Post-Game Talk: Islanders 4, Penguins 1 - Was It Over When The Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor?

[Honour Over Glory]

You don't need a team full of Hagelins to be a fast team. Basically every team I watch in the post-season plays at a clip that's orders of magnitude faster than us.

We employ that system, but can't get up and running because of an awfully constructed blueline.

Exactly.

It's what I have been saying, if you watch the Pens play, they take too long moving the puck up the ice and when they do, they do it in the most predictable way and the worst way possible.

Shove it up neutral, that didn't work?
Force it up the boards, that didn't work?
Lateral pass until a forward swings low, then skate up the ice into numbers...that definitely did not work.

One of those ends up working and by then, the other team has adjusted to us and clog us up. If you watch the 2016 or 2017 run, you see a team that made quick outlet passes up after the defense skated it up the ice just to the blueline and the forwards and defense played like a unit.

The Isles look good, because they're playing our game right to our faces, but this team hasn't played "their game" since 2017.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Must be nice to just get a:
Patches-Stastny-Stone

over the course of one year.

Or a Erik Karlsson+E.Kane+Nyquist.

JR needs to gut CASHHHHH.

 

[lastcupever75]

Sullivan deserves blame due to his line blender and the fact the top six is fairly easy to resolve. If he wants to preach a hard line and demand accountability he can’t let Sid or Malkin choose their line mates. I didn’t disagree with the way Sprong was treated here, but there was definitely truth in what some people were getting upset about.

Rutherford has banked top five payroll into one of the worst D cores in the league. All we had to do was sign De Haan or acquire Jensen at the deadline and not sign or acquire Gudbranson or JJ. Gudbranson has been good for us, but he has 4 mil on his contract and another year.

He also didn’t address the glaring hole at Lw ( granted I’m not super down on that given it likely costs our 1st).

even if those moves were made, the way those 4 have played woulnd't have made a difference.
their lack of effort is appalling

 

[WayneSid9987]

even if those moves were made, the way those 4 have played woulnd't have made a difference.
their lack of effort is appalling

When you've played behind this D all season with a now banged up Letang/Dumo trying their best, it can sap the life right outta ya.

 

[Gurglesons]

even if those moves were made, the way those 4 have played woulnd't have made a difference.
their lack of effort is appalling

I mean, to a degree. To another degree as @KIRK has brought up it looks like 2015 and they’re on an island with a bunch of bottom sixers that don’t do anything and look at them to do everything.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I can pretty easily.

Crosby, Malkin and Kessel are 2 years older.
Schultz, Rust, Hornqvist, Dumoulin and Murray are nothing compared to what they were in 2017 (comparing both Murray/Fleury in 2017 to Murray in 2019)
Simon is no Sheary, ZAR is no Kunitz, Johnson is no Cole and Gudbranson is no Daley

That 2017 team was carried by opportunistic scoring and goalies pulling rabbits out of their asses. This team can't score and doesn't have the goaltending to steal a series, combined with all of the problems of the 2017 team. Not exactly a recipe for success. This team just isn't very good. I'm not mad about it, I'm not upset about it. It is what it is.

Can’t blame Murray for what is happening out there. During the Fleury era, we just wanted a goalie that could make a basic save. Murray gave us that and more. Remember we won 2 cups with Murray’s weak glove hand which isn’t so weak anymore. Now he’s expected to stop constant odd man rushes?

Schultz is 28 and Dumo is 27. Hardly over the hill for a D and more should be hitting their prime. Considering old man Chara is still running around and Orpik is scoring OT goals.

I suspect Schultz never really got himself into game form being out so long. Dumoulin injury is probably still bothering him.

McCann is better than Hagelin.
Bjugstad better than Bonino.

Yes players are older so yes there is some slowing down. Maybe we need to combine Crosby and Malkin into one line and start looking for a new 1C. I don’t know.

