easily been 6-1 today. He made huge save after huge save. That first goal sucked, but if a certain pens player made it, we be hearing how amazing of a goal and shot it was.

it a pass that should never get thru the defense like it did. murray went from one side of his post to the other to try and stop it and left the top corner open.

eberle would have had the whole top half of the net to shoot at if that was fluery

 

[treeni12]

move team to seattle

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Let's be honest . . . the defense needs a full overhaul.

They are stuck with lots of guys to move and we aren’t going to see half the D moved unfortunately.

Maatta absolutely needs to go... one of Gubs or JJ really needs to go as well, but I’m not sure JR sees it that way.

I’m more than a little afraid he doesn’t believe the D is an issue, seeing as how he’s built it this way.

That’s why at this point I’m hoping for a sweep. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to happen going into these playoffs... but now there is a chance for JR to truly get embarrassed and I suspect he needs that kind of major jolt to realize how badly he’s f***ed up the D.

 

[Darren McCord]

I think this is the off-season they need to dump and reset a bit. They actually have some decent prospects for once. Trade some deadweight, develop guys like hallandar, kasper, jordy, drozg and Addison.

Please no more bloated Dmen deals.

I think they can still get another cup with the core of sid, geno, and letang. Maybe phil but I think he is the scapegoat.

 

[Darren McCord]

They are stuck with lots of guys to move and we aren’t going to see half the D moved unfortunately.

Maatta absolutely needs to go... one of Gubs or JJ really needs to go as well, but I’m not sure JR sees it that way.

I’m more than a little afraid he doesn’t believe the D is an issue, seeing as how he’s built it this way.

That’s why at this point I’m hoping for a sweep. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to happen going into these playoffs... but now there is a chance for JR to truly get embarrassed and I suspect he needs that kind of major jolt to realize how badly he’s ****ed up the D.

Unfortunately they will probably lose 1 - 0. Then he will praise the defense and blame the forwards for not scoring

 

[KIRK]

They are stuck with lots of guys to move and we aren’t going to see half the D moved unfortunately.

Maatta absolutely needs to go... one of Gubs or JJ really needs to go as well, but I’m not sure JR sees it that way.

I’m more than a little afraid he doesn’t believe the D is an issue, seeing as how he’s built it this way.

That’s why at this point I’m hoping for a sweep. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to happen going into these playoffs... but now there is a chance for JR to truly get embarrassed and I suspect he needs that kind of major jolt to realize how badly he’s ****ed up the D.

I want to believe you're right. I really do.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Unfortunately they will probably lose 1 - 0. Then he will praise the defense and blame the forwards for not scoring

Someone with stones at the season ending presser should ask him why his team had severe troubles getting out of their zone agt the Isles.

Thing is he’s honest and won’t beat around the bush... but that answer would tell me a lot about if he can fix this team or not.

I want to believe you're right. I really do.

I’m not saying the jolt he will get will make him do the right thing though. Just saying there’s a chance and that’s about the only hope we have.

 

[KIRK]

Someone with stones at the season ending presser should ask him why his team had severe troubles getting out of their zone at the Isles.

Thing is he’s honest and won’t beat around the bush... but that answer would tell me a lot about if he can fix this team or not.

None of them will have the stones because none of them a piss without JR's permission.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They are stuck with lots of guys to move and we aren’t going to see half the D moved unfortunately.

Maatta absolutely needs to go... one of Gubs or JJ really needs to go as well, but I’m not sure JR sees it that way.

I’m more than a little afraid he doesn’t believe the D is an issue, seeing as how he’s built it this way.

That’s why at this point I’m hoping for a sweep. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to happen going into these playoffs... but now there is a chance for JR to truly get embarrassed and I suspect he needs that kind of major jolt to realize how badly he’s ****ed up the D.

Over the next two seasons, if we get our wits about us and get serious about getting back to a speed/aggressive style, I'd expect Kessel and Horny gone from this forward group. Maatta and JJ are guys we need to move--need to. Gudbranson isn't stellar for what we're trying to do, but he's been at least serviceable in a bottom pairing role most of the time. Still, wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if he was moved. Schultz needs to figure out his issues, because he's making way too much money and has too important a role to be a dud offensively and in transition.

It's not going to happen in one off-season, for sure, but those are the problem players.

On a sarcastic, snarky note; I sure am glad JR saw the need to not only target JJ for a five year deal, but make a huge point of saying he was wrongfully vilified in Columbus, Torts had it out for him, and that he (meaning JR) just knew better.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Over the next two seasons, if we get our wits about us and get serious about getting back to a speed/aggressive style, I'd expect Kessel and Horny gone from this forward group. Maatta and JJ are guys we need to move--need to. Gudbranson isn't stellar for what we're trying to do, but he's been at least serviceable in a bottom pairing role most of the time. Still, wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if he was moved. Schultz needs to figure out his issues, because he's making way too much money and has too important a role to be a dud offensively and in transition.

It's not going to happen in one off-season, for sure, but those are the problem players.

On a sarcastic, snarky note; I sure am glad JR saw the need to not only target JJ for a five year deal, but make a huge point of saying he was wrongfully vilified in Columbus, Torts had it out for him, and that he (meaning JR) just knew better.

I can’t see any realistic scenarios where Hornqvist is moved. There would be a market for him, but it won’t happen I believe.

I think Maatta and Kessel will be moved... maybeeee Gubs because it’s a one year deal...

That’s basically a nuclear summer.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

move team to seattle

Nope. I'm #599 on the Seattle Kraken (or whatever their name will be) season ticket deposit list and want a fresh new crew, Vegas style, along with quality powder for the future. Expansion draft rules are going to be pretty much the same this next go around, hope to see a familiar Pen or two playing in the PacNW.

 

[BoysofWinter66871]

I can’t see any realistic scenarios where Hornqvist is moved. There would be a market for him, but it won’t happen I believe.

I think Maatta and Kessel will be moved... maybeeee Gubs because it’s a one year deal...

That’s basically a nuclear summer.

I'd move Hornqvist before Kessel based on this series. When Phil is the hardest working guy out there, there's an issue!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You sure?

I can't wait for more puff pieces by Yohe to talk about how so and so is an amazing human, whilst the team burns it all down in 4.