Post-Game Talk: Islanders 3, Penguins 1 - Not With a Bang, Not Even a Whimper

[Angrrus]

Embarrassing. Geno is 32 and still can’t avoid the after whistle bull****. Guy’s gotta have an IQ of 78.

What you are saying is semantically and medically equal to the term “idiot”. That’s what I call him all the time. And somehow I get blamed of “trolling” for that.

And same people who few days ago blasted me for saying that Crosby often disappears in playoffs, now unanimously say he is a no show in this series so far.

Weird how people eventually come to the same conclusions I’m beating to death all the time, and yet fail to give me credit that I was indeed right once in a while.

 

[Turin]

What you are saying is semantically and medically equal to the term “idiot”. That’s what I call him all the time. And somehow I get blamed of “trolling” for that.

And same people who few days ago blasted me for saying that Crosby often disappears in playoffs, now unanimously say he is a no show in this series so far.

Weird how people eventually come to the same conclusions I’m beating to death all the time, and yet fail to give me credit that I was indeed right once in a while.

Crosby leads the NHL in playoff points per game since 2007.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Crosby leads the NHL in playoff points per game since 2007.

Yea he keeps going back to that and it's a very bad argument with Sid specifically.
While he's not had a great 2 games, he's coming off a playoffs where he was amazing.
1/2 games and this guy tries to bring up every time PIT didn't move foward in the po's like it's all his fault.

Motivation. Lack thereof.

And it’s on the “star” “leadership” core. Half the roster already new. They are not the problem. The guys who remain from 2 cup runs - 87,71,81,58,4,17,72,8 - are undermotivated, and affect the room in a big way.

Naw this is more coaching/unpreparedness and a really shitty and expensive D.
A big thing too is everyone being thrown in to start the PO's and things look worse than they did during their last road trip. Alot of people here hinted that things may get worse and they did.
Thats just horrible timing really with the injuries and the type of injuries(ie. Tanger reaggravating his neck).
Mix in a little Sully's favorite pluggers like ZAR and Wilson, a 42 yr old C and now a banged up McCann and voila!
Welcome to the shit show.

Boil it down and this is on 1) JR 2) Sully and shitty luck, imo.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

No matter what happens, Sullivan will be behind the bench next year.

Rutherford has been trying to fix the roster all season. He knows it's flawed.

If the Pens flame out, I expect multiple moves. None will include Sullivan.

But the Pens haven't flamed out yet. Sunday is a chance to change the tenor of this series. Sullivan has shown an ability to adapt in series multiple times. The Pens are practicing tomorrow when most teams would do an off-ice workout. He won't go quietly.

 

[Burn]

This. Now how much do we blame that on the coaching staff and how much on the players?

We saw this coming in Nov.
Sullivan's a good coach not a great coach. Better than the mess that was Bylsma but hes been caught up to and refuses to adjust. He doesn't have Hags, Cole and Daley and he keeps forcing chip and chase hockey.
Its the style of hockey he played as a player... Chip and chase, get the puck deep, get shots on net, jam away...
You know who else plays that... D8 beer league. You have Crosby and Malkin playing knock hockey.
Full credit to Trotz and the Isle but you watch and break down the goals.... Its Penguins mistakes more than great Islanders plays. That's the staff having them unprepared and to arrogant to change a system to fit the players

 

[WayneSid9987]

We saw this coming in Nov.
Sullivan's a good coach not a great coach. Better than the mess that was Bylsma but hes been caught up to and refuses to adjust. He doesn't have Hags, Cole and Daley and he keeps forcing chip and chase hockey.
Its the style of hockey he played as a player... Chip and chase, get the puck deep, get shots on net, jam away...
You know who else plays that... D8 beer league. You have Crosby and Malkin playing knock hockey.
Full credit to Trotz and the Isle but you watch and break down the goals.... Its Penguins mistakes more than great Islanders plays. That's the staff having them unprepared and to arrogant to change a system to fit the players

But the thing is chip and chase is the correct play if the core want to attempt up tempo vs sit back/trap.
Just seems when they do dump and chase, everyones waiting for everyone else to do the work combined with not a ton of speed compared to the Hags/Sheary teams.

A big thing is the poor construction of this D. Sully+all the core F's wanna push the pace. They cheat up ice(and pinch) constantly. The expensive/low iq engine in the back isn't good enough offensively.