Yes maybe upgrade a D but right now, we should be able to ride a top 4 in the playoffs as many teams do.

None of the things you mention point to us getting almost swept in the 1st round.

The bone headed pinches by Letang and Dumoulin short handed all point to coaching, or not listening to coaching.

Players losing their mind in game 2 has shades of DB all over again.

Key issue I’m seeing is...coaching.

I bet Sully won’t have a short leash and we’ll probably get another year of this, but who knows.

It isn't about frustration.

It's about acceptance.

If the premise is that we got lucky in 2017, then yes I can accept we aren’t very good.

If I accept that, then I would feel that the Crosby Malkin era is pretty much over and we need to build for the future.

I don’t think I’m ready for that yet. It’s not me being stubborn, but honestly seeing all the pieces of the puzzle with a fresh head on the bench.

Sully is a great coach but I think he may have gotten stale or is on the edge of becoming stale.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

You never know what will happen for sure, but we will likely see rumors about Kessel start to “leak” out in the coming months I bet.

How is that different from basically every other minute of the year? I get anxious when I don't get to read something about Kessel being shopped or traded in the off-season for the past 4 years.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you honestly think that as of this series one of the important problems to fix is that Kessel isn't young or hungry enough when you have a team full of young, hungry turds being even more ineffective...

Kessel plays best on a team that has PMD who can make that first pass. I've literally never seen a team pass to him on transition less than this season's incarnation of the Penguins, and if that's a sign of this team's limitations in the seasons to come, they really should move him, if only for his own sake because he'd be completely wasted here when he's still got some good years left. He's got none left if the goal is to keep playing this ****ty dump and chase low IQ garbage.

I've posted as length why Kessel's a problem moving forward, don't care to go into it again. Doesn't matter, because he's gone anyway.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Exactly.

It's what I have been saying, if you watch the Pens play, they take too long moving the puck up the ice and when they do, they do it in the most predictable way and the worst way possible.

Shove it up neutral, that didn't work?
Force it up the boards, that didn't work?
Lateral pass until a forward swings low, then skate up the ice into numbers...that definitely did not work.

One of those ends up working and by then, the other team has adjusted to us and clog us up. If you watch the 2016 or 2017 run, you see a team that made quick outlet passes up after the defense skated it up the ice just to the blueline and the forwards and defense played like a unit.

The Isles look good, because they're playing our game right to our faces, but this team hasn't played "their game" since 2017.

Yes, the D trying to make the perfect pass instead of just chipping/hacking/poking it up past the blue line. The F would then try to work with it and keep going. It wasn’t pretty but it was really fast.

Right now we look like we doing what we did during the DB era.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yes, the D trying to make the perfect pass instead of just chipping/hacking/poking it up past the blue line. The F would then try to work with it and keep going. It wasn’t pretty but it was really fast.

Right now we look like we doing what we did during the DB era.

Exactly what I see as well. It's like we've reverted to the Bylsma that couldn't adapt and adjust.

Except in this scenario, Sullivan & Tocchet's teams in 2016 and 2017 ushered in the trend that is what teams have evolved their teams into - Speedy. Instead of adapting to it, Sullivan lost Tocchet and can't seem to grasp how to get it done.

Adam Johnson is fast as f*** and was in on the forecheck faster than anyone else, Cullen even looked like he got younger because of that and then you have Blueger who was also playing quick and was a threat on the PK pretty much everytime he was out there, oddly enough.

Both are out, but were vital to the Pens playing quicker again. Red Wings burned our asses with Speed and it still didn't clue into the coach that he needs to use that speed.

 

[treeni12]

I would like to see

Guentzel - crosby - Malkin
McCann - Bjugstad - Kessel
Simon-Blueger-Hörnqvist
Johson - Cullen - x

Letang - Dumolin
Ruhwedel - Schultz
Petterson - Riikola

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Must be nice to just get a:
Patches-Stastny-Stone

over the course of one year.

