Sportsnet: Islanders ‘likely to offer’ 8-year deal to John Tavares

[ZINFINITY16]

your posts often make me giggle

why? in what categories is JT levels above Marner or Willy?

Also, I wouldn't sign Tavares to anything more than 8m AAV. Even that I would be a bit hesitant. 7.5 would be great

 

[ZINFINITY16]

Yes, but Marner and Nylander are playing with talent...JT isn't

Not sure if that's a fair point. Willy played all year with a winger who failed to put up 30 points... And JVR isn't levels better than Ladd.

Plus why pay a guy 10million who can't even produce more than 66 points on his own? Crosby and Matthews and McDavid and Malkin and Backstrom all elevate their linemates and drive scoring on their own. if Tavares can't he doesn't deserve that kind of money

 

[steveat]

If you have blinders on and all you look at are this year's points, I can understand your argument about paying JT 10 mill.

What you don't seem to realize is that JT has taken a home town discount since he started...so he's been underpaid for a long time. This 10 mill deal is just pay back for working hard and showing that he is worth the money. Plus inflation will make it less of an issue down the road.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Pay him or trade him. After he gave them a discount before, they have to overpay a bit this time around. He's not worth that cap hit, but he is the Islanders. He's the face of that franchise.

 

[steveat]

Not sure if that's a fair point. Willy played all year with a winger who failed to put up 30 points... And JVR isn't levels better than Ladd.

Plus why pay a guy 10million who can't even produce more than 66 points on his own? Crosby and Matthews and McDavid and Malkin and Backstrom all elevate their linemates and drive scoring on their own. if Tavares can't he doesn't deserve that kind of money

This year he will get over 80..I say this because our last coach was defence first and Weight is all about offence (as you can tell by comparing first half points VS second half).

I do agree with you that the difference between ladd and jvr is not much, but the first half of the season..he was awful...I mean REALLY BAD. In hindsight, I think it was more building chemistry than him being bad.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes, but Marner and Nylander are playing with talent...JT isn't

Tavares played with a guy who scored 34 goals this season, good for 10th overall in the entire league.

I get that he doesn't exactly play with all-stars, but both his wingers ended up with 50+ points this year. In this day and age, that's not bad production.

 

[steveat]

Tavares played with a guy who scored 34 goals this season, good for 10th overall in the entire league.

I get that he doesn't exactly play with all-stars, but both his wingers ended up with 50+ points this year. In this day and age, that's not bad production.

Well, top 3 wingers should produce more than that. He's never played with anyone above average (except Vanek and holy hell they were good together).

 

[ZINFINITY16]

If you have blinders on and all you look at are this year's points, I can understand your argument about paying JT 10 mill.

What you don't seem to realize is that JT has taken a home town discount since he started...so he's been underpaid for a long time. This 10 mill deal is just pay back for working hard and showing that he is worth the money. Plus inflation will make it less of an issue down the road.

people said the same thing with Seabrook and seem to be regretting that contract already. Maybe it's just me but you should pay a guy for the entirety of the yesrs of the contract. Not past ones or only the first couple

 

[Strait2thecup]

Not sure if that's a fair point. Willy played all year with a winger who failed to put up 30 points... And JVR isn't levels better than Ladd.

Plus why pay a guy 10million who can't even produce more than 66 points on his own? Crosby and Matthews and McDavid and Malkin and Backstrom all elevate their linemates and drive scoring on their own. if Tavares can't he doesn't deserve that kind of money

Wow nylander played with a winger who failed to put up 30 points... what about that other guy he played with? When Willy and marner make Matt moulson have 35 goals, PA parenteau score 65 points, brad Boyes score at a 60 point pace, josh Bailey have a 56 point season etc, and finish top 3 in MVP voting (twice) , come within 1 point of a scoring title you get back to me. For now I'll continue to laugh. If you think marner and nylander are on Tavares level I'm not gonna debate with you bc your goggles are glued to your face

Go check the point totals of players listed here without Tavares. Saying he doesn't elevate linemates is an embarrassing comment on your part man.... Get a clue

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well, top 3 wingers should produce more than that. He's never played with anyone above average (except Vanek and holy hell they were good together).