Picture for a moment JJ/MP/Guds skating the puck to the red and dumping/PIT failing to retreive vs rushes that Rig sometimes did and Olli can sometimes do when they're going well.

Reality is they were playing a decent style on the last road trip that involved packing it in/F's back with layers and a couple speedsters with McCann and A.Johnson to go with Rust to go on the forecheck.

Now you have McCann, A.Johnson out, F's cheating up ice, Sully's favorite pluggers plugging away(ZAR, Wilson).
It's simply a recipe thats not gonna lead anywhere like the players and recipe was working for them on the last road trip(Sully quote at the end of that trip in the dressing room "i feel we're building something here.".)

 

[Burn]

But the thing is chip and chase is the correct play if the core want to attempt up tempo vs sit back/trap.
Just seems when they do dump and chase, everyones waiting for everyone else to do the work combined with not a ton of speed compared to the Hags/Sheary teams.

A big thing is the poor construction of this D. Sully+all the core F's wanna push the pace. They cheat up ice(and pinch) constantly. The expensive/low iq engine in the back isn't good enough offensively.

Picture for a moment JJ/MP/Guds skating the puck to the red and dumping/PIT failing to retreive vs rushes that Rig sometimes did and Olli can sometimes do when they're going well.

Reality is they were playing a decent style on the last road trip that involved packing it in/F's back with layers and a couple speedsters with McCann and A.Johnson to go with Rust to go on the forecheck.

Now you have McCann, A.Johnson out, F's cheating up ice, Sully's favorite pluggers plugging away(ZAR, Wilson).
It's simply a recipe thats not gonna lead anywhere like the players and recipe was working for them on the last road trip(Sully quote at the end of that trip in the dressing room "i feel we're building something here.".)

I think you chip against the first layer and that 2nd layer is already chasing to get to pucks first.

The Pens need to torpedo and break the trap but....by this team is made to chip and chase. They dont have those transitional player that can skate and control the play coming up ice and play heavy hockey.

I'm not sure how they win this series because they're not well rounded enough to adjust. Its going to have to be star status to the rescue again and most of the times that's not enough.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Sounds like I should be glad I had to work late last night.

Look on the bright side, at least the Pens had a lead in this game...for a few minutes.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I think you chip against the first layer and that 2nd layer is already chasing to get to pucks first.

The Pens need to torpedo and break the trap but....by this team is made to chip and chase. They dont have those transitional player that can skate and control the play coming up ice and play heavy hockey.

I'm not sure how they win this series because they're not well rounded enough to adjust. Its going to have to be star status to the rescue again and most of the times that's not enough.

Thing is tho when they were playing with lesser D(Trotman etc., the point where Sully made that statement to them i said above) they were moving north much quicker and the F's were always back giving them layers cuz they knew with no Tanger it was needed with speedy and/or smart players like McCann, Rust, A.Johnson, Blueger all playing.

My attempt at getting back into this is:

Jake-Sid-Simon
(since they seem to not want anything to do with Sid-Horny atm)

McCann-G-Horny/Phil
(pray McCann can go again)

Rust-Bjugs-Horny/Phil
Johnson-Cullen/Blueger-Cullen/Blueger
(If Rust is still meh bump a Blueger or Johnson up)

Think it's imperative to get the kind of speed they had in the lineup the last road trip. If McCann can't go slide the Rust/Blueger or Johnson thing up and 1 of Wilson/ZAR go on the 4th line.

Other than that, make the obvious D:

Dumo-Tang
MP-Guds
x-Schultz

Show them some of the last road trip clips mixed in with the crappy stuff on the Island to show the difference...and send them on their way and pray.

 

[treeni12]

I really hope Crosby and Malkin has gas in the tank for couple of big PO's push.

 

[JTG]

If the club didn't hate the guy for whatever reason, we could have Riikola playing in that spot. Or move Pettersson up with Schultz and play Riikola in a limited third pairing with Gudbranson.

At least Riikola can move the puck and doesn't skate like he's stuck in gum.

I wouldn't have taken Riikola out of the lineup. I think there is way more there with him than with Johnson or Maatta. You can at least work on his flaws. He's a smart defenseman who can skate and play physical.

What you are saying is semantically and medically equal to the term “idiot”. That’s what I call him all the time. And somehow I get blamed of “trolling” for that.

