SuperScript29
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- Nov 17, 2017
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The difference being Kariya at least for a while carried the true superstar and next big thing aura.
So we go by auras now?
The difference being Kariya at least for a while carried the true superstar and next big thing aura.
So we go by auras now?
Reputation goes a long way. Kariya was considered a top 5ish forward for 5 years. He was probably a little overrated due to Canada's lack of high end forwards entering the league at the time, but that reputation sticks.
Though I think Zetterberg benefits similarly as his reputation in the playoffs and his peak ability tended to push him higher in player rankings in years where he wasn't as good in the regular season.
The HoF isn't just for great offense. There's an entire other half of the game that teams have to play, and Gainey was elite-level at that part of it so much that he spent much of his ice time having to play against the league's best.I don't think Gainey should be in.
But at least his peak was in a different era that was harder to compare with the next-crop.
I'd put him above Hossa, and I think Hossa is going in within a couple years of being eligible.He's in the Elias and Hossa tier.
Sure.The HoF isn't just for great offense. There's an entire other half of the game that teams have to play, and Gainey was elite-level at that part of it so much that he spent much of his ice time having to play against the league's best.
Are people seriously debating this? He was a fantastic player from 05-14, was good his last 4 seasons and has the hardware as well. He is getting in 100%.
Triple gold club (WC gold, Olympics gold and Stanley Cup)
Conn Smythe 07/08 playoffs.
Most points and goals in the playoffs in 2007/2008 and scored the clinching goal in the finals.
Reg season:1082 games-960 points
Playoffs: 137 games-120 points
5 time top 10 in Selke voting, two time top 4.
If people think Marleau is getting in and Zetterberg isnt i dont know what to say....
...Okay, I'm a Red Wing fan and I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel like there was this one other guy...
interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?
1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies
do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?
kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.
Kopitar is a lock and Zetterberg i would also think is a lock. Both have been absolute elite in their primes and have the hardware.interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?
1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies
do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?
kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.
If reputation is what helped Kariya get in, I don't think Zetterberg needs to worry much then. At his peak he was among the best two-way forwards in the league, amazing in the playoffs, a team captain, and he actually has some hardware and offensive numbers to go along with it. I will be shocked if he won't get in.
The difference being Kariya at least for a while carried the true superstar and next big thing aura.
Are people seriously debating this? He was a fantastic player from 05-14, was good his last 4 seasons and has the hardware as well. He is getting in 100%.
Triple gold club (WC gold, Olympics gold and Stanley Cup)
Conn Smythe 07/08 playoffs.
Most points and goals in the playoffs in 2007/2008 and scored the clinching goal in the finals.
Reg season:1082 games-960 points
Playoffs: 137 games-120 points
5 time top 10 in Selke voting, two time top 4.
If people think Marleau is getting in and Zetterberg isnt i dont know what to say....
Lehtinen actually has a case IMO. 3 Selkes, a Stanley Cup, 875 and he went to the Olympic Games FIVE times and won four medals.Sure.
Do you think John Madden deserves to be in the Hall?
If a defensive forward who brings pedestrian levels of offense is inducted into the Hall of Fame, for being elite defensively, then you're opening the door for letting in a plethora of other defensive forwards in as well. Especially the ones who were blessed to play on stacked teams with superior offensive players.
John Madden, Mike Peca, Kris Draper, Jere Lehtinen, Guy Carobonneau, Craig Ramsay, Dirk Graham, Ryan Kesler, Craig McTavish.
Sorry man, I just don't see why Gainey should be in while a lot of other guys I listed before have similar resumes aren't in the Hall (nor should they be).
I get it that Gainey played for the illustrious dynasty era Habs, and that comes with a lot of mystique, but several of those other guys were instrumental in winning multiple cups as well, and they're not in the conversation for the Hall either (nor should they be)..
Gainey was the defensive specialist on a team that had Guy Lafleur, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Larry Robinson, and was backstopped by Ken Dryden.
Sorry, but I can't help but view him as the Kris Draper / John Madden of his era.
When you find a number of elite players talking about how John Madden was so damn good defensively and made things so much more difficult for them when he was on the ice, get back to me. When you find Madden's first vote for end-of-season NHL All-Star, let me know as wellSure.
Do you think John Madden deserves to be in the Hall?
Again, the game of hockey is not all about offense. I didn't realize the Hockey Hall of Fame was only for offensive players and a handful of goalies, everyone else stay the hell out! If someone was truly outstanding on the defensive side of the game, why not find a spot for them?If a defensive forward who brings pedestrian levels of offense is inducted into the Hall of Fame, for being elite defensively, then you're opening the door for letting in a plethora of other defensive forwards in as well. Especially the ones who were blessed to play on stacked teams with superior offensive players.
I've got bad news for you: Carbonneau should probably be in there and probably goes in down the road after the current backlog and older guys just retiring or about to retire get worked through. Lehtinen may well find his way in as well, especially after you consider his play in international tournaments. If Kesler's body hadn't given out, he'd probably be in the discussion too. [And I'm talking starting in 2012, not just recently.] Ramsay was [and still is] underappreciated, mainly because he played on Buffalo teams that were never top-tier and never went far. Peca is borderline.John Madden, Mike Peca, Kris Draper, Jere Lehtinen, Guy Carobonneau, Craig Ramsay, Dirk Graham, Ryan Kesler, Craig McTavish.
Start naming them and how they were instrumental, I'll tell you why they're not in.Sorry man, I just don't see why Gainey should be in while a lot of other guys I listed before have similar resumes aren't in the Hall (nor should they be).
I get it that Gainey played for the illustrious dynasty era Habs, and that comes with a lot of mystique, but several of those other guys were instrumental in winning multiple cups as well, and they're not in the conversation for the Hall either (nor should they be).
The fact that you mention him as a defensive specialist just helps make my point. he wasn't just a defensive specialist, he was the defensive specialist. Again, go read what other players who played against him had to say. They thought a hell of a lot more highly of him than you do.Gainey was the defensive specialist on a team that had Guy Lafleur, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Larry Robinson, and was backstopped by Ken Dryden.
I think both of them were fairly decent defensive forwards, and neither one was half as good as Bob Gainey defensively.Sorry, but I can't help but view him as the Kris Draper / John Madden of his era.
I think Zetterberg goes to the HoF quicker than some here want to realize. [I have him as a lock to get in.]interesting comparison: if kopitar retired tomorrow, do we think he gets in?
1003 gp, 312 goals, 888 points
two stanley cups, leading scorer in the playoffs both years
two selke trophies
do guys like zetterberg, marleau, and kopitar get into the hall of fame or the hall of really really good?
kopitar still has an eight year contract though, so i guess we’ll see what happens.