Post-Game Talk: Islanders 3, Penguins 1 - Not With a Bang, Not Even a Whimper

[Andy99]

Naw. Isles barely won 2 at home vs the worst playing team/D in the PO's atm.
They ain't beating anyone in the 2nd rd and neither are we.

Right, because we won’t be there...

 

[House of tpo]

Pens need to win at home to get back into the series, it is that simple.

 

[Andy99]

Sully should take a lesson from Torts...turn the table on the Isles, gets pucks deep, make them play 200 feet and hopefully we’ll be the team getting TOs on the blue line...they barely have to move to get nice juicy TOs from us and are playing a lot on half the ice...

 

[mpp9]

Maatta and JJ gone in the offseason for Gardiner or Krug in free agency would be money. Win or lose this year, they need to address this team's severe lack of puck moving talent beyond Letang.

Malkin's quote about the ice doesn't look good, but I agree that shitty ice combined with frustrating style the Isles play is making things difficult for them. Game 3 is obviously a must win. Will be very telling where this team is at.

I'm not too engaged this year. They're obviously not the same team as the Cup years. Would be an overachievement to win it all. I'm cool if they're out fast and are forced to address the blue line and move on from some vets.

Kessel obviously ain't washed up yet, but I think I'd still move on from him if a sensible deal is there to get younger and shed some cap to address the blue line and/or find a more complementary player for 71 who just had his worst season maybe of his career. Dude's gonna need some help as he ages.

And I love Horny, but it's getting close to danger territory with him. Concussions have f***ed him up. I'd give it another year to see if it's just a temporary thing, but he's just not dangerous anymore around the net. His fit at ES wasn't a big issue for me because he plays the same way no matter what. But if he can't finish from in tight anymore, he gotta go.

 

[Pens x]

I was ridiculed when I said Trotz would easily out coach Sully....

 

[House of tpo]

What happened to the Sid and Geno that were able to steal games?

unfortunately that's over

 

[WayneSid9987]

Right, because we won’t be there...

Still really a toss up for who wins this series.
As bad as they've played they were an OT goal and a better 3rd/ending of game 2 from being up 2-0.

Probably in a notch better spot than the Tampa's and WPG's who have to go win on the road down 0-2 against better teams than the Isles, imo.

If they can get their act together quickly, they can take the isles in 4 of 5.
Just not confident they'll get their act together tho with what i'm seeing on the ice after adjusting after G1.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

On the other hand, a first round loss could force JR to make the big changes I think they need to be legit contenders again. Ie this defense is just a god awful ****ty mess and I’ve been wishing JR would have made it more skilled and mobile for a couple years now...

My fear is, based on the moves JR has made, that he doesn't even see the issue with the defense. I'm 100% with you on the more skilled and mobile part, but that seems to be the exact opposite of what JR seems to think it needs.

Which is why I'm not even convinced a first round loss will change much if the people in charge don't realize what needs fixing.

 

[WayneSid9987]

My fear is, based on the moves JR has made, that he doesn't even see the issue with the defense. I'm 100% with you on the more skilled and mobile part, but that seems to be the exact opposite of what JR seems to think it needs.

Which is why I'm not even convinced a first round loss will change much if the people in charge don't realize what needs fixing.

I mean, he can only go upward with D changes.
He went out and got the 2 worst D in the league statisically. Heh.
Moving into the summer, i think MP and Guds are fine but you can get a helluva lot better for Olli and JJ's over 7.25M.
Or even bigger picture, you should be getting WAY more than the total cost of all the D.

ETA: Boil it way down past the end of Schultz's contract next year and with the way Tanger is trending with injuries/his play and:

Dumo - Go with one of Schultz/Tanger
x-Fix
The-Rest

If you wanna get back to contender status in this window.

ETA: ^More SCap related stuff so to bring it back these guys need to find a game that works quickly and if they do they got a shot at taking 4 of 5 from these Isles.

 

[House of tpo]

2-0 is the most dangerous lead in hockey, folks. The Pens have them right where they want them.

i want what your smoking

 

[mpp9]

My fear is, based on the moves JR has made, that he doesn't even see the issue with the defense. I'm 100% with you on the more skilled and mobile part, but that seems to be the exact opposite of what JR seems to think it needs.

Which is why I'm not even convinced a first round loss will change much if the people in charge don't realize what needs fixing.

He sees it. He went after Montour and McDonagh. Problem is it wasn't a high enough priority for him. A quick postseason may change that.

 

[House of tpo]

Reminds me of when the Blackhawks got ****-spanked by the Predators in 4 games to signal they were no longer a top team.

great point

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We have 0 depth. At all. Half these guys are AHL Sully specials and it shows.

Honestly, I think we're seeing how little skill we have if our big guns aren't all firing at the same time. The "depth" guys simply don't have the kind of skill that other top teams have to take some of the heat off when one or more of the big boys is slumping.

I also think this is why all those folks who think trading Kessel and bringing in another "complimentary" type will solve things. No, we lack high end skill. Removing one of our only high end skill and bringing in another Bryan Rust-type would see us look even worse.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He sees it. He went after Montour and McDonagh. Problem is it wasn't a high enough priority for him. A quick postseason may change that.

His acquisitions on defense this year were Pettersson (good defensively, but not exactly that great at moving the puck or joining the attack), Gudbranson and Johnson.

"Going after" Montour and McDonagh aren't the same as prioritizing landing them. I'm sure he'd "go after" Erik Karlsson if he could get him on cheap terms. But it doesn't mean he sees that as an absolute need that he'd move heaven and earth to accomplish.