And same people who few days ago blasted me for saying that Crosby often disappears in playoffs, now unanimously say he is a no show in this series so far.

Weird how people eventually come to the same conclusions I’m beating to death all the time, and yet fail to give me credit that I was indeed right once in a while.

Why do you need approval? You have people here who believe faceoff wins don't matter and trust a CORSI more than watching a game.

 

[JTG]

I don't think I've ever seen a 4th line give a 1st line so many fits than I have in this series.

 

[JTG]

And this is just going forward for next season - Bjugstad can fill in as a center, but he is probably a winger. For 6'6 he is an awful faceoff man. Phil needs played with Geno or he needs to be traded. This defense needs to get itself sorted out. I think we have most of the parts here. The 2LD needs worked out. McCann should be moved up with Sid and Guentzel. We need a 3C.

A lot of tinkering left for JR.

 

[2wayPlay]

This team has played inconsistent all season and although I wanted the Isles because of their lack of scoring, perhaps they are a bad matchup. They clog the neutral zone play a defensive game and that can frustrate an inconsistent team like the Pens, it has in the past as well. I picked the Isles in 6 so I’m certainly not shocked about getting beat. What I am surprised about is how truly awful this team looks. There’s not enough moves or options for JR to make in order to fix this team. Everyone keeps pointing to Chicago and they might be right. We could be watching the crumbling of our semi dynasty before our eyes. Father Time is the only undefeated champion, he gets us all I suppose.

 

[LOGiK]

So far the penguins have 3 forwards with points and 4 defensemen with points through 2 games. yuck.

Also, could it really happen? Could the penguins get swept and Sidney be held pointless?

 

[Guins71]

This team never had it this year, not once. If you want to be skilled and fast, be that. If you want to have a few stars and grind out it, get a bigger roster around your stars. If you want to go all skill... well good luck with that.

But they are average speed, very soft, stars are on the wrong side of 30 and can't go Superman any longer. Pick an identity for the couple of 30 something stars you keep and commit to it.

And screw Sully. Reaves would have been huge this series. Good thing he ran him out of town and replaces him with WILSON. Beantown Meathead

Reeves was and is worthless. That trade was idiotic. You know who would be good this series Oscar Sundqvist

 

[Shrimper]

I'd take Cullen out and put Johnson in.

Change the first line.

Take our chances ffs

 

[WayneSid9987]

I don't think I've ever seen a 4th line give a 1st line so many fits than I have in this series.

To try and explain i look at:

-the way Sid's played since he got hit in the noggin' a couple times vs PHI at home
-the idiotic decision to reunite Jake-Sid-Rust to start the PO's
-the general lack of structure/unpreparedness with cheating up ice carrying the puck into 4 opponents at the OZ blue line
-the crap D JR has assembled to play behind them/the wonkiness of Dumo-Letang now vs pre outdoor game and further back
-they can feast on the weak D on the forecheck and trap it up Trotz style and it's giving or was giving Jake-Sid-Rust fits. It was better with Jake-Sid-Simon tho

Really just a mess and the reason the addition of Simon looked better is they were getting thru the NZ/blue line easier even with possession sometimes and Simon-Jake-Sid were doing better work disrupting the breakout.

Don't think Sid's looked 100% right since that PHI game tho.

 

[Terrapin]

Sid, Geno, and Letang have all seemed to lost a step. They're still elite, but not able to consistently dominate. Seriously, 4 years ago Sid would be salivating playing against a teams 4th line. Letang's always been a halfwit, but he could overcome his idiocy a lot of times due to his talent. When's the last time Geno's looked like the best player on the ice, let alone in the world?

This isn't any of their fault. It happens to everyone. What is their fault is they haven't altered their games at all. Letang and Geno still make the same stupid mistakes they've made years ago, only now they can't recover. They all still refuse to shoot the puck on the PP. And JR and Sully haven't adjusted their personnel and lineup to give them the help they need.

I don't know what the answer is, but you can't have 1/3 of your team salary be a negative on the ice. Maybe JR needs to surround them with better players. Maybe instead of obsessing over 3 scoring lines, worry about having 1 or 2 lines dominate lines.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Sid, Geno, and Letang have all seemed to lost a step. They're still elite, but not able to consistently dominate. Seriously, 4 years ago Sid would be salivating playing against a teams 4th line. Letang's always been a halfwit, but he could overcome his idiocy a lot of times due to his talent. When's the last time Geno's looked like the best player on the ice, let alone in the world?