Or a Erik Karlsson+E.Kane+Nyquist.

JR needs to gut CASHHHHH.

It's weird how Vegas isn't ass with trash bags like Reaves, McNabb, and Engelland playing regular shifts.

Must also feel weird to play youth and not just rely so heavily on veterans all the time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hey at least Letang, Crosby, and Malkin are leading us!

In give-aways.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Must be nice to just get a:
Patches-Stastny-Stone

over the course of one year.

Or a Erik Karlsson+E.Kane+Nyquist.

JR needs to gut CASHHHHH.

You gotta remember all of those guys went from the East to the West in trades. If you thought we had a shot at getting those guys for what they gave up, you're wrong.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I would like to see

Guentzel - crosby - Malkin
McCann - Bjugstad - Kessel
Simon-Blueger-Hörnqvist
Johson - Cullen - x

Letang - Dumolin
Ruhwedel - Schultz
Petterson - Riikola

You know what? At this point, why not? We've got nothing to lose, and nothing else is working. Just load up L1 with Sid, Geno and Jake, and take our chances.

One of the main issues I've had with Sullivan is his obsession with making sure all four lines have balance even when NONE of the lines can even produce.

Maybe Crosby/Malkin/Guentzel ends up sucking also. But again, what do they have to lose at this point?

 

[WayneSid9987]

You gotta remember all of those guys went from the East to the West in trades. If you thought we had a shot at getting those guys for what they gave up, you're wrong.

The point was more it's time to gut the cash you're paying for crappy stuff so you can land guys when they become available like the ones i mentioned.

McDonaugh/Miller went East to East.
You wanna get in on stuff like that you need the flexibility and assets.
I'd gut the expensive crappy stuff + sell off big names this summer.

ETA: Take the Muzzin deal as an example. JR couldn't even wade into those waters cuz LA wasn't taking salary back.
Ducks also didn't want salary back in the Montour deal.
I also gut cash immediately cuz the UFA winger market is ripe.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The point was more it's time to gut the cash you're paying for crappy stuff so you can land guys when they become available like the ones i mentioned.

McDonaugh/Miller went East to East.
You wanna get in on stuff like that you need the flexibility and assets.
I'd gut the expensive crappy stuff + sell off big names this summer.

ETA: Take the Muzzin deal as an example. JR couldn't even wade into those waters cuz LA wasn't taking salary back.
Ducks also didn't want salary back in the Montour deal.

On February 26, 2018, the Rangers traded McDonagh along with J. T. Miller to the Tampa Bay Lightning in exchange for Libor Hájek, Brett Howden, Vladislav Namestnikov, a first-round pick in the 2018 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional second-round pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft

I mean you see that trade right?

We'd have to give up a prospect taken 1st, another taken 2nd, a forward taken 1st, and then another 1st, and a conditional 2nd for that package.

Then also magically come up with the cap space to make it all work. I'm not saying its impossible, I'm just saying it's not reasonable to expect that.

And then yeah, as you mentioned, the Montour deal and then the Muzzin deal. Montour was someone I wanted very badly on this team, we got Pettersson instead. I am curious if Montour was even an option at that point. Montour is exactly the kind of D we needed in our depth chart.

PS - Tampa is currently sitting in the same boat as us, down 0-3. Except we didn't finish 1st overall with the best producer in the game, on the roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

The point was more it's time to gut the cash you're paying for crappy stuff so you can land guys when they become available like the ones i mentioned.

McDonaugh/Miller went East to East.
You wanna get in on stuff like that you need the flexibility and assets.
I'd gut the expensive crappy stuff + sell off big names this summer.

ETA: Take the Muzzin deal as an example. JR couldn't even wade into those waters cuz LA wasn't taking salary back.
Ducks also didn't want salary back in the Montour deal.
I also gut cash immediately cuz the UFA winger market is ripe.