 

[mpp9]

His acquisitions on defense this year were Pettersson (good defensively, but not exactly that great at moving the puck or joining the attack), Gudbranson and Johnson.

"Going after" Montour and McDonagh aren't the same as prioritizing landing them. I'm sure he'd "go after" Erik Karlsson if he could get him on cheap terms. But it doesn't mean he sees that as an absolute need that he'd move heaven and earth to accomplish.

Not seeing the problem and not pulling the trigger aren't the same things either.

He wouldn't go after those players if he didn't see a hole to fill. But obviously he felt the price wasn't worth it and/or it wasn't a dire need. He's always been a guy with a hodge podge defensive group and a lot of forward depth.

Problem is, the injuries this year forced us to acquire a body on defense and not even really address the 2nd line. No McCann tonight and our depth hurts. That shouldn't happen if you have a truly deep forward group.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If things continue, this series might be up there with the Flyers series. Yes, I went there.

We could actually score goals in that series. So if this continues, I'd say it's closer to the Bruins' sweep where we scored like 2 goals all series. That's how lost and lethargic the team looks most of the series.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

The roster for the most part is playing to its ability. I mean the effort is there you can see it and if you deny the effort isn’t there then you are blind. But this team is going to need some off season retooling, of whom I won’t pine upon. But I am not giving up on the group yet. We still have to come home, but if they do drop a game with the back to back in Pittsburgh it is most likely to tall of a hill to ice skate up for this current roster.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

We could actually score goals in that series. So if this continues, I'd say it's closer to the Bruins' sweep where we scored like 2 goals all series. That's how lost and lethargic the team looks most of the series.

The series this more reminds me of is Halak with Montreal.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The series this more reminds me of is Halak with Montreal.

We out-chanced Montreal that series. Halak just stood on his head.

This time, while Lehner's been good, I don't think he's stole games we should have won. Tonight, for example, I don't know if we even had any sustained pressure where if it weren't for him, we'd have scored 4 or 5 goals.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

As for the JJ versus Maatta debate; we're just screwed either way. JJ is brainless, but Maatta may as well be playing hockey in running shoes with how well he moves around the ice. It really is a situation where we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. The aggressive nature and urgency of the Isles will eat both of them alive.

If the club didn't hate the guy for whatever reason, we could have Riikola playing in that spot. Or move Pettersson up with Schultz and play Riikola in a limited third pairing with Gudbranson.

At least Riikola can move the puck and doesn't skate like he's stuck in gum.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The elephant in the room is that this team has lived and died by Sid and Jake all year. Geno's had serious injury and stretches of awful play throughout the season. Kessel's been awful for almost the entirety of a calendar year. This team's been Sid and Jake from October onward.

They're not playing well now, and to be honest, nothing else matters nearly as much. If Sid and Jake don't wake up, we get swept. Simple as that. Geno ain't saving us. Kessel ain't saving us. Murray ain't saving us. Letang ain't saving us. We're toast.

Just goes to show how little offensive depth we have up front. We have a bunch of guys who can be third wheels or bottom sixers, but the drop off from our skilled guys to our complimentary players is more drastic, IMO, than any of the teams who're contending for the Cup.

Sid, Geno, Kessel, Jake. That's basically our top six skill. Everyone else ranges from "can fill a third wheel spot if the elite center is playing well" to "he shouldn't be playing above line 3. So when one or more of those 4 isn't playing well, we look like a team with almost no skill -- because that's what we are.

 

[mpp9]

Just goes to show how little offensive depth we have up front. We have a bunch of guys who can be third wheels or bottom sixers, but the drop off from our skilled guys to our complimentary players is more drastic, IMO, than any of the teams who're contending for the Cup.

Sid, Geno, Kessel, Jake. That's basically our top six skill. Everyone else ranges from "can fill a third wheel spot if the elite center is playing well" to "he shouldn't be playing above line 3. So when one or more of those 4 isn't playing well, we look like a team with almost no skill -- because that's what we are.

Yeah, but like no other team has a group of top end talent 1-4 of that caliber.

That's the tradeoff.

Agree though that just one more winger would have done wonders for our depth this year. Would have given Malkin more to work with while having him and Kessel on different lines. And as a result, less pressure on Sid and Jake to produce during a dry spell.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah, but like no other team has a group of top end talent 1-4 of that caliber.

That's the tradeoff.

Agree though that just one more winger would have done wonders for our depth this year. Would have given Malkin more to work with while having him and Kessel on different lines. And as a result, less pressure on Sid and Jake to produce during a dry spell.

As Sid and Geno get older, I don't think the gap is there anymore for them to be the competitive advantage they were to offset the dramatic drop in talent after those 4. And I think it's just going to get worse as they continue to age, and the rest of the forward depth is full of pluggers and muckers with limited skill to pick up the slack.

It's just painful to watch this team try and generate offense if any of those four aren't on their game.

 

[Angrrus]

I really don't know what to say. This team, on paper, is a very good team, and should beat this opponent. For whatever reason, they just aren't that good. I just can't fathom how they're not better. The effort is simply unacceptable. I honestly have no clue, so it's pointless for me to even speculate why.

Motivation. Lack thereof.

And it’s on the “star” “leadership” core. Half the roster already new. They are not the problem. The guys who remain from 2 cup runs - 87,71,81,58,4,17,72,8 - are undermotivated, and affect the room in a big way.

 

[Turin]

This season IS super reminiscent of Chicago 2017 though. So... watch for that, management. I don’t think it’s coaching either, just like it wasn’t for Chicago.