This isn't any of their fault. It happens to everyone. What is their fault is they haven't altered their games at all. Letang and Geno still make the same stupid mistakes they've made years ago, only now they can't recover. They all still refuse to shoot the puck on the PP. And JR and Sully haven't adjusted their personnel and lineup to give them the help they need.

I don't know what the answer is, but you can't have 1/3 of your team salary be a negative on the ice. Maybe JR needs to surround them with better players. Maybe instead of obsessing over 3 scoring lines, worry about having 1 or 2 lines dominate lines.

For me the biggest issue is this crappy/very expensive D.
And right behind it is the downgrade in overall speed with skill up front.
This team even looked ok up front without Geno BUT the difference is they had McCann, Rust, A.Johnson and had trust building in a smart player like Blueger.

Up front next season, i believe they'd be...sorta fine...if they dumped Wilson and made ZAR the #13.
Not perfect but...sorta fine/ok.

They NEED to fix this D in a big way.
And at this point with what i'm seeing now/what has happened to him, you are basically hoping Letang can stay healthy/smart enough too for the time we'll need him in this window.
OR do you take the gamble of blowing it all up back there.
It's a huge issue moving forward.

I guess i'd just start looking at adding any really good puck moving/speed with smarts i can and sacrificing who/whatever i have to outside of the obvious 4 or 5 players who are untouchable going into this summer(Sid/G/Jake/McCann/Murr).

 

[2wayPlay]

THIS. This, this, this.

Just goes to show you how bad the Islanders are. We are playing our worst hockey of the season, which is saying a lot, and they still barely win. Getting swept by a team with such little talent as NYI will be the most embarrassing feat of the Penguins run.

 

[2wayPlay]

Said almost the exact same thing in my series prediction. I wouldn't be surprised with any outcome of this series.

Well that’s really taking a leap in one direction!

 

[2wayPlay]

I don’t like how Sully went back on the Maata decision so quickly, not saying Maata wasn’t awful game 1 but JJ is always awful so what was the point? It just seemed to early and desperate a confident coach sticks to his guns longer than that. This team has no confidence and neither does it’s coach. Maybe it’s because they just stink IDK

 

[The Old Master]

Embarrassing. Geno is 32 and still can’t avoid the after whistle bull****. Guy’s gotta have an IQ of 78.

when you fall from being able to put a team on your back and simply being able to will them a win, to what he is now you tend to act that way. imo

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sid, Geno, and Letang have all seemed to lost a step. They're still elite, but not able to consistently dominate. Seriously, 4 years ago Sid would be salivating playing against a teams 4th line. Letang's always been a halfwit, but he could overcome his idiocy a lot of times due to his talent. When's the last time Geno's looked like the best player on the ice, let alone in the world?

This isn't any of their fault. It happens to everyone. What is their fault is they haven't altered their games at all. Letang and Geno still make the same stupid mistakes they've made years ago, only now they can't recover. They all still refuse to shoot the puck on the PP. And JR and Sully haven't adjusted their personnel and lineup to give them the help they need.

I don't know what the answer is, but you can't have 1/3 of your team salary be a negative on the ice. Maybe JR needs to surround them with better players. Maybe instead of obsessing over 3 scoring lines, worry about having 1 or 2 lines dominate lines.

It’s an easy excuse to say these guys have lost a step, but Crosby had his first 100 point season in five years and was playing some of the best hockey of his career this season as well. Letang was also having a Norris season until his injury, but that’s been the story of his career so...

Malkin is the only guy who has looked slower and struggled this season. The same thing is happening to TB, but we can’t use an excuse like 30! for Hedman, Point, Kuch and Stamkos.

Boston did the whole layers thing to them in ‘13 and it was mostly the same result. Detroit also stifled them in a similar manner, but systematically it was a little different.

The Pens finally solved Detroit because they got it through their thick heads you have to dump the puck and get to work almost every shift.

Sometimes guys finally get it... like going down 2-0 agt Det in 09.... other times they don’t like agt Boston in 13. It’s never been a big secret how you have to beat layers hockey, but it’s lots and lots of hard work, patience, and not much fun.

Unfortunately the guy who looks done is Hornqvist and he’s the exact kind of guy they need in a series like this... he really needs to show up soon.