But your post was in comparison to what Marner and Nylander played with. Marner, in particular, played with Bozak and JVR. Neither guy is much more productive than Tavares' wingers were last year.

I'm not saying the Isles couldn't do with bringing in a bit more talent to surround Tavares with, but I think you're finding excuses for Tavares if you're knocking Lee and Bailey. Lee, in particular, put up goal totals that only 9 other players in the entire NHL were able to match or surpass.

 

[steveat]

people said the same thing with Seabrook and seem to be regretting that contract already. Maybe it's just me but you should pay a guy for the entirety of the yesrs of the contract. Not past ones or only the first couple

I agree..this isn't an Islander thing...it's a league-wide thing. Teams get players to accept less for the promise that ....if you play well ...we will pay you back in kind with your next contract. EVERY team is guilty of this.

I see why teams are doing this..I am not a fan of it. I think one of the main things that it went this was is because the players wanted longer contracts. I remember the days where 5 years was a LONG time for a contract. All this is due to the selfish players....well, they want to be "taken care of"..weird that in this day of "go" capitalism...all businesses seem to run like socialists.

Bring back a 5 year MAX contract length and you will see people get paid what they're owed in every contract.

 

[Juxtaposer]

LOL you must be fun at parties. What part is arrogant or idiotic? You're the dumb one....
Marner and Nylander both had 5 less points than Tavares this year. While being over 5 years younger, so yes it's fair to assume they're going to be just as good as Tavares.

Alex Wennberg only scored 7 points less than Tavares while being 4 years younger, I guess it's fair to assume that he'll be just as good as Tavares. Laine and Ehlers both scored even more than Marner and Nylander, so I guess it's fair to assume they'll both be better than Tavares. Eric Staal scored one less point than Tavares, so I guess it's fair to assume that he's just as good as Staal. In fact, JVR only scored 4 less points than Tavares, so I guess it's fair to assume that he's just as good as Tavares. Marcus Johansson only scored 8 points less than Tavares, so I guess we should assume that he's almost as good as Tavares.

Or maybe points aren't a great way to measure offensive ability. Just a thought.

Maybe Nylander and Marner played on a team whose system was pure offense all the time. Maybe they both played with other 60+ point players attached to their hips all season. Maybe they had an actual real coach instead of Capuano and an interim coach. Maybe you should realize that this is Tavares' worst season since he was a rookie and not compare your rookies to it. Just a thought.

I'm fun at all parties not located in Toronto, because in Toronto saying anything negative about Marner is an imprisonable offense.

 

[steveat]

But your post was in comparison to what Marner and Nylander played with. Marner, in particular, played with Bozak and JVR. Neither guy is much more productive than Tavares' wingers were last year.

I'm not saying the Isles couldn't do with bringing in a bit more talent to surround Tavares with, but I think you're finding excuses for Tavares if you're knocking Lee and Bailey. Lee, in particular, put up goal totals that only 9 other players in the entire NHL were able to match or surpass.

Lee has had consistency issues, but he isn't who I was complaining about...He's just average slow (skating)

Bailey has always been inconsistent and still is and will never be a true top 3.

Ok, to clarify..JT hasn't played with garbage...just average players (I think give Lee another year and he should be prime top 3 - He's like a better Moulson [and Moulson was never a top 3 talent and never will be, but still scored 30+/year])..so with average type players..he gets about 65-70 points...which sounds about right.

Maybe I am trying to justify why JT isn't scoring at a higher pitch and I think it's from the fact that when he does play with better players, it's like day and night when you see him play with Bails and Lee vs better players. There' no...well, he's a bit better...no..MUCH better

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Lee has had consistency issues, but he isn't who I was complaining about...He's just average slow (skating)

Bailey has always been inconsistent and still is and will never be a true top 3.

Ok, to clarify..JT hasn't played with garbage...just average players (I think give Lee another year and he should be prime top 3 - He's like a better Moulson [and Moulson was never a top 3 talent and never will be, but still scored 30+/year])..so with average type players..he gets about 65-70 points...which sounds about right.

Maybe I am trying to justify why JT isn't scoring at a higher pitch and I think it's from the fact that when he does play with better players, it's like day and night when you see him play with Bails and Lee vs better players. There' no...well, he's a bit better...no..MUCH better

Who, exactly, do you think the Isles can reasonably acquire that's an upgrade on Lee and Bailey?