Rumour was they pushed hard for Edler which would and could still be a really solid move.

Biggest issue is the fact JR seems to not be able to help himself. Gudbranson has been solid, but he’s just more of the issue in terms of price versus performance.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Rumour was they pushed hard for Edler which would and could still be a really solid move.

Biggest issue is the fact JR seems to not be able to help himself. Gudbranson has been solid, but he’s just more of the issue in terms of price versus performance.

I think if you dump JJ and Maatta and possibly move on Hornqvist just because at this point its frustrating to see him misused, you can hang on to Gudbranson and add 1 guy like Edler to pair with Schultz.

The major issue being...

Edler likes being in Vancouver, Vancouver wants to re-sign him and his wife is from Vancouver.

In short, anything short of an offer that is insulting would make Edler leave.

If our summer is us dumping salary like the guys I mentioned and only adding Edler and say, Dzingel, I'd be happy.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think if you dump JJ and Maatta and possibly move on Hornqvist just because at this point its frustrating to see him misused, you can hang on to Gudbranson and add 1 guy like Edler to pair with Schultz.

The major issue being...

Edler likes being in Vancouver, Vancouver wants to re-sign him and his wife is from Vancouver.

In short, anything short of an offer that is insulting would make Edler leave.

If our summer is us dumping salary like the guys I mentioned and only adding Edler and say, Dzingel, I'd be happy.

I get a feeling that Vancouver doesn’t want to resign him which is weird given he’s like Pettersson’s Gonch.

Maybe he’s asking for too much?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I get a feeling that Vancouver doesn’t want to resign him which is weird given he’s like Pettersson’s Gonch.

Maybe he’s asking for too much?

I think its more to do with Benning finally getting cap space back and being able to add to what is already happening.

Tanev, Stecher, Hughes, and Biega are the only ones under contract.
They need to re-sign Hutton.

Then it leaves a spot open for video game addict, Juolevi. There's also their UFA College kids Rafferty and Teves for competition, both are RFA's. They also have a lot of forwards that are RFA's - Boeser, Goldobin, Granlund, and Levio are guys they'll want to retain.

They're letting Pouliot go I believe, lol.

So committing to another deal with Edler that would be multi-year, I get it if they walk away, they have to keep in mind they will need to dish out a hefty deal for Pettersson at the rate that future star is going. Boeser is looking at Jake Guentzel money, if he isn't, his agent sucks.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If the team is in full on salary drop mode - Yeah I am all for moving Johnson (obviously), Maatta (duh), and Hornqvist (if they won't play him with Sid, why waste him at this point?) - That is a total of 12.63m that JR has to work with.

I do think moving new guys that the team gets is a bad sign to future free agent targets. You get Bjugstad and then ship him off looks bad, I think he's a kid the team should keep, 100% on McCann too.

 

[LOGiK]

I think its more to do with Benning finally getting cap space back and being able to add to what is already happening.

Tanev, Stecher, Hughes, and Biega are the only ones under contract.
They need to re-sign Hutton.

Then it leaves a spot open for video game addict, Juolevi. There's also their UFA College kids Rafferty and Teves for competition, both are RFA's. They also have a lot of forwards that are RFA's - Boeser, Goldobin, Granlund, and Levio are guys they'll want to retain.

They're letting Pouliot go I believe, lol.

So committing to another deal with Edler that would be multi-year, I get it if they walk away, they have to keep in mind they will need to dish out a hefty deal for Pettersson at the rate that future star is going. Boeser is looking at Jake Guentzel money, if he isn't, his agent sucks.

Wait.... video game addicts are real?! No way!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Wait.... video game addicts are real?! No way!

Someone introduced him to Parappa The Rappa and he played it for hours on end.

Like McDavid, it off set his early menopause.

 

[LOGiK]

Someone introduced him to Parappa The Rappa and he played it for hours on end.

Like McDavid, it off set his early menopause.

Parappa! That game was so good.