If Tavares signs the reported deal of $10 million per year, that's going to mean having to cut costs elsewhere. Having two wingers he clicks with, even if neither is an "all-star", goes a long way toward the Isles being able to strengthen the rest of their lineup, instead of allocating $30 million on Tavare's line to play him with two superstars.

And on a bit of a side note: I think you overestimate how much great wingers will impact a player's totals over simply good wingers. You don't jump from 65-70 points to over 90 points just because you go from Anders Lee to Taylor Hall.

 

[Tripod]

Tavares, Kopitar and Toews just aren't worth $10 million AAV

But in NYI case, if they don't sign him, they lose their captain and best player making them a much worse team. And JT has given the NYI a discount for many years, so them "rewarding" him by overpaying him to offset that certainly is good for the relationship.

I would rather my team overpay my teams best players as opposed to overpaying average players which happens all the time.

 

[Kamiccolo]

But in NYI case, if they don't sign him, they lose their captain and best player making them a much worse team. And JT has given the NYI a discount for many years, so them "rewarding" him by overpaying him to offset that certainly is good for the relationship.

I would rather my team overpay my teams best players as opposed to overpaying average players which happens all the time.

Then you get Kessel and Phaneuf syndrome where fans expect too much for players who can't reach that level and the fans run them out of town.

 

[MessierII]

Honestly the smarter move would be to trade him and rebuild. Sucks but that's just not worth it. Sucks worse that islanders can't afford to start a new rebuild.

 

[Knave]

Ah Leafs fans. Everywhere with their "OUR ROOKIES WILL KEEP THIS PRODUCTION UP AND ONLY IMPROVE".

Tavares is better. I wouldn't trade him for Marner AND Nylander. No GM would.

 

[MessierII]

Ah Leafs fans. Everywhere with their "OUR ROOKIES WILL KEEP THIS PRODUCTION UP AND ONLY IMPROVE".

Tavares is better. I wouldn't trade him for Marner AND Nylander. No GM would.

You serious? I would in a second.

 

[SETHROLLINS]

If I'm the Islanders I try hard to push the same deal that Stamkos got maybe even bump it up to $9M per. If the Islanders can't re-sign him during the summer I trade him before camp starts. You can't risk injury, not being able to trade him and losing him for nothing next July.

 

[BLONG7]

If I'm the Islanders I try hard to push the same deal that Stamkos got maybe even bump it up to $9M per. If the Islanders can't re-sign him during the summer I trade him before camp starts. You can't risk injury, not being able to trade him and losing him for nothing next July.

The next 6 weeks, kind of makes this a case of urgency...

 

[Strait2thecup]

Then you get Kessel and Phaneuf syndrome where fans expect too much for players who can't reach that level and the fans run them out of town.

That only happens in Toronto.

 

[BLONG7]

Am I the only Leafs fan who doesn't want Tavares? We've got a lot of young studs who are going to require huge raises. I pass on Tavares.

Things are that good in TO these days eh...if any of the kids regress next year, or you have some injuries unlike this year, the Leafs wont be in the playoffs...the tune sure will be different then...

 

[CupHolders]

Who, exactly, do you think the Isles can reasonably acquire that's an upgrade on Lee and Bailey?

If Tavares signs the reported deal of $10 million per year, that's going to mean having to cut costs elsewhere. Having two wingers he clicks with, even if neither is an "all-star", goes a long way toward the Isles being able to strengthen the rest of their lineup, instead of allocating $30 million on Tavare's line to play him with two superstars.

And on a bit of a side note: I think you overestimate how much great wingers will impact a player's totals over simply good wingers. You don't jump from 65-70 points to over 90 points just because you go from Anders Lee to Taylor Hall.

Honestly, I think a bad PP is what has impacted his production. Last two years he has under 20ppp. Only during the lockout season has he scored less on the PP. Improving the PP will improve this team's record and Tavares points. That will not necessarily require a winger per se.

 

[SETHROLLINS]

The next 6 weeks, kind of makes this a case of urgency...

They can trade him in August. Just doesn't make sense for him to be at camp without a long term deal.